And the search for the Bills MLB begins

[DrDawkinstein]

Dr I usually agree with most of what you say, but come on, you've watched Shep play to this point in his career right? You honestly don't have any concern?

 

I watched Poz in the Jags game, and I found myself wishing Sheppard played more like Poz.

 

What point in his career are we at? If you answered going into his 2nd year, you are correct. He played in 9 games, as a rookie, after being injured early with no OTAs.

 

Am I saying he is definitely going to be awesome? No. But to start a thread about looking for a replacement, based on an article about a backup OLB getting reps as a backup MLB, is a little premature IMO.

 

The FACT is, we havent really seen what the kid can or cant do. If you (not just you, I mean anyone) want to make statements about replacing players based off a handful of rookie games and a couple preseasons, go ahead. It's the easy and lazy path to bet against young players. I'll wait and see before I get too worked up about it.

[Turbosrrgood]

What point in his career are we at? If you answered going into his 2nd year, you are correct. He played in 9 games, as a rookie, after being injured early with no OTAs.

 

Am I saying he is definitely going to be awesome? No. But to start a thread about looking for a replacement, based on an article about a backup OLB getting reps as a backup MLB, is a little premature IMO.

 

The FACT is, we havent really seen what the kid can or cant do. If you (not just you, I mean anyone) want to make statements about replacing players based off a handful of rookie games and a couple preseasons, go ahead. It's the easy and lazy path to bet against young players. I'll wait and see before I get too worked up about it.

 

I agree with you that he is young, and as a 3rd round pick you don't necessarily expect him to start in his first year or two. Which is basically my point, they should have allowed Morrison to compete for the job. Now, after Sheppard has struggled, they are giving Morrison reps there. Coincidence? Maybe, but I think it's fair to talk about it. I know many get upset about the slightest negative opinion towards players, that doesn't mean it's absolutely false...

 

Also, how can you say it's a FACT that we haven't seen what Sheppard can do. He played in 13 games last year, started 5, and played in all of training camp and both pre-season games this year? I think it's fair to say we have at least seen some of what he can do. If he was lighting it up and all over the field (like Dareus, who was in the same draft), people would be lining up to say how great he was...

 

Can he still improve, and become a solid player? Absolutely, but we haven't seen it yet, so we comment on what we HAVE seen.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Turbosrrgood

[3rdand12]

It's a better statement to say we have not seen what Morrison can do. His natural position is MLB. He has a very good track record... with the Raiders.

But if we are depending on Arthur it could be an issue. No offense, just too early to tell if he can do more than pass rush.

Starting to appear as linebacking by commitee. The Pittsburgh game might give us some insight. But my guess is that it will just confuse matters.

Be very interesting to see how Dave uses his LB's this game though.

I will be spending a lot of time rewinding on Sunday i bet. I cant wait!

Go Bills!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Morrison is virtually guaranteed to make the team, his salary is minimal, and he is the only LB on this team with real 4-3 MLB experience.

 

Nick Barnett Green Bay 2003-2007 seems pretty real to me. GB converted from the 4-3 to the 3-4 in 2008 when they canned the DC a** of our current LB coach, Bob Sanders.

 

I think the thought behind this thread is that it appears Morrison is being looked at as a possible replacement for Shep, who has struggled significantly so far.

 

Yes, that's what I think (negative spin on the move). I don't think they played with having the 2ndary call the defensive plays last week because Shep was doing great.

I think they're well aware he is struggling and were trying to see if he'd do better without the playcalling responsibilities.

 

The positive spin is they still have faith in Shep as MLB, they really like Moats as SLB, and they're auditioning Morrison against McKillop as a potential MLB backup.

 

Shep really doesn't deserve all the hate he's getting here, pr the *shudder* b-word. Please recall some of the top defensive teams think it takes 3-4 years to really develop a LB. It was always a stretch for some of us to think Shep could start his 2nd year as the "QB of the Defense", no matter how high his potential is.

[folz]

What makes this more curious was the team experimenting with having the safeties make the defensive calls

during the Minnesota game, a role usually reserved for the MLB. The experiment didn't work and the linebackers

will indeed make the calls, but why did they even try it?

 

http://blogs.buffalo...ign=blog_header

 

Is/Was Shep not doing a good job as the defensive QB? Or are they worried about him starting

for some other reason? Ergo the Morrison experiment as well?

 

It could be he's just not playing up to expectations, making the right calls, etc. but I wonder if it has anything to

do with the undisclosed ailment or whatever he had earlier in training camp. Usually the only time a team doesn't

disclose something is if it is a personal issue or an unusual health issue like Easley last year...

 

http://forums.twobil...e__hl__sheppard

 

What if they aren't sure of Shep's health/personal issues and they are too nervous to let a young guy

(McKillop/Carder) make all of the defensive calls and so you have the safeties and Morrison

experiments.

 

Obviously, as others have said, it could also just be that since Moats overtook Morrison at OLB then they have

to decide whether to keep Morrison at all (which if he can play two positions its a plus for him) over some of the young guys.

 

 

Either way, rather than taking it as a knock against our coaching staff, it reminds me of why I like Chan and his staff...

the depth chart is always up for debate, always up for competition. They aren't afraid to drop someone, even if he has

a name and/or good draft position, if he's not pulling his weight and they aren't afraid to promote a young or unproven

guy if he is out competing the vet in front of him. And if something is wrong he at least tries a number of things to fix it

rather than just accepting it (as it seemed that past regimes did).

 

 

 

 

[Looks like Hopeful beat me to the punch in discussing the defensive playcalling issue]

Edited August 24, 2012 by folz

[John from Riverside]

I agree with you that he is young, and as a 3rd round pick you don't necessarily expect him to start in his first year or two. Which is basically my point, they should have allowed Morrison to compete for the job. Now, after Sheppard has struggled, they are giving Morrison reps there. Coincidence? Maybe, but I think it's fair to talk about it. I know many get upset about the slightest negative opinion towards players, that doesn't mean it's absolutely false...

 

Also, how can you say it's a FACT that we haven't seen what Sheppard can do. He played in 13 games last year, started 5, and played in all of training camp and both pre-season games this year? I think it's fair to say we have at least seen some of what he can do. If he was lighting it up and all over the field (like Dareus, who was in the same draft), people would be lining up to say how great he was...

 

Can he still improve, and become a solid player? Absolutely, but we haven't seen it yet, so we comment on what we HAVE seen.

 

Got a look a little deeper then that turbo

 

- Last years defense was a joke....to include coaching

- Lets see him in some live fire THIS year before we start castrating him ok?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just put in McKillup, he 's got the experience and the nasty and would be an upgrade.

 

Er....exactly what experience does McKillop have as an NFL MLB?

Edited August 25, 2012 by Hopeful

[3rdand12]

Our man on the scene Folz has asked some very lucid questions.

Well done.

Right or wrong or whatevr. But the way they have been moving players around is enough to drive a fan on the outside nuts. Line backers especially. and doing it right now. maybe they are genuises.

cross training is good but it gets upon my nerves lately

 

Er....exactly what experience does McKillop have as an NFL MLB?

Not enough i think

but he did have some good write ups in camp. And a respectable showing in preseason game. I would like to find away to keep him. tough call. Think he will get picked up if we cant find room ? Hopeful ?

[Green Lightning]

Or they are possibly giving Shepp a warning shot?

 

Yup. That's my take. Just like Levitre last year.

[1B4IDie]

Mason Foster would have looked good as MLB (why can't I be in charge of just one draft)

[Orton's Arm]

Agreed.

 

And no - I'm not blaming Nix for anything - I was just bummed the moment Carolina grabbed him, and as good as Gilmore has been, I am still bummed Keuch didn't fall one more spot for us.

 

Gilmore is an upgrade at CB, but we have some depth there (I thought Brooks was the steal of the draft.) and we needed the MLB more.

The New York Times did a study which showed that pass defense is four times as important as run defense. (For those familiar with statistics: it was a multiple linear regression analysis, it employed six independent variables, the dependent variable used was the number of wins, and had an r^2 of 0.8.)

 

Anyway, pass defense is more important than run defense. As I see it, there are two ways a player can make an elite-level contribution to your pass defense. 1) He can be a very good pass rusher. 2) He can cover a good receiver one-on-one.

 

In Wannestedt's defense, it's rare for a linebacker to be asked to blitz. So it's not like Kuechley would have that many opportunities to rush the passer. In terms of pass defense, you're comparing Gilmore's pass coverage abilities to those of Kuechley. Which would you feel more comfortable doing: leaving Gilmore in one-on-one pass coverage against an elite WR like Larry Fitzgerald? Or leaving Kuechley in one-on-one coverage against an elite TE like Gronkowski?

 

Kuechley is considered a very good coverage linebacker, so he'd make a strong case for himself. But at the end of the day, I strongly suspect that Gilmore will be better at covering WRs than Kuechley will be at covering TEs. So the Bills probably got the better player--at least in terms of pass coverage.

 

But, you could argue, Kuechley would have added a lot more to the Bills' run defense than Gilmore. Even if run defense isn't as important as pass defense, that upgrade still has significant value. Maybe enough to make up for the difference in pass coverage ability.

 

But! I would argue that the Bills have no business covering TEs like Gronkowski with linebackers. They should be covering them with safeties. Safety is a source of strength for the Bills, with players like Byrd and George Wilson on the roster. Granted, if you had a player like Kuechley on the roster, you could have him cover Gronkowski, instead of, for example, having George Wilson do it. But I'm not convinced Kuechley would be that huge an upgrade in coverage over George Wilson. Gilmore on the other team's best WR + George Wilson on the other team's best TE gives you much better coverage than Aaron Williams on the other team's best WR + Kuechley on the other team's best TE. That's why Gilmore was such a good pick for us; and why he's a better addition than Kuechley would have been.

[spartacus]

Nothing about this article implies that they are looking to replace Sheppard in the middle. It only says Morrison will be getting rep's in the middle versus Pittsburgh. I think this is more of an indication that they are not entirely happy with McKillop and/or Carder (I suspect McKillop), and want to get Morrison some experience in case of an injury to Shepp.

 

It might actually make more sense to get Shepp the 1st team reps since he is needs the work

 

looks like Trent Edwards all over again - but at least it did not take 2 real games to figure it out

[Hapless Bills Fan]

[McKillop's experience] Not enough i think

but he did have some good write ups in camp. And a respectable showing in preseason game. I would like to find away to keep him. tough call. Think he will get picked up if we cant find room ? Hopeful ?

 

I think we keep McKillop if he's healthy. While not a proven NFL beast as MLB, he was a proven NFL beast on ST in his previous seasons. I'm hoping we'll trim Ruvell "Stone Hands" Martin in favor of some "young gun" defenders with good ST skills. If continued healthy, yeah, I think he'll be picked up if we cut him.

 

The folks who posit this may be a "warning shot across the bows" to Shep a la Bell last year may be correct. It may also be that Morrison is on the bubble, and they want to know if Morrison can still "cut the mustard" in the middle and give them versitility as a backup to win a spot.

 

I agree with the folks who observe the play-calling switch from MLB to safety and find it curious though. I personally think it has more to do with Shep's awful play than with Morrison/McKillop. It may be a shot across the bow or it may be an "awshit, this personnel grouping won't work out as we planned, what else do we got?" Time will tell.

 

Shep has just as much (and as little) experience as McKillop as a MLB - lots of strength and success at the position in college, none in the NFL. What people who are leaping from "maybe Shep's not ready to be our starting MLB" to "he's a bust" may be missing, is that this really is a game of fractions of a second. If a guy spends even a fraction of a second too long diagnosing the play and reacting, he's out of it. Thinking comes with a young guy who's learning still, reacting comes with a vet.

[THATS KILLER ORANGE JUICE]

 

Uh Yeah I followed every second of the draft. I never said we had a chance at drafting him, only that I wished we had him. When Miami took Tannehill I thought Panthers were going Coples and we had the Keuk. Reminded me of the time we were one pick away from Patrick Willis and the niners grabbed him.

 

If were using that logic why arent you just making this post about "uh, why didnt we just draft cam newton" your post is dumb

[3rdand12]

The New York Times did a study which showed that pass defense is four times as important as run defense. (For those familiar with statistics: it was a multiple linear regression analysis, it employed six independent variables, the dependent variable used was the number of wins, and had an r^2 of 0.8.)

 

Anyway, pass defense is more important than run defense. As I see it, there are two ways a player can make an elite-level contribution to your pass defense. 1) He can be a very good pass rusher. 2) He can cover a good receiver one-on-one.

 

In Wannestedt's defense, it's rare for a linebacker to be asked to blitz. So it's not like Kuechley would have that many opportunities to rush the passer. In terms of pass defense, you're comparing Gilmore's pass coverage abilities to those of Kuechley. Which would you feel more comfortable doing: leaving Gilmore in one-on-one pass coverage against an elite WR like Larry Fitzgerald? Or leaving Kuechley in one-on-one coverage against an elite TE like Gronkowski?

 

Kuechley is considered a very good coverage linebacker, so he'd make a strong case for himself. But at the end of the day, I strongly suspect that Gilmore will be better at covering WRs than Kuechley will be at covering TEs. So the Bills probably got the better player--at least in terms of pass coverage.

 

But, you could argue, Kuechley would have added a lot more to the Bills' run defense than Gilmore. Even if run defense isn't as important as pass defense, that upgrade still has significant value. Maybe enough to make up for the difference in pass coverage ability.

 

But! I would argue that the Bills have no business covering TEs like Gronkowski with linebackers. They should be covering them with safeties. Safety is a source of strength for the Bills, with players like Byrd and George Wilson on the roster. Granted, if you had a player like Kuechley on the roster, you could have him cover Gronkowski, instead of, for example, having George Wilson do it. But I'm not convinced Kuechley would be that huge an upgrade in coverage over George Wilson. Gilmore on the other team's best WR + George Wilson on the other team's best TE gives you much better coverage than Aaron Williams on the other team's best WR + Kuechley on the other team's best TE. That's why Gilmore was such a good pick for us; and why he's a better addition than Kuechley would have been.

Quite a perspective you have put forth. I especially like how the story ends, Gilmore being the better pick.

Thanks for the writing!

 

I think we keep McKillop if he's healthy. While not a proven NFL beast as MLB, he was a proven NFL beast on ST in his previous seasons. I'm hoping we'll trim Ruvell "Stone Hands" Martin in favor of some "young gun" defenders with good ST skills. If continued healthy, yeah, I think he'll be picked up if we cut him.

 

The folks who posit this may be a "warning shot across the bows" to Shep a la Bell last year may be correct. It may also be that Morrison is on the bubble, and they want to know if Morrison can still "cut the mustard" in the middle and give them versitility as a backup to win a spot.

 

I agree with the folks who observe the play-calling switch from MLB to safety and find it curious though. I personally think it has more to do with Shep's awful play than with Morrison/McKillop. It may be a shot across the bow or it may be an "awshit, this personnel grouping won't work out as we planned, what else do we got?" Time will tell.

 

Shep has just as much (and as little) experience as McKillop as a MLB - lots of strength and success at the position in college, none in the NFL. What people who are leaping from "maybe Shep's not ready to be our starting MLB" to "he's a bust" may be missing, is that this really is a game of fractions of a second. If a guy spends even a fraction of a second too long diagnosing the play and reacting, he's out of it. Thinking comes with a young guy who's learning still, reacting comes with a vet.

Well put Hopeful, there is a lot to consider and i agree it's not Just This or Just That. Much more going on than folks like us can imagine.

all this still has one thing at the forefront... I hope they get this figured out pretty soon.

Like tonight would be nice against the Steelers who are nearly a complete team. A great test coming across the board.

Sheppard is just not ready yet, he might be soon, just not yet.

also guys, tonight might be a deciding vote on the Morrison haters club and then the more positive and hopeful group that think he still has the talent and physical tools.

I have been wrong before

Edited August 25, 2012 by 3rdand12

[Reed83HOF]

From Chris Brown:

 

"The coaches likely see Morrison’s experience as a MLB as an asset should Kelvin Sheppard succumb to injury during the season. Knowing Arthur Moats is expected to start at SLB Saturday, Morrison’s versatility figures to be key in securing a final roster spot."

 

http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2012/08/23/morrison-could-see-mlb-snaps-sat/

 

Sheppard is still very young. My biggest worry about him coming into this season was him still needing game expereince plus the added responsibility of calling the D plays. Even him hesitating for a split second can negatively impact his play. I still believe that we have no idea who he is as a player. Yeah he played last year, but with the DL we had, you can't accurately guage his play unless you know what play was called, what his assignments were and if he was in the proper position. The fact of the matter is, this is going to be the season where the LBs now have the players in front of them and behind them. Either there is progress with them or there isn't. It will be much easier to make an evaluation as to where they all are now.

 

Next season we all know that WR, LBs and QB are potitions to look at going into the draft. There will be ups and downs this year, but we do need to see Sheppard grow and get better as the year goes on. Remember the Gailey and Nix like players who can play multiple positions as it makes shaping up the roster much easier. Morrision needs to time to show that he can still play in the middle, his position now that Moats has sealed the SLB position now makes him a bubble player. Todate I don't recall WAnny or Gailey or NIx saying anything negative about Sheppard. The only comments I recall is that they think he will be a good MLB...It is going to take a little time....

[TheKickIsGood]

MLB is Morrison's natural position

[OCinBuffalo]

1. I don't see how this means Sheppard is in trouble. Look at Cordy Glenn...they had concerns about him, but also clearly wanted him to start....and in response have played him as many reps as possible. If they had the same concerns with Sheppard, he'd be getting the same treatment. These coached have proven they are consistent and straightforward. If anything, they are cross-training Morrison, to be a versatile backup for the early part of the season. I see Carder moving into that role quickly as well. Therefore, Morrison makes the team, and McKillop = cut.

 

2. Talking about Keuchly, in any context, is patently retarded. Need I remind you again: THIS IS NOT MADDEN. You can't just make whatever trade you want...because you think it makes sense....and there's some made-up model that allows you to do it. Moving up to Keuchly would have cost us TJ Graham. NO F'ing way that trade makes sense.

[FreakPop]

1. I don't see how this means Sheppard is in trouble. Look at Cordy Glenn...they had concerns about him, but also clearly wanted him to start....and in response have played him as many reps as possible. If they had the same concerns with Sheppard, he'd be getting the same treatment. These coached have proven they are consistent and straightforward. If anything, they are cross-training Morrison, to be a versatile backup for the early part of the season. I see Carder moving into that role quickly as well. Therefore, Morrison makes the team, and McKillop = cut.

 

2. Talking about Keuchly, in any context, is patently retarded. Need I remind you again: THIS IS NOT MADDEN. You can't just make whatever trade you want...because you think it makes sense....and there's some made-up model that allows you to do it. Moving up to Keuchly would have cost us TJ Graham. NO F'ing way that trade makes sense.

 

I know, exactly! He also isn't on the Bills, so who cares about Keuchly!

[Rico]

I know, exactly! He also isn't on the Bills, so who cares about Keuchly!

Obviously all the disgruntled Pos fans. Go Tank!