Russell Wilson to start Friday

[Zulu Cthulhu]

The amount of stupid in this thread is astounding. No one, not even Tasker's Ghost, knows what this kid Wilson is going to do in the NFL yet. You can not, CAN NOT, draw anything from the fact that clueless Pete Carroll is starting him over some other no name QB (2 whole starts!) this week in PRESEASON. Wait till the kid actually performs in some games that matter before you start furiously polishing his knob.

[Ronin]

Chan said in a press conference talking about Bob Griffin that he didnt watch any film of him becuase "we werent going to draft a QB". Its on the bills website, I cant link it because Im at work. If anyone hasnt been impressed by Graham thus far, you havent been paying attention

 

It's been entirely against 2nd and 3rd teamers and players that will be cut in a few days.

 

People need to distinguish that. Funny, because everyone that defends how this team is run always claims that the preseason doesn't matter, but I guess in this case it does. lol

 

I will say this, if you're looking for that preseason success to translate equally to the regular season, then expect Graham to post a nice 800 yard season. I'll be surprised if he has 400 in a backup role.

 

LOL! If anything, Wilson's chances of succeeding at this level are remote. I can name you all of the sub-6' QB's who have had sustained success in the NFL the past 20 years:

 

As I've said, he's played better than Graham in preseason, and while I think that Flynn starts the season there without any question, Wilson has certainly opened eyes.

 

He's better than Flutie ever was. He also posted much better stats in college than Flutie and he's more athletic.

 

My comparison has been to Graham, and I find it to be funny that you dismiss Wilson in the NFL for standard reasons, but that you don't apply those same standard reasons to why Graham will all but assuredly not be worth a 3rd round pick. Can you explain the gap in consistency of your argument and logic there?

 

I'll go on record here as saying Wilson was my greatest sleeper pick in this draft, relative to the potential he has, IMO. I know he is short - however, he played behind a massive O-line in college. When it comes to arm strength, he's got it. Speed - he's got it real good. Accuracy - he's on. If he were two inches taller, he'd of been a top 15 pick. The real debate about Russel Wilson should come down to just that - will his height stop him from utilizing his skills?

 

I say, for a team in need of a long term QB, who wasn't going to spend a high round pick on one - what better option? What are the Bills waiting for? I mean, the risk reward ratio here was so in favor of drafting him! When it comes to what the Bills are thinking - I can only guess this: Nix seems very much like he favors traditional type players - we've seen, in his time here, the kinds of players filling up this roster that we used to envy on other teams. Big, fast, strong. So, it seems like they were going all in with Fitz this year, with the obvious intention and acknowledgment that it is a prove-it year. If he fails, I see them having no other choice than to make every move possible next offseason to secure the top QB available.

 

My issue with all this is - in a case like Wilson's, when Buffalo already was going into a season with a QB, they could've only risked a 3rd round pick, and if Fitz failed, they'd of had a QB that gave them some leverage in the 2013 draft. As it is now, if Fitz fails, they'll be so obviously in need of a QB, any team ahead of them can demand just about anything it wants. Unless they think Young can be a future star here. I just doubt them counting on either - and so it seems Nix has really left himself open here to real vulnerability if Fitz fails to succeed.

 

Dead balls accuracy analysis!

 

Wilson would have fit in nicely as a Wildcat standard set tweener too.

Edited August 23, 2012 by TaskersGhost

[biglukes]

 

 

It's been entirely against 2nd and 3rd teamers and players that will be cut in a few days.

 

That's interesting because that's exactly who Wilson has been playing against. So Grahamhaving success against backups is meaningless and somehow works against him, but somehow Wilson's success against backups stamps his ticket to Canton?

[Ronin]

The amount of stupid in this thread is astounding. No one, not even Tasker's Ghost, knows what this kid Wilson is going to do in the NFL yet. You can not, CAN NOT, draw anything from the fact that clueless Pete Carroll is starting him over some other no name QB (2 whole starts!) this week in PRESEASON. Wait till the kid actually performs in some games that matter before you start furiously polishing his knob.

 

I think I pretty much said that, that we don't know what Wilson is going to do.

 

But, we can make comparisons between Wilson and Graham. Wilson's played very well, enough to cause a preseason controversy, which won't end in his favor, over who should start in Seattle at QB.

 

At least one poster has opined here about how great Graham has played in preseason. Really? Graham's played well?

 

Because I've got both gamebooks open right now and here's what I see about Graham, going against the 2nd, 3rd, and soon to be goners of other teams -

 

He's been unimpressive in limited KRs and PRs. So where's this crazy speed?

 

He caught a 5 yard pass in the Vikes game which shows nothing.

 

He caught three passes in the Skins game from Thigpen, one for 11, one for 21 from Thigpen, and one from Young for 8 yards. He also dropped one pass and had a false start.

 

Who considers any of that impressive?

 

That leaves one catch that he made against the Vikes for 64 yards thrown by Young over a backup Safety, not even a cover oriented CB.

 

And so for that everyone knows that Graham's going to be good? ... whatever

 

So to sum up, Graham's going to be excellent because he caught one pass against a backup safety in backup action, and against that same kind of competition really hasn't shown anything, including speed, and who dropped one of only a handful of passes thrown his way, and who did nothing even remotely significant on return duty, but ...

 

Wilson, who has completed 2/3 of his passes for 3 TDs and 1 INT and a 110 rating, isn't going to amount to anything.

 

Got it!

 

 

That's interesting because that's exactly who Wilson has been playing against. So Grahamhaving success against backups is meaningless and somehow works against him, but somehow Wilson's success against backups stamps his ticket to Canton?

 

At least you admit that Graham has only performed against backups.

 

Again, you miss the point entirely though. Both played against similar competition, but first of all, QB is a much tougher position to master in the NFL, but Wilson has distinguished himself whereas, except to those that want to see it, Graham has not. Wilson's entire preseason has been excellent. Cousins too in more limited action. Graham's entire preseason value hinges on a single play, and not even against a cover oriented CB, rather a backup Safety.

 

You don't see a difference still? Because that's what I think is interesting, people that extrapolate greatness from one play under those circumstances, but that routinely dismiss great play throughout by another.

 

Otherwise, my greater point was that the Bills didn't need another role-playing project receiver with no college accolades, but they are going to need a QB, and really, need one right now, after Fitz gets the boot in 8 weeks.

Edited August 23, 2012 by TaskersGhost

[Beerball]

You don't see a difference still? Because that's what I think is interesting, people that extrapolate greatness from one play under those circumstances, but that routinely dismiss great play throughout by another.

It's the preseason; nothing matters.

[Ronin]

It's the preseason; nothing matters.

 

LOL

 

Except for Graham's one catch, right.

 

Scores don't matter, the play of rookies and others looking to make the teams do.

 

Also what matters is that the team hasn't been able to dig its way out of miserable offensive performance going almost all the way back to the beginning of last season.

 

For everyone that can't see that now, they'll see it soon.

 

I suppose that a team that has seen fit to play offense ineptly for nearly an entire year will come out of the gates in week 1 on the road against the Jets and light up Revis and the Jets D though. We can always hope, at least until it doesn't happen.

 

That's where good planning comes in though and I think we're going to see Nix and Gailey's planning with lots of holes at that time.

Edited August 23, 2012 by TaskersGhost

[NoSaint]

To add to what AJ just wrote, several scouts made statements to the effect that "if Wilson was 2 inches taller, he'd be a top 5 pick."

 

It can be argued that the publicity surrounding Wilson's strong preseason is unwarranted and premature.

 

It can also be argued that some fans are being overly dismissive of him simply due to ingrained and dogmatic attitudes towards shorter quarterbacks.

 

Then why does a guy like brees still project as a first rounder and get picked with the first pick of the second round, 40+ picks earlier? Or even a Vick actually going top 5?

 

I am not typically one to compare the two just for height but in this case.... If that's literally the only thing keeping him out of the top 5 - shouldn't he have gone sooner? It seems like a case of what scouts say, not matching what they did, and it tends to make me lean towards him not being a top 5 qb but shorter.

 

Not trying to beat him up but it's an interesting case.

Edited August 23, 2012 by NoSaint

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Then why does a guy like brees still project as a first rounder and get picked with the first pick of the second round, 40+ picks earlier? Or even a Vick actually going top 5?

 

I am not typically one to compare the two just for height but in this case.... If that's literally the only thing keeping him out of the top 5 - shouldn't he have gone sooner? It seems like a case of what scouts say, not matching what they did, and it tends to make me lean towards him not being a top 5 qb but shorter.

 

Not trying to beat him up but it's an interesting case.

 

Well I'll comment and postulate without really knowing.

 

Wilson was a high 3rd rounder so that's not an epic slide by any means.

 

Secondly, scouts don't draft and in fact in most cases are not in the war room.

 

Finally the draft falls a certain way partly due to team needs and circumstances.

 

These might not be sufficient explanations but it's all I have.

 

That, and the comparisons stylistically to Brees are only due to their height.

 

Wilson actually plays quite a bit like Steve McNair… he's a much better athlete than Brees and is much stronger and thicker.

[GG]

for what it's worth, this man right here does not look like someone who is going to come to buffalo in april, learn gailey's offense by september, and lead the bills to the super bowl.

 

What is it about the picture that makes you convinced that he can't master an NFL offense?

 

 

As it now stands we'll probably grab some other backup reject for the next few years after this season.

 

Or trade a top 10 pick for a backup?

[NoSaint]

 

 

Well I'll comment and postulate without really knowing.

 

Wilson was a high 3rd rounder so that's not an epic slide by any means.

 

Secondly, scouts don't draft and in fact in most cases are not in the war room.

 

Finally the draft falls a certain way partly due to team needs and circumstances.

 

These might not be sufficient explanations but it's all I have.

 

That, and the comparisons stylistically to Brees are only due to their height.

 

Wilson actually plays quite a bit like Steve McNair… he's a much better athlete than Brees and is much stronger and thicker.

 

I understand. And generally won't disagree with any of those points. The flip side was just the counter argument that comes to mind when I hear "scouts said...."

 

Typically with the draft I believe what I see more than what I hear. There could be other reasons but the simple one seems to be that he's good and very likable but not quite as good as the guys that size didn't matter for.

 

I usually try to stay away from personal qb evals as its above my pay grade though

[Thirty Year Fan]

I think Wilson is going to be good, but that doesn't mean TJ won't.

I agree with you I think they are both great round 3 picks .

But finding a QB in the 3rd who might start is gold.

[biglukes]

I agree with you I think they are both great round 3 picks .

But finding a QB in the 3rd who might start is gold.

Technically we did that once before. His name was Trent Edwards.

[D521646]

I watched the 2nd half of the Seattle game again last night and I don't know, this Wilson kid really is the real deal, IMO. Yes, it's preseason and all that jazz, but come on? Anyone who knows anything about Football can't dismiss this kids potential in the NFL? All that said, I have no regrets and it is what it is. TJ hasn't shown "blow my mind" skillz yet, but he could, and if he does what Chan and Nix think he can, then we should all be happy about it in the end.

 

Cheers!

 

Tim-

[John from Riverside]

You know....after the draft I was worried we were going to have this conversation because I expect TJ Graham to look small, weak, and unable to get off press coverage as a rookie......I also expected him to be fumbling left and right the way everyone was talking about him......

 

Then he goes into Pre Season and frankly looks like one of our best wide recievers....he seems to make plays every time he gets on the field....as a ROOKIE

 

Meanwhile....I loved Russel Wilson the QB...and glad he is doing well. But its PRESEASON......and these rookies are going against vanila defense.

 

People just have to have something to B word about....if TJ Graham becomes a young Peerless Price for us...this was a win in the 3rd round.

 

Meanwhile......VY is starting to look much better of late....as he starts to get comfortable and get the playbook down. Fitz is the guy the bills have made the committment to quit WHINING

[John from Riverside]

^{Personally I want to know what anyone would want to destroy their credibility (whatever they actually had) saying that TJ Graham is a bust and hasnt done anything}

 

^{First....he hasnt had a chance to do anything the season hasn't started yet}

 

^{Second....he has been tearing it up in training camp AND in the pre season games......so there is reason to be positive there not negative}

 

^{I dont get it......}

[biglukes]

You know....after the draft I was worried we were going to have this conversation because I expect TJ Graham to look small, weak, and unable to get off press coverage as a rookie......I also expected him to be fumbling left and right the way everyone was talking about him......

 

Then he goes into Pre Season and frankly looks like one of our best wide recievers....he seems to make plays every time he gets on the field....as a ROOKIE

 

Meanwhile....I loved Russel Wilson the QB...and glad he is doing well. But its PRESEASON......and these rookies are going against vanila defense.

 

People just have to have something to B word about....if TJ Graham becomes a young Peerless Price for us...this was a win in the 3rd round.

 

Meanwhile......VY is starting to look much better of late....as he starts to get comfortable and get the playbook down. Fitz is the guy the bills have made the committment to quit WHINING

There seems to be some strange force in the Buffalo Bills fan universe where any positive must immediately be attempted to be offset by a negative.

[VADC Bills]

Why all this panic about QB?

Man the season hasn't even started, and all I see are topics about this QB and that QB.

I don't get it, we are going with whos here. Worry about QB's later

I guess the point is we all know we are going to have to get a QB. We have known this for years. It would be nice if Buddy factored this in one of his drafts. VY was not a bad move but spotty play from the QB position this year has to put Gailey in the hot seat.

Edited August 23, 2012 by VADC Bills

[John from Riverside]

I watched the 2nd half of the Seattle game again last night and I don't know, this Wilson kid really is the real deal, IMO. Yes, it's preseason and all that jazz, but come on? Anyone who knows anything about Football can't dismiss this kids potential in the NFL? All that said, I have no regrets and it is what it is. TJ hasn't shown "blow my mind" skillz yet, but he could, and if he does what Chan and Nix think he can, then we should all be happy about it in the end.

 

Cheers!

 

Tim-

 

TJ graham has been visibily open in the preseason games....A LOT.....Tasker made a comment about it in the game he called. QB missed the fact that Graham was wide open.

 

There seems to be some strange force in the Buffalo Bills fan universe where any positive must immediately be attempted to be offset by a negative.

 

 

We do seem to have a lot of "Peeing in the punchbowl" folks around here....no doubt

[chris heff]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll answer all three of you simultaneously.

 

"TJ Graham's biggest asset is his ability to stretch defenses."

 

What a yawner. If you knew how ridiculously cliched and overused that statement is you'd be ashamed to use it.

 

"Kinda like how you already put Wilson there and know that TJ will be a bust? How about we let them play some games first."

 

We don't know how good Wilson will be, but right now both he and Cousins, both available in the mid-3rd, and I was actually thinking Cousins even more, who was a rated 2nd/3rd unlike Graham who no one had going until the late round if at all, are both playing well, much better than Graham in a position that is far more difficult to learn in the NFL. We more than likely easily could have had Graham in the 4th, maybe even 5th or 6th.

 

Otherwise no, we don't need to play any games to see how good Graham's going to be any more than we needed to see any to have realized that Hardy was a bust. Players like Graham are one-dimensional. All they bring is speed, and if you're not new to football, then you realize how little speed in and of itself translates to the NFL. (Clue: See CJ Spiller, the "blindingly fast RB" from GT)

 

Otherwise, if Graham's so lightning fast, then what happened in college where he averaged a paltry 14.6 yards per catch over four years and had a total of 1,430 yards receiving total in four seasons?

 

Are we supposed to believe that his speed did little for him in college, otherwise why the pathetically pedestrian average, but now at the pro level he's going to shake all that and beat players that he didn't beat in college?

 

Have you looked at his game logs and asked yourself why he flunked in spades against the best (meaning really just above average) defenses in his own conference? Just asking because it doesn't seem like it.

 

Anyway, so what we're supposed to believe now is that he couldn't get that done in college, against guys that didn't even get drafted, but that he's mysteriously going to get it done against the best that are in the NFL now? Because what I'm seeing is that of the 29 CBs drafted this year, he didn't have a good game against any one of those teams. Not that they would have assigned their best CB to him if he had.

 

So while you say that I have "strong opinions," if you mean strongly researched, yes, I fully agree.

 

I would argue that your opinions are all equally strong, yet without any evidence, since there is almost none given that players like him come and go like the leaves on the trees every season.

 

Graham won't even be on this team in three seasons. It was a wasted 3rd round pick. He brings nothing but speed and he's a project in that way otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if he's released before next season.

 

Otherwise, we needed a QB, ... unless you're one of those people that actually believes Gailey, Mr. 10-22. LOL If Gailey were coaching the Browns you would all be laughing at him and his statements.

 

Just a couple of comments. There is an old football addage that states "you can't teach speed", and yet you seem to completely discount it.

 

Other than in the CFL, what did Doug Flutie ever win?

 

When you state you did research really what you did was look at some stats. I could be wrong but I am guessing that you did not scout Graham or Wilson or anyone else for that matter. Again I could be wrong but I assume you had no film other than perhaps high

Iights on YouTube of any player. And yet you have a better grasp on talent than an entire NFL scouting and coaching staff.

[Luxy312]

I'm not saying late-round QB's never make it; only that it's rare.

 

Examples:

 

2008: 9 QB's drafted after round 2-- potentially 1 will start (Matt Flynn in Seattle)

2009: 8 QB's drafted after round 2--none of them starting

2010: 12 QB's drafted after round 2--potentially 1 will start (John Skelton in Arizona)

2011: 6 QB's drafted after round 2--none of them starting

 

In sum, over the last 4 years, you've seen 35 QB's drafted in the 3rd round or lower. From that group, you have, at most, two marginal starting QB's--both of whom are in neck-and-neck QB competitions.

 

People love to ignore simple facts from this very good prior post. If Wilson goes on to do anything in the NFL, it will be against the odds. It's easy to sit back today and say that Bills should have drafted "X". There is no question that they needed a WR. I don't think there's any doubt that Gilmore was the right pick in the first round and that passing on Glenn in round 2 would have been a huge mistake. That leaves them moving up to grab a position of need. They did not need a project to sit on the bench for a year with the possibility that they might need a QB next year. If you actually go back and look at 3rd round WR's drafted over the last 10 years, you will see lots of guys that have had success in the NFL. A far greater amount of success than 3rd round QB's.

 

In this case, Carroll said himself that he's being unconventional. Normally the starter for the season starts the first 3 quarters of game 3. In his words: "This is about competition. That’s what we’ve always been about. If somebody doesn’t see it that way, then they just don’t understand us.” Wilson isn't necessarily the starter for the regular season. This is just a chance for Carroll to see what he can do against a first team defense, which he hasn't faced yet.