Punch Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 If my son was an adult and needed it to go pro I would no problem, the chance to play a sport for a living and make millions doesn't come around every day. However, I find this to be problematic. If your son (or anyone) needs to take PEDs of any kind to "go pro" then he is simply not good enough to play professional sports. Taking the opportunity away from a better athlete is not ethical--- it's kind of ****ty. On one hand, I feel that there must be a level playing field, so if they were theoretically legalized, it would be theoretically acceptable. But on the other hand, I really like the concept of regular human beings born with a certain degree of natural athletic ability training themselves as close to the peak of perfection in their given sport and competing against one another is a beautiful thing. Things like stealing signs, or using spit to make a fastball jump are in the acceptable category in one sense, but chemically altering your body's makeup to unfairly stack yourself against another athlete is like watching the X-Men fight a group of firemen. They're both "heroes" but the firemen have a competitive disadvantage from the word go.
K-9 Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 13 and 15 You're a lucky man. I wish for them a long and happy life. They have a better chance of that if they don't take steroids for years to remain competitive in a sport.
RealityCheck Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 This thread is absolutely hysterical. The people generally against steroid use ASSUME that todays game is predominantly played by clean athletes. All I can say to that is ignorance is most definitely bliss. The speed at which athletes come back from ACL tears alone should waive a red flag but of course it does not. But hey, not so long ago the Earth was flat. The destructive force of denial far outweighs the side effects of steroid use. Eventually everyone is worm food as it is. By the way, how about a discussion on the LEGAL anti-inflamatories used throughout the league and their long term effects on athletes and their offspring.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 25, 2012 Author Posted August 25, 2012 However, I find this to be problematic. If your son (or anyone) needs to take PEDs of any kind to "go pro" then he is simply not good enough to play professional sports. Taking the opportunity away from a better athlete is not ethical--- it's kind of ****ty. On one hand, I feel that there must be a level playing field, so if they were theoretically legalized, it would be theoretically acceptable. But on the other hand, I really like the concept of regular human beings born with a certain degree of natural athletic ability training themselves as close to the peak of perfection in their given sport and competing against one another is a beautiful thing. Things like stealing signs, or using spit to make a fastball jump are in the acceptable category in one sense, but chemically altering your body's makeup to unfairly stack yourself against another athlete is like watching the X-Men fight a group of firemen. They're both "heroes" but the firemen have a competitive disadvantage from the word go. So many athletes use that your first statement (don't take this the wrong way) is naive. Your second brings an interesting point I haven't thought about, but what if firefighters used PEDs, would more lives get saved? I would say yes. You're a lucky man. I wish for them a long and happy life. They have a better chance of that if they don't take steroids for years to remain competitive in a sport. Do you mean that eventually they should take them?
Punch Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 This thread is absolutely hysterical. The people generally against steroid use ASSUME that todays game is predominantly played by clean athletes. All I can say to that is ignorance is most definitely bliss. The speed at which athletes come back from ACL tears alone should waive a red flag but of course it does not. But hey, not so long ago the Earth was flat. The destructive force of denial far outweighs the side effects of steroid use. Eventually everyone is worm food as it is. By the way, how about a discussion on the LEGAL anti-inflamatories used throughout the league and their long term effects on athletes and their offspring. How many posters in this thread think any pro sport is free of PEDs or other forms of fraud? Many wish that to be the case but I'd guess very few think it to be literally true
K-9 Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 This thread is absolutely hysterical. The people generally against steroid use ASSUME that todays game is predominantly played by clean athletes. All I can say to that is ignorance is most definitely bliss. The speed at which athletes come back from ACL tears alone should waive a red flag but of course it does not. But hey, not so long ago the Earth was flat. The destructive force of denial far outweighs the side effects of steroid use. Eventually everyone is worm food as it is. By the way, how about a discussion on the LEGAL anti-inflamatories used throughout the league and their long term effects on athletes and their offspring. Granted, not all ACL tears are created equally but this is a poor argument because the biggest contributor to improved recovery times for ACL tears is the sheer enhancement of surgical procedures. It is just so much less invasive. Secondly, the post-operative rehab has also improved greatly. Ironically, some forms of steroids are prescribed to aid in the healing process but only for the duration prescribed. Lastly, an athlete already abusing steroids is NOT aided by that fact in the event he tears his ACL. He's not using a kind of steroid that aids in the recovery process anyway. You make a good point about anti-inflammatories. So many athletes use that your first statement (don't take this the wrong way) is naive. Your second brings an interesting point I haven't thought about, but what if firefighters used PEDs, would more lives get saved? I would say yes. Do you mean that eventually they should take them? No, quite the contrary.
kasper13 Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 Why stop at steroids and other PED's? Don't ban anything. Narcotics? Sure. Get wired on blow before the game. Tired at halftime? Handful of amps, Can't concentrate? Take some Adderall. Can't calm down after the game? Couple of joints. Bigger, faster, stronger, meaner, tougher. Whatever it takes to play. All that stuff goes on NOW. Nobody knows what guys take or don't take unless they fail a drug test or three. If 10% of the players are 100% clean, I'd be shocked.
You herd it hear last Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 Thanks Lance, for this thread. Livestrong... lol
BillsFanM.D. Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 This thread is absolutely hysterical. The people generally against steroid use ASSUME that todays game is predominantly played by clean athletes. All I can say to that is ignorance is most definitely bliss. The speed at which athletes come back from ACL tears alone should waive a red flag but of course it does not. But hey, not so long ago the Earth was flat. The destructive force of denial far outweighs the side effects of steroid use. Eventually everyone is worm food as it is. By the way, how about a discussion on the LEGAL anti-inflamatories used throughout the league and their long term effects on athletes and their offspring. I've posted a bit so I'll bite. -Never assumed anything. In fact, I said that legalizing steroids wouldn't change anything....you'd still have some doing it and some not. The barbarian and I discussed this. -Ignorance is bliss. Thanks for that. -Your acl reference is wrong on two counts. One.....I (did anyone?) never implied that steroid use/hgh use didn't help performance/recovery. I (we) just pointed out what is known in terms of health risks (at least that's all I did). There is zero questions it 'helps' the athlete short term. Two....it does raise a red flag. But 'cheating' is not the only rationale/reason here. Advanced rehab programs/devices.... Advanced surgical techniques (scopes vs open procedure being the greatest advancement in decades)....HIGHLY skilled and specialized surgeons who do nothing but these surgeries on the BEST athletes in the world. There are reasons these athletes fly all over the country to see just one or two docs. Those surgeons are the best of the best and I believe that has an impact. -the earth is flat..... -'the destructive force of denial......" I never denied steroids/hgh are rampant. -worm food.....indeed. -your point about 'other' painkillers and anti-inflammatories is very valid. These are abused across the spectrum of patients (pro athletes to joe schmo's). NSAIDS, in a small nutshell, can cause gi bleeding, renal injury, and hypertension just to name a few. Lots of health problems attributed to excessive use. Narcotics have obvious concerns.....see Brett Favre and hydrocodone as an example. Good point. But....don't confuse legal nsaids, with legal corticosteroids (both anti-inflammatories which have zero anabolic effect) or legal narcotics (pure painkillers) with illegal steroids (no anti-inflammatory effect and strong anabolic effect).
Best Player Available Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 Anyone try any of that "Usane Bolt" hybrid weed hitting the shelves? I wonder if you can run faster after a J? Now that's a PED I can get behind. Man I hope silly threads like this stop after opening day. I want robots. Screw steroid users. Agreed, take the game to the technical people and go at it.
You herd it hear last Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 Hey Gunrack, do yourself a favor and picture your son for a second. Now picture him lying in a coffin dead with his mother grieving and screaming, "WHY DID YOU LET HIM DO THIS?" Do you want me to find the articles to link to you and drive home through your thick skull? Grow up dude, how bout encouraging your son to, I dunno, read? So that when he DOESN'T make it to the NFL or college, he won't be part of the growing band of raving lunatics taking over the country... quit while you're ahead, or in your case...just quit Sorry BB, shouldn't have gone there...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 25, 2012 Author Posted August 25, 2012 Sorry BB, shouldn't have gone there... Apology accepted. If they ever used it wouldn't be until I would say 21, not sure medically what age to start but teenagers definitely not.
NoSaint Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 If my son was an adult and needed it to go pro I would no problem, the chance to play a sport for a living and make millions doesn't come around every day. This one stuck with me some... I'd be curious generally about what if guys that focused the thousands of hours, channeled the must accomplish the dream at all costs attitude into football instead spent that time trying to perfect some other craft.... Even if they didn't make the same money, they'd probably be generally very successful... And would they be happier in general? In other words, do we romanticize a dream when in reality guys are just selling their long term well being? I know there's no one answer too. Just something bouncing around my head after reading that. The old would I really want my son to make football a career or be happier seeing him a really successful something else. As much as I love watching, I would probably much prefer to see my own do something else.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 25, 2012 Author Posted August 25, 2012 This one stuck with me some... I'd be curious generally about what if guys that focused the thousands of hours, channeled the must accomplish the dream at all costs attitude into football instead spent that time trying to perfect some other craft.... Even if they didn't make the same money, they'd probably be generally very successful... And would they be happier in general? In other words, do we romanticize a dream when in reality guys are just selling their long term well being? I know there's no one answer too. Just something bouncing around my head after reading that. The old would I really want my son to make football a career or be happier seeing him a really successful something else. As much as I love watching, I would probably much prefer to see my own do something else. I'd prefer they play football but doing something else is perfectly fine as well.
NoSaint Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) I'd prefer they play football but doing something else is perfectly fine as well. Even given the odds that they end up pretty well beat up? That for the rest of their years they would likely hurt every day? The risk of brain damages? Obviously the standard "whatever makes them happy" but I would worry about long term happiness with an nfl career vs a more conventional route. Edited August 25, 2012 by NoSaint
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 25, 2012 Author Posted August 25, 2012 Can we put this back on the Stadium Wall? It's going to get buried over here. As much as this is a sports issue it definitely involves football and would be better served where more fans can address this issue.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 25, 2012 Author Posted August 25, 2012 Even given the odds that they end up pretty well beat up? That for the rest of their years they would likely hurt every day? The risk of brain damages? Obviously the standard "whatever makes them happy" but I would worry about long term happiness with an nfl career vs a more conventional route. I have always been an athlete at heart, so I would do it ,so seeing my kids do it would be natural. I still train with weights and even dabbled in MMA a few yrs ago (gyms to far away to train and work at the same time) I have definitely had injuries over the years and have to stay on top of my form to limit back and shoulder problems, but I wouldn't trade it for the world. My Dad is always on my case that I could get hurt my age (40) but when I look at him he is total train wreck physically and if he trained lightly he would greatly improve his health. In two weeks I'll be Deadlifting 600 Lbs and Benching 425 which are personal bests for me. My point with all this is that to me it's worth the pain to be the best. But I'm not forcing my Kids into sports it's something they got to want to do.
MattM Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 If my son was an adult and needed it to go pro I would no problem, the chance to play a sport for a living and make millions doesn't come around every day. You may want to talk to Mitch Frerotte about that--oops, my bad.....
Punch Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 So many athletes use that your first statement (don't take this the wrong way) is naive. What you're suggesting is almost certainly the literal definition of cheating. Whether or not it is commonplace in pro sports doesn't make the practice ethical.
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