BuffBill Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) couldn't resist, too funny. Edited August 23, 2012 by BuffBill
Rob's House Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) Oh, I don't know about that. Brady, Rodgers, Flacco, Cutler and maybe a few of the *new* kids might give him a run for his money. Brady & Rogers aren't even in that conversation. I'd throw Newton & Stafford into the mix, though. WHAT KINDA QUESTION? Once again anybody that would take Fitz over Mike needs a cat scan.. Glass QB or not he is on another level of talent than Fitz will ever be and thats a fact. Most people dont want him cuz he killed Snoopy whooped do same people kill spiders, eat fish and hunt but upset he suplexed Scooby Doo on his neck. SMH... He did his time but eh whatever.... *Side Note* This thread should have at least 30 pages by tonight anything with MV7 and the Bills people seem to get very emotional over... +1 If you've ever killed a spider where do you get off demonizing someone for stealing a little kid's puppy & throwing it to vicious pitbulls to be ripped to pieces for his enjoyment. It's practically the same thing. The hypocrisy on this board is ridiculous. Besides, the tears of a child whose dog disappeared are yummy. Edited August 23, 2012 by Rob's House
Billsrhody Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 I would not feel better about this team if Vick was the QB. You can't simply separate an athletes abilities to play the game from their character. At some point those things have to come together. Putting that aside however, I have issues with Vick's just the same. Let's start with his fragility. In 9 seasons, he's managed just 1 complete season. Even discounting his first year in Philadelphia (where Kolb was starting), he's only been on the field for 71% of possible games or about 11 games per season. Those wanting to use the "if healthy" argument don't have much history to be able to make that leap that he'll be healthy. Let's extend that to his accuracy. Fitzpatrick hasn't had incredible accuracy at 59.2% for his career. With the Bills, it's 59.4%. Certainly not great or anything to fawn over. Vick isn't any better at 56.0% for his career. He's been a little better with Philadelphia at 60.2%, but that's with far superior receiving options than the Bills have had over the same time period. I don't think anyone would disagree that you can't just take a QB from one team and put him on another and expect them to play the same. Unless that QB is Peyton Manning of course. People can tout his arm strength all they want, but if he isn't accurate enough to get it in the vacinity of the receivers, it won't matter. I appreciate Vick's abilities when it comes to scrambling. Let's not forget though that THAT's the reason he's been hurt so much. He's always looking to take off and that has gotten him in trouble on several occasions. Vick does not have the size and durability of a Culpepper or Newton. So for the instances where he extends a drive here or there with his legs, you are almost guaranteeing that you won't see him for 4-5 games a season. The trade off just isn't worth it. Back to the combination of ability and character, I don't have one doubt in my mind that he'd still be fighting dogs if he hadn't been caught. I don't owe him forgiveness though just because he's served his time. The moment the Bills signed Michael Vick would be the moment I turn in my fan card. Regardless, he's at the end of his career anyway and we don't have to worry about that happening. Our worst case scenario at this point is that Fitzpatrick doesn't progress this year and we're looking at Matt Barkley or Landry Jones in next years draft. While this thread is pure fantasy, that's a little more realistic. So you don't believe in giving the guy a second chance?
Luxy312 Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 So you don't believe in giving the guy a second chance? He's getting his second chance with Phily. Other than that, I don't owe him anything. Do child molesters deserve a second chance because they get caught and do time? Murderers? Rapists? At the end of the day, this wasn't one random act for which he did time. He engaged in this activity for almost 6 years. The courts decided how long he would spend behind bars. While he's exhonnerated legally, he's not necessarily exhonnerated from the moral judgement of others that see what he did as a cruel, heinous, senseless act.
Billsrhody Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 He's getting his second chance with Phily. Other than that, I don't owe him anything. Do child molesters deserve a second chance because they get caught and do time? Murderers? Rapists? At the end of the day, this wasn't one random act for which he did time. He engaged in this activity for almost 6 years. The courts decided how long he would spend behind bars. While he's exhonnerated legally, he's not necessarily exhonnerated from the moral judgement of others that see what he did as a cruel, heinous, senseless act. I just happen to believe that he grew up in a culture where dog fighting was common place. I don't think he really even questioned it as being immoral until he went to jail for it. Since that point he's been educated and he's changed his ways and even lobbied against dog fighting http://nation.foxnews.com/michael-vick/2011/07/20/michael-vick-animal-rights-activist-seeks-redemption . I really don't think child molesters, murderers and rapists belong in this conversation. They all go to jail for life or close to it. Lets not pretend that what Mike Vick did is anywhere close to being a rapist or a murderer.
Luxy312 Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 I just happen to believe that he grew up in a culture where dog fighting was common place. I don't think he really even questioned it as being immoral until he went to jail for it. Since that point he's been educated and he's changed his ways and even lobbied against dog fighting http://nation.foxnew...eeks-redemption . I really don't think child molesters, murderers and rapists belong in this conversation. They all go to jail for life or close to it. Lets not pretend that what Mike Vick did is anywhere close to being a rapist or a murderer. Classic flawed arguments. What Michael Vick did should be socially acceptable because he grew up around it and it's not worse than other things. Unfortunately, that has no bearing on peoples feelings that he did something morally objectionable. He knew it was illegal because he hid it. Yet he did it anyway for years and years. If he's so damned stupid to not be able to see that as a grown man, that's another reason to not like him. Stupidity is not a defense.
JESSEFEFFER Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 For some of those who have grown up thinking that fantasy football production and a Madden rating define a players value to a team, this is no contest. To those that have an appreciation for what an individual human being brings to any group dynamic or who prefer not to live with the hypocrisy of wanting their team to succeed even though they are lead by a person whom they don't respect, the choice is also clear.
Rob's House Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 I just happen to believe that he grew up in a culture where dog fighting was common place. I don't think he really even questioned it as being immoral until he went to jail for it. Since that point he's been educated and he's changed his ways and even lobbied against dog fighting http://nation.foxnews.com/michael-vick/2011/07/20/michael-vick-animal-rights-activist-seeks-redemption . I really don't think child molesters, murderers and rapists belong in this conversation. They all go to jail for life or close to it. Lets not pretend that what Mike Vick did is anywhere close to being a rapist or a murderer. I wonder what he learned that changed his heart.
Luxy312 Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 For some of those who have grown up thinking that fantasy football production and a Madden rating define a players value to a team, this is no contest. To those that have an appreciation for what an individual human being brings to any group dynamic or who prefer not to live with the hypocrisy of wanting their team to succeed even though they are lead by a person whom they don't respect, the choice is also clear. Excellent point!
Dorkington Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 I'm not sure if Vick would actually bring any more wins to this team or not. A lot would depend on if we made changes to the offense.
CowgirlsFan Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 Nope!!! Too injury prone! Plus too much drama from the past. Bills need no issues on or off the field this year!
Billsrhody Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 Classic flawed arguments. What Michael Vick did should be socially acceptable because he grew up around it and it's not worse than other things. Unfortunately, that has no bearing on peoples feelings that he did something morally objectionable. He knew it was illegal because he hid it. Yet he did it anyway for years and years. If he's so damned stupid to not be able to see that as a grown man, that's another reason to not like him. Stupidity is not a defense. I'm not saying it was socially acceptable I'm just saying that he grew up doing it and probably never questioned it. Are you trying to say that it is as bad as rape and murder? Don't forget that you're the one who brought that into the argument.. Either way you're ignoring the fact that he has changed and showed remorse for what he has done. He learned to view dogs as more than just animals and he realized that some people care about dogs (unlike the culture where he grew up). I'm not saying what he did was right, it was downright awful. But what does a guy have to do? He can't change the past..
FleaMoulds80 Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 For those that cry about giving him a second chance...just think about it for a split second. If an average person did this, how easy do you think he/she will find another job making millions of dollars again? You and I made this kinda mistake, we'd be flipping burgers and taking out the garbage for the rest of our lives. But the fact that he's a celebrity/athlete gives him a free pass. Just look at Donte Stallworth and a lot of these wortheless scum that's around the league. So no. He doesn't deserve a 2nd chance like this because an average person would never be given the same opportunity if this happened to us.
Billsrhody Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 For those that cry about giving him a second chance...just think about it for a split second. If an average person did this, how easy do you think he/she will find another job making millions of dollars again? You and I made this kinda mistake, we'd be flipping burgers and taking out the garbage for the rest of our lives. But the fact that he's a celebrity/athlete gives him a free pass. Just look at Donte Stallworth and a lot of these wortheless scum that's around the league. So no. He doesn't deserve a 2nd chance like this because an average person would never be given the same opportunity if this happened to us. The average person doesn't make millions of dollars because they are not great at anything. Vick is great at playing football, thats why he can go back to doing what he did before. If you had a great stock broker who had the same thing happen to him.. I bet he we go right back to being a stock broker after because he's great at what he does. If anything.. Vick's "celebrity" made it harder for him to return.. you dont see PETA running after the "average person". You're basically just hating on him because he's talented.
apuszczalowski Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 The average person doesn't make millions of dollars because they are not great at anything. Vick is great at playing football, thats why he can go back to doing what he did before. If you had a great stock broker who had the same thing happen to him.. I bet he we go right back to being a stock broker after because he's great at what he does. If anything.. Vick's "celebrity" made it harder for him to return.. you dont see PETA running after the "average person". You're basically just hating on him because he's talented. Vick would have been better off raping, and murdering children, he would have been forgiven much easier and quicker then doing anything to harm an animal, putting viscous dogs (Pitbulls) against each other (People make it sound like he threw shitzus and Pugs out in a pit against a rabid pitbull. its probably true that somone could get a similar job back after doing something like this and serving their sentence if they moved out of the area and started new. Problem is that many who have any kind of record find it hard to go back to their jobs because of the fact that most places when they do a background check will wonder why you went from a good stock broker job to a 3 year blank on your resume.....
thewildrabbit Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 NO! He doesn't have Fitz's ability to get the ball out to the open receiver in under 3 seconds. Vick has a better line,better WR's, better TE. Better scheme, better HC Fitz has been able to do more with less. Fitz even has about the very same escape ability as Vick. MV just doesn't get the ball out quickly enough to avoid all the hits
Luxy312 Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 I'm not saying it was socially acceptable I'm just saying that he grew up doing it and probably never questioned it. Are you trying to say that it is as bad as rape and murder? Don't forget that you're the one who brought that into the argument.. Either way you're ignoring the fact that he has changed and showed remorse for what he has done. He learned to view dogs as more than just animals and he realized that some people care about dogs (unlike the culture where he grew up). I'm not saying what he did was right, it was downright awful. But what does a guy have to do? He can't change the past.. Not my point at all. You're just not getting it. I don't have to pay attention that he changed or showed remorse. I view him as a piece of human garbage for what he did and I always will. I will not give him a pass because he did his time and appears to be showing remorse. I say appears, because I think it's all about P.R. and trying to resurrect what he had before. Same with any other crime. Child predators don't get a pass because they did time or went to counseling. Rapists that most often get sentences of 3 years or so can die and I won't care one iota. Classic arguments are always made by Vick nut huggers that "there's always something worse" or that "people eat meat", so it should somehow be OK that he participated in the electrocution of dogs because they wouldn't fight or lost a fight. At the end of the day, I stand by my points. Regardless of all this back and forth nonsense, this thread should be rated a 1 out of 10 if there were ratings. This is all Madden nonsense, where some Bills fan with a man crush on Vick really wants him to be on the team. It's not happening so we don't have to worry about the consequences if it did.
Billsrhody Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 Not my point at all. You're just not getting it. I don't have to pay attention that he changed or showed remorse. I view him as a piece of human garbage for what he did and I always will. I will not give him a pass because he did his time and appears to be showing remorse. I say appears, because I think it's all about P.R. and trying to resurrect what he had before. Same with any other crime. Child predators don't get a pass because they did time or went to counseling. Rapists that most often get sentences of 3 years or so can die and I won't care one iota. Classic arguments are always made by Vick nut huggers that "there's always something worse" or that "people eat meat", so it should somehow be OK that he participated in the electrocution of dogs because they wouldn't fight or lost a fight. At the end of the day, I stand by my points. Regardless of all this back and forth nonsense, this thread should be rated a 1 out of 10 if there were ratings. This is all Madden nonsense, where some Bills fan with a man crush on Vick really wants him to be on the team. It's not happening so we don't have to worry about the consequences if it did. So basically you dont believe that people can change.. got it.
SactoBillFan Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 Regardless of all this back and forth nonsense, this thread should be rated a 1 out of 10 if there were ratings. 1
FleaMoulds80 Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 The average person doesn't make millions of dollars because they are not great at anything. Vick is great at playing football, thats why he can go back to doing what he did before. If you had a great stock broker who had the same thing happen to him.. I bet he we go right back to being a stock broker after because he's great at what he does. If anything.. Vick's "celebrity" made it harder for him to return.. you dont see PETA running after the "average person". You're basically just hating on him because he's talented. Your logic makes no sense what so ever. If you're not famous you'd never get your job back, whether your good at your job or not. Vick wasn't even a mediocre QB before coming to Philly and how do you explain Donte Stallworth? Here. Let's see what happens to me if I run someone over and kill someone. You think I'll be back at my old job or any job making the same kinda money I'm making now? Give me a break.
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