Bills 2010 Draft... really terrible

[spartacus]

Are you seriously this clueless about Gronk's history? Or are you just parodying the rest of the dummies?

bigger question is -

 

for a team with no TE for the last decade, why didn't that talent expert Buddy draft Hernandez in the 4th round

[thebandit27]

At the risk of bringing even more logic into the discussion (attention Coach Tuesday, I'm still waiting on that response as to why you felt--at the time--JPP was the best overall prospect back in 2010), go take a look at every other team's 2010 draft class and compare it to Buffalo's:

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2010/tracker#dt-by-round-input:1/dt-tabs:dt-by-team/dt-by-team-input:car

 

Teams that are currently starting more than 1 draft pick:

 

Arizona - D. Williams, O. Schoefield, J. Skelton

Atlanta - Weatherspoon, Peters, Hawley

Cincinnnati - Gresham, Atkins

Cleveland - Haden, Ward

Dallas - Bryant, Lee

Denver - Thomas, Beadles, Decker

Green Bay - Bulaga, Burnett

Houston - K. Jackson, D. Sharpton (assuming he wins the ILB job)

KC - Berry, Asomoah, K. Lewis

Miami - Odrick, Misi

NE - McCourty, Gronkowski, Spikes, Hernandez

NO - Robinson, Jimmy Graham

NYG - JPP, L. Joseph

Oakland - McClain, Houston, Veldheer

Pit - Pouncey, A. Brown

SD - Mathews, D. Butler

SF - David, Iupati, Bowman

Sea - Okung, E. Thomas, Chancellor

St. L - Bradford, Saffold

TB - McCoy, M. Williams

Ten - D. Morgan, A. Verner

Was - T. Williams, P. Riley

 

That's 22 teams with at least 2 starters from there draft (16 of which have only 2). The rest have 1 or zero.

 

For Buffalo, Moats is likely to be the only starter. I think most of us agree that Spiller--based on his last 6 starts from last-season, is starting-caliber. Comparing Buffalo to the rest of the league, it's not a stark contrast.

 

In fact, the stark contrast is between teams like the Jets, who netted zero starters and almost no role players either, and teams like the Patriots, who netted 2 pro bowlers and 2 other starters.

 

bigger question is -

 

for a team with no TE for the last decade, why didn't that talent expert Buddy draft Hernandez in the 4th round

 

Because Nix doesn't draft players with drug issues in their background.

 

We really need A. Williams and Sheppard to step up this year. Otherwise, the 2011 draft will be a bust other than Darreus, who was a no brainer of a pick.

 

Not exactly fair, as Hairston looks like he could be a solid RT and Searcy is going to see a lot of time in the dime defense.

[BuffBill]

bigger question is -

 

for a team with no TE for the last decade, why didn't that talent expert Buddy draft Hernandez in the 4th round

That's easy. We needed a receiver who only started a part of one season at that football powerhouse Connecticut.

[Jauronimo]

Everything I've read about that draft class suggests that Modrak was still running the show, as he had been head of scouting all year. Nix took over as GM 12/31/2009, 3 and a half months before the 2010 draft. Perhaps buddy was making the final call, but why keep Modrak on through that draft if he was just a lame duck with no say?

 

My view has been that Gailey heavily influenced the Spiller pick, and the rest of the draft was pulling off Modrak's board. In evaluating Nix's draft history I start with 2011. If there's any link that suggests otherwise I would to see it.

[spartacus]

Everything I've read about that draft class suggests that Modrak was still running the show, as he had been head of scouting all year. Nix took over as GM 12/31/2009, 3 and a half months before the 2010 draft. Perhaps buddy was making the final call, but why keep Modrak on through that draft if he was just a lame duck with no say?

 

My view has been that Gailey heavily influenced the Spiller pick, and the rest of the draft was pulling off Modrak's board. In evaluating Nix's draft history I start with 2011. If there's any link that suggests otherwise I would to see it.

 

Nix is an NFL talent guy with over 50 years of experience

he was brought in specifically because the Bills have been inept under Modrak in drafting playmakers and quality starters

 

yet - he still allowed Modrak to run the draft after he had 3.5 months with the Bills

 

Buddy is either really bad on picking players (his draft sucked) or he is really bad at picking employees (letting the inept Modrak run the draft) - based on what Chan and his staff has not accomplished - it may be the latter

 

still waiting for Chan for get close to Dick's win count

[thewildrabbit]

Technically, they have spent 3 First Round picks on QBs in the last decade....

One for the Drew Bledsoe Trade

One for the draft pick for J.P Losman and One for the trade.

 

They have also spent 1st round picks on RBs exclusively in McGahee, Lynch and Spiller and have got nothing out of any of them except for some stupid low round draft picks.

Jeez, my head was going to explode thinking that the Bills wasted TWO 1st rounders on JP. They really only wasted a 1st and 2nd on him

 

 

Still, only one QB drafted in the first round since Jim Kelly...considering bad QB play is the primary reason the Bills have been bad for so long. I suppose this franchise values DB's & RB's more then QB's for some inexplicable reason

[peterpan]

I remember hearing reports that teams found issues with Troup's back during their physicals. Maybe Kiper said it on ESPN but his back was an issue around ddraft time.

 

Ironically, the Bills Medical staff cleared Troup and not Gronkowski......

[OCinBuffalo]

Huh, I guess NFL teams keep the director of player development and a scouting staff of 10-15 guys on the job, year round, why? Just for shucks and yucks, since according to your great knowledge and acumen about football ops a new hire could walk in New Years eve, interview and hire a coaching staff, and single-handedly have plenty of time to evaluate all the current players, evaluate the draft and build a draft board - y'know, the work the coaches and staff were hired to spend the year doing - in 3 months.

 

Thank you for setting us all straight.

See, this right here is why I like this board. I know, that I be away from a thread for a few days...and somebody else will deal with the misguided in my place.

You are welcome.

 

Are teams supposed to fire or lay off their workforce during the off season or do they go by the evaluations in 2010 they made before the 2009 season?

 

 

Like I pointed out, Thomas Dimitroff was hired in Atlanta in the exact same time frame. They hired a new HC, turned over the team along with a new coaching staff and then turned out an 11-5 season.

 

""I'd have to say 99% of all GM's are fired and hired at the end of the NFL season. I don't see the good GM's failing in their first year like Nix did. Case in point Thomas Dimitroff was hired by the Falcons on Jan 13th 2008, hired HC Mike Smith,and the Falcons went 11-5 that first year. They didn't get worse like the Buffalo Bills did after they hired Nix. The difference between the two is Nix only need concern himself with the football operations!""

 

Want more then one case in point? NY Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum was hired on Feb 19th 1997 after a 4-12 season. The Jets went 9-7 the very next year. The Dolphins did the same thing in 2007 with a new Pres / GM staff and HC they went from 1-15 to 11-5.

 

Bills fans can keep blaming Modrak for that 2010 draft, IDC. Nix was the GM at that time and he takes 100% responsibility for a draft under his watch.

Dude You're using Mike Tannenbaum to make your point now?

 

That thing in your hands? It's a shovel, son. Put it down, and climb out.

 

You're argument is illogical, and is made that way because teams DO have 10-15 guy scouting departments, and the work product that they create does exist, and it does take an entire year to create it.

 

Those are facts. It's possible for you to make a new argument along the same lines as your first one. Just take the above facts into account.

 

One rational conclusion based on those facts is that they couldn't have fired Modrak prior to the draft, because they would lose all the work product/draft charts etc.

 

What is another, more likely explanation?

[Jauronimo]

Nix is an NFL talent guy with over 50 years of experience

he was brought in specifically because the Bills have been inept under Modrak in drafting playmakers and quality starters

 

yet - he still allowed Modrak to run the draft after he had 3.5 months with the Bills

 

Buddy is either really bad on picking players (his draft sucked) or he is really bad at picking employees (letting the inept Modrak run the draft) - based on what Chan and his staff has not accomplished - it may be the latter

 

still waiting for Chan for get close to Dick's win count

Should Nix have scrapped Modrak's work in favor of no plan whatsoever?

 

Let me offer a third option. You're conclusions over simplify the matter, and Nix as a regional scout until 12/31/2009 could not have been expected to build a draft board in 3.5 months. Can that version of events be ruled out?

Edited August 27, 2012 by Jauronimo

[spartacus]

Should Nix have scrapped Modrak's work in favor of no plan whatsoever?

 

Let me offer a third option. You're conclusions over simplify the matter, and Nix as a regional scout until 12/31/2009 could not have been expected to build a draft board in 3.5 months. Can that version of events be ruled out?

 

I know this may be a tough concept to handle

 

but since Nix was appointed GM -

1. he could have used all of Modrak's data and molded his own draft board.

2. since he was GM, he could have actually stood tall and made the picks- instead of hiding behind Modrak

 

Either he screwed the picks or he screwed up letting Modrak make the picks

He was GM - the draft is on him

Edited August 27, 2012 by spartacus

[Jauronimo]

I know this may be a tough concept to handle

 

but since Nix was appointed GM -

1. he could have used all of Modrak's data and molded his own draft board.

2. since he was GM, he could have actually stood tall and made the picks- instead of hiding behind Modrak

 

Either he screwed the picks or he screwed up letting Modrak make the picks

He was GM - the draft is on him

Agreed, its a very simple concept. Its just not as plausible or logical as the one I presented. Rephrase it again if you wish.

 

Heres another simple concept: Free pizza. Based on the ease of comprehension, pizza must be free, wouldn't you say?

[Sisyphean Bills]

I know this may be a tough concept to handle

 

but since Nix was appointed GM -

1. he could have used all of Modrak's data and molded his own draft board.

2. since he was GM, he could have actually stood tall and made the picks- instead of hiding behind Modrak

 

Either he screwed the picks or he screwed up letting Modrak make the picks

He was GM - the draft is on him

 

What was Nix doing the year before? He was National Scout for the Buffalo Bills. Was he just cashing those checks and watching the Jerry Springer Show? With a title like National Scout, you'd think he'd be watching a ton of film on prospects from all across the nation. To imply that he had to go completely with Modrak's opinion on everything suggests that he either wasn't doing anything in his position as National Scout, he couldn't form his own opinions, or he was completely passive when he assumed his leadership role to the point of leaving the rudder in the hands of someone else.

[spartacus]

Should Nix have scrapped Modrak's work in favor of no plan whatsoever?

 

Let me offer a third option. You're conclusions over simplify the matter, and Nix as a regional scout until 12/31/2009 could not have been expected to build a draft board in 3.5 months. Can that version of events be ruled out?

 

you are basing your entire argument on bogus info

it does not take 3.5 months to build a draft board

 

the research may take a while -but the board is put together in a month or 2 while meeting with all of the scouts.

if Nix could not handle this, then he has no business being the GM

 

which is probably the case, since his entire work history was as a scout - with no responsibility for actually making the picks and building a roster.

 

2010 was just a do over while Buddy learned the ropes

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

What was Nix doing the year before? He was National Scout for the Buffalo Bills. Was he just cashing those checks and watching the Jerry Springer Show? With a title like National Scout, you'd think he'd be watching a ton of film on prospects from all across the nation. To imply that he had to go completely with Modrak's opinion on everything suggests that he either wasn't doing anything in his position as National Scout, he couldn't form his own opinions, or he was completely passive when he assumed his leadership role to the point of leaving the rudder in the hands of someone else.

Buddy was GM therefore he is ultimately responsible. Not crrzy about his picks either. Even I could stumble into Dareus and Gilmore....

[Jauronimo]

you are basing your entire argument on bogus info

it does not take 3.5 months to build a draft board

 

the research may take a while -but the board is put together in a month or 2 while meeting with all of the scouts.

if Nix could not handle this, then he has no business being the GM

 

which is probably the case, since his entire work history was as a scout - with no responsibility for actually making the picks and building a roster.

 

2010 was just a do over while Buddy learned the ropes

Building the board depends on the research performed. If Modrak, and Modrak's team (which was subsequently dismantled) put all the info together then garbage in, garbage out. 3.5 months before the draft you don't start from scratch.

 

Given the night and day contrast between the last two drafts and the 2010 draft, why is it so hard to believe that the director of scouting was heavily involved in the 2010 debacle?

[OCinBuffalo]

Building the board depends on the research performed. If Modrak, and Modrak's team (which was subsequently dismantled) put all the info together then garbage in, garbage out. 3.5 months before the draft you don't start from scratch.

 

Given the night and day contrast between the last two drafts and the 2010 draft, why is it so hard to believe that the director of scouting was heavily involved in the 2010 debacle?

But....they will use the "draft order excuse/anybody would have picked Dareus" argument. This way, no matter what Buddy does...he is either stupid or it was a 'given', or "given to him" ...and they are always right.

 

I love how we are supposed to not give Buddy credit for picking Dareus, since "everybody" would have done that.

 

Apparently these guys weren't around for all the Von Miller/"reach for my favorite QB"/"yeah, but Nick Fairley has more talent" threads.

 

I love how "obvious" Gilmore is now...given the sheer volume of Keuchly and LT threads(Martin/Trade up for Kalil , etc.).

 

Yeah...it was "obvious" that we could take Gilmore, and our starting LT would be nicely gift wrapped, and ready to be taken in the 2nd.

 

The only person who knew that....and SAID SO? Buddy Nix.

 

But keep telling yourselves how you knew it all along, and so did everybody else. Jesus, we are now way far into ridiculous land.

 

........................................

 

What I can't seem to understand:

the line play we saw in the Pittsburgh game, on both sides of the ball, was easily the best its been in literally 10 years. We physically mauled the PIttsburgh Steelers in the first quarter....and then shut the run game down, and pulled Fred out. Defensively was even worse...against the Pittsburgh Steelers.

 

...yet we have clowns who are unwilling to give the guy who put these lines together...credit for anything? Unmitigated morons.

Edited August 27, 2012 by OCinBuffalo

[Mr. WEO]

Are you seriously this clueless about Gronk's history? Or are you just parodying the rest of the dummies?

 

No, I'm quite serious. Why did BB draft him ahead of Hernandez? If every team thought of Gronk as the Bills did, why did the pats take him so high? PFT quoted one team official before the draft as saying:

 

“He had surgery to repair a problem,” the latter source said. “It was repaired and he is ready to play. Only a team that wants him to drop would put out anything negative about the kid.”

 

I'm guessing that Nix didn't even bother checking Gronk out because he had no intention in drafting (or, apparenty, any use for) a TE. Instead, he was bent on picking...a nose takcle (!) for the shiny new 3-4 defense that 3-4 guru George Edwards, his new hire at DC, was about to install (what could go wrong??).

 

After that poorly conceived plan was quickly abandoned and Troup, even if healthy, would be at best somewhere down the depth chart at DT, Buddy leaves it for guys like you to bail him out on the Gronk whiff: "hey man, he HAD to take Troup--you know, for the 3-4...."

 

While you're at it--how about Easley before Hernandez.....Buddy got a second swing at TE and he whiffed again with the one year wonder from the bigtime basketball school.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Mr. WEO

[OCinBuffalo]

No, I'm quite serious. Why did BB draft him ahead of Hernandez? If every team thought of Gronk as the Bills did, why did the pats take him so high? PFT quoted one team official before the draft as saying:

 

“He had surgery to repair a problem,” the latter source said. “It was repaired and he is ready to play. Only a team that wants him to drop would put out anything negative about the kid.”

 

I'm guessing that Nix didn't even bother checking Gronk out because he had no intention in drafting (or, apparenty, any use for) a TE. Instead, he was bent on picking...a nose takcle (!) for the shiny new 3-4 defense that 3-4 guru George Edwards, his new hire at DC, was about to install (what could go wrong??).

 

After that poorly conceived plan was quickly abandoned and Troup, even if healthy, would be at best somewhere down the depth chart at DT, Buddy leaves it for guys like you to bail him out on the Gronk whiff: "hey man, he HAD to take Troup--you know, for the 3-4...."

 

While you're at it--how about Easley before Hernandez.....Buddy got a second swing at TE and he whiffed again with the one year wonder from the bigtime basketball school.

What was wrong with taking a nose tackle high when you are switching to a 3-4? Objectively, now? If I'm a new GM, and we have to switch to that D? That's the first thing I'd draft if it's there at my pick. You take 100 teams, that's a perfectly acceptable tactic....but only with the Bills it's bad?

 

Explain that better, because you are starting to sound irrational here.

 

Meanwhile:

The more time that goes by the more Edwards looks like a "Rooney Rule/Affirmative Action" hire that was kinda forced on Buddy/Chan. Not saying Chan(Chan is the HC, right?) can't hire whoever he wants...but...also not saying somebody in the NFL front office didn't influence/pick up the phone and push for that.

 

The reason is: boy, didn't they move quick to extricated him and his defense after year 1? Did Chan have any coaching history with Edwards....like he does with Wanny, Lee, pretty much everybody else on the staff?

 

Hey, I could be wrong, but "Occam's razor" says: affirmative action hire.

Edited August 27, 2012 by OCinBuffalo

[K-9]

At the risk of bringing even more logic into the discussion (attention Coach Tuesday, I'm still waiting on that response as to why you felt--at the time--JPP was the best overall prospect back in 2010), go take a look at every other team's 2010 draft class and compare it to Buffalo's:

 

http://www.nfl.com/d...-team-input:car

 

Teams that are currently starting more than 1 draft pick:

 

Arizona - D. Williams, O. Schoefield, J. Skelton

Atlanta - Weatherspoon, Peters, Hawley

Cincinnnati - Gresham, Atkins

Cleveland - Haden, Ward

Dallas - Bryant, Lee

Denver - Thomas, Beadles, Decker

Green Bay - Bulaga, Burnett

Houston - K. Jackson, D. Sharpton (assuming he wins the ILB job)

KC - Berry, Asomoah, K. Lewis

Miami - Odrick, Misi

NE - McCourty, Gronkowski, Spikes, Hernandez

NO - Robinson, Jimmy Graham

NYG - JPP, L. Joseph

Oakland - McClain, Houston, Veldheer

Pit - Pouncey, A. Brown

SD - Mathews, D. Butler

SF - David, Iupati, Bowman

Sea - Okung, E. Thomas, Chancellor

St. L - Bradford, Saffold

TB - McCoy, M. Williams

Ten - D. Morgan, A. Verner

Was - T. Williams, P. Riley

 

That's 22 teams with at least 2 starters from there draft (16 of which have only 2). The rest have 1 or zero.

 

For Buffalo, Moats is likely to be the only starter. I think most of us agree that Spiller--based on his last 6 starts from last-season, is starting-caliber. Comparing Buffalo to the rest of the league, it's not a stark contrast.

 

In fact, the stark contrast is between teams like the Jets, who netted zero starters and almost no role players either, and teams like the Patriots, who netted 2 pro bowlers and 2 other starters.

 

Good stuff. And I'm not surprised that Team Storm Cloud hasn't responded. They can't. They will just assume that Buffalo is some sort of outlier when it comes to drafting players that can't make the roster and actually start. As you illustrate, teams pretty much operate within the averages which really shouldn't surprise most people. There is very little difference about how teams go about finding players. And it damn well helps to be lucky.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited August 27, 2012 by K-9

[LiterateStylish]

After Troup going on IR for the season I was just thinking back to how awful Nix's first draft was for this team... I mean it is really terrible.

 

Spiller - hasn't produced enough at this point to justify the pick although a lot of upside here (best pick)

Troup - IR for 2nd straight season

Carrington - likely to be cut this year, never done anything as a Bill

Easley - injured the entire time he has been on the team, likely to be cut

Wang - trash

Moats - should make the team (2nd best pick.. not saying much)

Batten - likely to be cut

Levi Brown - trash

Calloway - trash

 

After cuts we are likely to only have Spiller and Moats playing this year... what a disaster this was.

 

Your thoughts?

 

So 2 out of 9 turned out to be usable players. That's a 22% success rate.

 

Now, who would you consider a good drafting team? The Patriots? Lets look at the Patriots 2009 draft.

 

Patrick Chung - Starter

Ron Brace - 3rd String

Darius Butler - CUT

Sebastian Vollmer- Starter

Brandon Tate - CUT

Tyrone Mckenzie - CUT

Rich Ohrnberger - CUT

George Bussey - CUT

Jake Ingram - CUT

Myron Pryor - 4th String

Julian Edelman - 3rd String

Darryl Richard - CUT

 

So the Patriots were 2 out of 12. Which is a 16% success rate.