USADA to strip Lance Armstrong of Tour titles, ban him for life

[shrader]

My friend, you dont know LA very well. The guy has LIVED to win those tours. That was his LIFE. His reputation is shot. AND...he cannot race moving forward, something he was trying to do, getting back into Triathlons. He was scheduled to race the Kona Ironman this year before he was banned. So he did have a financial stake in this. Being stripped of his titles and being banned from future racing is BEYOND huge to him.

 

How does all of that compare to what he has gained already? I'm guess it's pocket change, but I know absolutely nothing about those races.

[NoSaint]

 

 

It's not exactly a life or death fight though that would keep him out of jail or anything serious like that. The only thing he loses if he's ever proven to be guilty of doping is some endorsements, but is he even getting much in endorsements anymore? He made a ton of money over the years thanks to those races and they're not going to take it away at this point. They may has well be accusing him of peeing in a pool when he was 10. It has very little impact on him moving forward in life.

 

and going through years of publicly battling it, court appearances, being run through the mud by media, and even if he wins this time it must feel like itll just happen again given how many times hes been through allegations..... i could see someone saying screw this, im going to go live my life, do what you want to the record books.

 

and again, ill say its VERY possible that he did this.... but him not fighting doesnt prove it.

 

 

i cant claim any insight into lance armstrongs personal thoughts, but i could see someone wanting to just move on.

Edited August 24, 2012 by NoSaint

[K-9]

Money can't buy you love, But, it can buy the best masking agents on the planet. I was a believer in Armstrong's witch hunt theory early on. No more though. The use of PEDS is a epedimic in all sports. But, really does it matter anymore? It is just a form of entertainment.

 

I went and watched Bonds in his last year. At least 40 games in SF. Everyone knew he was juiced, and as important a douche. But, it was fun watching pitchers jam him and Bonds knocking it into the drink. It was entertaining and i got my $$$$ worth. What segment of sports, or business, or politics isn't filled with phonies, and cheaters anymore? I'm used to it now.

 

This is not an insult to you, but this is the saddest commentary in the entire thread.

[The Poojer]

chicks dig the long ball...

 

Money can't buy you love, But, it can buy the best masking agents on the planet. I was a believer in Armstrong's witch hunt theory early on. No more though. The use of PEDS is a epedimic in all sports. But, really does it matter anymore? It is just a form of entertainment.

 

I went and watched Bonds in his last year. At least 40 games in SF. Everyone knew he was juiced, and as important a douche. But, it was fun watching pitchers jam him and Bonds knocking it into the drink. It was entertaining and i got my $$$$ worth. What segment of sports, or business, or politics isn't filled with phonies, and cheaters anymore? I'm used to it now.

[RkFast]

“Numerous witnesses provided evidence to USADA based on personal knowledge acquired, either through direct observation of doping activity by Armstrong, or through Armstrong’s admissions of doping to them that Armstrong used EPO, blood transfusions, testosterone and cortisone during the period from before 1998 through 2005, and that he had previously used EPO, testosterone and hGH through 1996. Witnesses also provided evidence that Lance Armstrong gave to them, encouraged them to use and administered doping products or methods, including EPO, blood transfusions, testosterone and cortisone during the period from 1999 through 2005. Additionally, scientific data showed Mr. Armstrong’s use of blood manipulation including EPO or blood transfusions during Mr. Armstrong’s comeback to cycling in the 2009 Tour de France.”

 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/usada-bans-armstrong-for-life-disqualifies-all-results-since-1998

[Chef Jim]

“Numerous witnesses provided evidence to USADA based on personal knowledge acquired, either through direct observation of doping activity by Armstrong, or through Armstrong’s admissions of doping to them that Armstrong used EPO, blood transfusions, testosterone and cortisone during the period from before 1998 through 2005, and that he had previously used EPO, testosterone and hGH through 1996. Witnesses also provided evidence that Lance Armstrong gave to them, encouraged them to use and administered doping products or methods, including EPO, blood transfusions, testosterone and cortisone during the period from 1999 through 2005. Additionally, scientific data showed Mr. Armstrong’s use of blood manipulation including EPO or blood transfusions during Mr. Armstrong’s comeback to cycling in the 2009 Tour de France.”

 

http://www.cyclingne...ults-since-1998

 

Is it "illegal" to dope only during the race or between races as well? Because in your quote above there is no mention of him doping during the actual race.

[RkFast]

Is it "illegal" to dope only during the race or between races as well? Because in your quote above there is no mention of him doping during the actual race.

 

Illegal at any time.

[Kevin]

Illegal at any time.

 

So there is "scientific" evidence to show that Armstrong did indeed use PED's? Then why did he pass every drug test he took? I don't get it.

 

Also, since the USADA is going after a retired athlete and his titles then I guess that sets a whole new precedent. Micky Mantle used amphetamines which undoubtedly gave him an advantage over his competitors then his records and titles should be yanked. I only used Micky Mantle as an example, but I'm sure the list goes on and on and on and on and on.

 

At what point should we just let it go? Seriously the federal government can't find something else to spend its hard earned money on, like say, a national deficit? Or a war, or Obamacare, or, ice cream?

Edited August 24, 2012 by Kevin

[KD in CA]

So there is "scientific" evidence to show that Armstrong did indeed use PED's? Then why did he pass every drug test he took? I don't get it.

 

Also, since the USADA is going after a retired athlete and his titles then I guess that sets a whole new precedent. Micky Mantle used amphetamines which undoubtedly gave him an advantage over his competitors then his records and titles should be yanked. I only used Micky Mantle as an example, but I'm sure the list goes on and on and on and on and on.

 

At what point should we just let it go? Seriously the federal government can't find something else to spend its hard earned money on, like say, a national deficit? Or a war, or Obamacare, or, ice cream?

 

Not enough people stand to have their personal vendettas and jealousy satasfied by stripping the Mick of his records. But that !@#$er Lance Armstrong? Oh yeah, it's payback time baby!

[Kevin]

Not enough people stand to have their personal vendettas and jealousy satasfied by stripping the Mick of his records. But that !@#$er Lance Armstrong? Oh yeah, it's payback time baby!

 

This absolutely amazes me. The media built him up by covering cycling when most of us could've cared less about the sport. Cycling rallied around him and used his name to promote the sport, and now they are doing all they can to demolish everything that he did and was. And for what? I'm almost certain that most Americans view that cycling as a whole is one of the most dirtiest sports around. Why draw the unwanted attention? Hell, why even have the Tour de France anyway? I remember a couple of years ago during the Tour de California (I think that was what it is called). One of the stages stopped in my hometown of Modesto, CA. I had jury duty that day and when I was done I went out to watch Lance Armstrong finish the stage. I couldn't tell you the name of another rider on the circuit at the time, but I sure knew who Lance Armstrong was. I saw him ride by, and left.

[DC Tom]

Illegal at any time.

 

Even illegal as part of, say, cancer treatments?

[RkFast]

Even illegal as part of, say, cancer treatments?

 

That, Im not sure of.

 

So there is "scientific" evidence to show that Armstrong did indeed use PED's? Then why did he pass every drug test he took? I don't get it.

 

Long story short, if you know the threshold for a postive test is X, you "dope" up to X minus 1. Small amounts, but STILL enough to make a difference,

[IDBillzFan]

I'm genuinely surprised to find people arguing about this like it's a political hot potato. Doesn't it seem a little obvious to everyone that if not for Lance Armstrong, you could count the number of Americans interested in bike racing on the hand of a bad woodshop teacher?

 

So we take the only person capable of making anyone truly care about this ridiculously boring sport, and strip him of everything because he doesn't want to fight the battle any more?

 

Just seem odd.

[NoSaint]

I just saw a great piece on deadspin to put into perspective how ridiculous this whole sport is currently.....

 

if lance is stripped of his titles, the second place finisher in EVERY SINGLE RACE has doping issues. although one was cleared, after he was banned for a year, and one was Jan Ulrich showing up 3 times. i just cant fathom why, even if true, they wouldnt be sweeping this under the rug (not saying its right to do, but its what youd expect all these years later, with such issues even in the runners up)

 

 

1999: Alex Zülle (confessed to EPO use)

2000: Jan Ullrich (suspended from 2006 Tour; banned this year and stripped of all results from 2005 on)

2001: Jan Ullrich

2002: Joseba Beloki (kept out of 2006 Tour while under doping investigation, later cleared)

2003: Jan Ullrich

2004: Andreas Klöden (accused of illegal blood transfusion in the 2006 Tour)

2005: Ivan Basso (confessed to attempted doping, suspended)

 

http://deadspin.com/5937591/all-seven-of-lance-armstrongs-tour-de-france-wins-would-now-go-to-cyclists-with-doping-scandals-of-their-own?tag=lance-armstrong

Edited August 24, 2012 by NoSaint

[shrader]

I just saw a great piece on deadspin to put into perspective how ridiculous this whole sport is currently.....

 

if lance is stripped of his titles, the second place finisher in EVERY SINGLE RACE has doping issues.

 

 

1999: Alex Zülle (confessed to EPO use)

2000: Jan Ullrich (suspended from 2006 Tour; banned this year and stripped of all results from 2005 on)

2001: Jan Ullrich

2002: Joseba Beloki (kept out of 2006 Tour while under doping investigation, later cleared)

2003: Jan Ullrich

2004: Andreas Klöden (accused of illegal blood transfusion in the 2006 Tour)

2005: Ivan Basso (confessed to attempted doping, suspended)

 

http://deadspin.com/...lance-armstrong

 

If they keep this going I may wind up being crowned champion.

[RkFast]

I'm genuinely surprised to find people arguing about this like it's a political hot potato. Doesn't it seem a little obvious to everyone that if not for Lance Armstrong, you could count the number of Americans interested in bike racing on the hand of a bad woodshop teacher?

 

So we take the only person capable of making anyone truly care about this ridiculously boring sport, and strip him of everything because he doesn't want to fight the battle any more?

 

Just seem odd.

 

Just becuase he increased the interest in the sport, that doesnt exempt him for his crimes. And theres a bit of a disconnect in your theroy in that LA has been retired for years now and although he recruited many for the Spandex Mafia, present coompany included, cycling is still enjoying record growth and the races are bigger and more populated than ever.

 

I just saw a great piece on deadspin to put into perspective how ridiculous this whole sport is currently.....

 

if lance is stripped of his titles, the second place finisher in EVERY SINGLE RACE has doping issues.

 

 

1999: Alex Zülle (confessed to EPO use)

2000: Jan Ullrich (suspended from 2006 Tour; banned this year and stripped of all results from 2005 on)

2001: Jan Ullrich

2002: Joseba Beloki (kept out of 2006 Tour while under doping investigation, later cleared)

2003: Jan Ullrich

2004: Andreas Klöden (accused of illegal blood transfusion in the 2006 Tour)

2005: Ivan Basso (confessed to attempted doping, suspended)

 

http://deadspin.com/...lance-armstrong

 

SECOND place? How about down to like, TENTH?

[NoSaint]

 

 

Just becuase he increased the interest in the sport, that doesnt exempt him for his crimes. And theres a bit of a disconnect in your theroy in that LA has been retired for years now and although he recruited many for the Spandex Mafia, present coompany included, cycling is still enjoying record growth and the races are bigger and more populated than ever.

 

 

 

SECOND place? How about down to like, TENTH?

 

feel free to share the depth of this scandal! whats the story on the guys finishing, 3rd, 4th, 5th in those years.

 

as someone that hasnt followed cycling its like watching a car accident right now.

[Chef Jim]

So there is "scientific" evidence to show that Armstrong did indeed use PED's? Then why did he pass every drug test he took? I don't get it.

 

Also, since the USADA is going after a retired athlete and his titles then I guess that sets a whole new precedent. Micky Mantle used amphetamines which undoubtedly gave him an advantage over his competitors then his records and titles should be yanked. I only used Micky Mantle as an example, but I'm sure the list goes on and on and on and on and on.

 

At what point should we just let it go? Seriously the federal government can't find something else to spend its hard earned money on, like say, a national deficit? Or a war, or Obamacare, or, ice cream?

 

Its hard earned money??

Edited August 24, 2012 by Chef Jim

[RkFast]

feel free to share the depth of this scandal! whats the story on the guys finishing, 3rd, 4th, 5th in those years.

 

as someone that hasnt followed cycling its like watching a car accident right now.

 

Its as simple as this.....like baseball had its steroids period in the late 90s and early 2000s, cycling had the same. Riders dope to this day, but from about 1995 until about about...oh...2009, drug use was rampant.

 

Frankie Andreu said it best. He was a support rider for Lance and said how one year he was riding in the front and the next year, the same clowns who couldnt touch him were now doped up and blowing his doors off and he had to do drugs not to win, but just to stay employed. Thats a powerful statement.

 

Jonathan Vaughters who was also a Lance teammate and now runs his own squad had a good piece on it in the NYT.

 

http://www.nytimes.c...?pagewanted=all

 

The thing is...they were ALL doping. So the best guys were still on top, no matter what. The difference is for the lower tier guys.

 

Im not condoning this behavior, or excusing it. Im just trying to show the rationale for it. Like Chris Rock said.."Im not saying its right, but I understand."

Edited August 24, 2012 by RkFast

[IDBillzFan]

...cycling is still enjoying record growth and the races are bigger and more populated than ever.

 

I'm sure that's probably considered true in a few places, but honestly, it sounds a lot like what I hear about American soccer. I keep hearing how it's bigger and more popular than ever, and yet the only time I've ever, in my life, been anywhere close to a discussion about professional soccer was when my neighbor mentioned she once saw the Spice Girls in concert.