Seau brain was damaged (CTE), family sues NFL

[Rob's House]

 

 

its pretty standard issue that employers cannot misrepresent the risks of a job intentionally. thats wrong, and will receive punishment, rightfully so. how that gets doled out might be debatable but i dont see how anyone can argue "who cares if nfl doctors have been lying to players about health issues"

 

sure, its not a black and white issue where one side is totally at fault. the nfl is going to lose money on this and seau lost some of his brain function. he assumed a certain amount of risk, just like the nfl did when they made statements as to the safety of the profession to their employees. everyone is a loser here. i dont think splitting the blame is "mamby pamby" on this one.

If something really egregious came out I might change my tune, but this looks like another instance of trying to find someone to blame where assigning blame really isn't necessary. More so, it looks like someone else abusing the judicial system in a case that probably shouldn't even make it past the pleadings.

 

Perhaps I'm just becoming jaded.

[26CornerBlitz]

How about 20, 30 years from now? After a generation of new research and information regarding the impact of multiple concussions on young, developing brains? I know parents, myself included, who won't let their kids play Pop Warner anymore and that's based on information that's come forth in just the last five years. There is a very real potential for huge swaths of talent pools to go dry moving forward. At the very least, the potential for he game itself to evolve to a less violent version is a distinct possibility.GO BILLS!!!

 

I'm guessing that there at some point will be a World Virtual Football League (WVFL) with real players doing physical actions in a completely computer generated environment with virtual teammates against virtual opponents with audiences viewing the games on web enabled devices.

 

Players could "virtually" knock the crap out of each other with no physical damage.

 

I should trademark this idea now.

Edited January 24, 2013 by 26CornerBlitz

[NoSaint]

 

 

I'm guessing that there at some point there will be a World Virtual Football League (WVFL) with real players doing physical actions in a completely computer generated environment with virtual teammates against virtual opponents with audiences viewing the games on web enabled devices.

 

Players could "virtually" knock the crap out of each other with no physical damage.

 

I should trademark this idea now.

 

madden 2026

[26CornerBlitz]

madden 2026

 

Yep.

[dave mcbride]

I'm guessing that there at some point will be a World Virtual Football League (WVFL) with real players doing physical actions in a completely computer generated environment with virtual teammates against virtual opponents with audiences viewing the games on web enabled devices.

 

Players could "virtually" knock the crap out of each other with no physical damage.

 

I should trademark this idea now.

I think football will stick around, but I could see it becoming like NASCAR -- a regionally oriented sport that's huge in its region (the South, just like NASCAR) but more marginal in other parts of the country. It'll still be big, just like NASCAR is big, but it won't be the national behemoth it currently is. I can see blue states giving up on youth football much more than I can see deep southern states abandoning it given its place in the culture (i.e., Alabama). I'm not saying this is going to happen, but I could see it. I live in the northeast, and I don't know anyone who lets there kids play tackle. That said, NFL-sponsored flag leagues for kids are hugely popular where I live (Brooklyn). Along with baseball, it's my son's favorite sport to play. It's actually a great sport.

Edited January 24, 2013 by dave mcbride

[ACor58]

http://www.latimes.c...0,1438253.story

 

I have spoken with someone that knows Junior Seau (even went to his funeral). His family is part of the reason that he committed suicide. There were many of them (parents, siblings, cousins) that were on the payroll. His business was failing and he had no other sources of income. This was his way out.

 

They are scum.

[eme123]

This guy rammed his head against other muscle heads in the NFL, NCAA, High School, Pee Wee, in his backyard, etc, etc.

 

So now the NFL, NCAA, School, Pee Wee team and the current owner of his childhood back yard must pay!! Its everyones fault but Seau's that he has "CTE" (invented in 2008) and ultimately killed himself. Seau had no part in his decision to play football. He was forced. Its everyone else's fault!

 

Give his family their millions, raise our insurance rates, and get on with it. F'n stories like this irritate me.

[Mango]

I've said it before. These lawsuit will hurt the integrity of the NFL and the sport in general. Depending on their outcome, I wouldn't be surprised to see football fail the test of time. It will start with the pop Warner teams. Insurance companies won't insure leagues with football. That will move to High schools. Essentially ruining the feeder programs. Your D3 and low end or state school D1 programs won't be able to carry insurance and the NFL will fall. It may take 100 years but if these suits are successful, this will be the result.

[K-9]

This guy rammed his head against other muscle heads in the NFL, NCAA, High School, Pee Wee, in his backyard, etc, etc.

 

So now the NFL, NCAA, School, Pee Wee team and the current owner of his childhood back yard must pay!! Its everyones fault but Seau's that he has "CTE" (invented in 2008) and ultimately killed himself. Seau had no part in his decision to play football. He was forced. Its everyone else's fault!

 

Give his family their millions, raise our insurance rates, and get on with it. F'n stories like this irritate me.

 

Invented in 2008? Not even close. CTE has been known to affect boxers since the 1920s. Perhaps you're referring to when Boston University formed a center to study CTE?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[NoSaint]

 

 

Invented in 2008? Not even close. CTE has been known to affect boxers since the 1920s. Perhaps you're referring to when Boston University formed a center to study CTE?

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

no - doctors didnt DISCOVER it in the 20s, they INVENTED it in a test tube in 2008 and have been injecting football players with it ever since. helps keep them busy and funded... obviously.

[Mr. WEO]

Football will be around for another 100 years? I can live with that.

 

Comparisons of this issue (someone above did) to asbestos workers are completely invalid. The dangers of asbestos are occult. The dangers of football are abundantly ovious even to casual observers, let alone someone who has played the game since his childhood at the highest levels.

 

This will be a nearly impossible suit for this family to win at this time.

 

Few individuals who played the game displayed the desire to play as much as Seau did. He retired after 16 years in the NFL--then unretired just 4 days later. It's impossible to believe he would have left the game anytime sooner in his career no matter what was known about the long term risks of concussions. Many of his former coaches will testify of how he would play hurt or not report his true degree of injury just so he could keep playing.

 

There is no causal link between CTE and suicide. There is no expert who can say there is on the witness stand. In fact any such witness will likely have to concede the possibility that all NFL players woudl show Tau protiens in their brains if they were to have an autopsy today. He would also have to concede that, despite this, NFL players in middle age do not have a higher incidence of suicide than the general public inthe same age group.

 

There will be much more revealed about Seau's life in discovery for this suit. I bet a lot of it will cast doubt on CTE or concussion realted brain injury as the cause of his suicide.

 

The following is going to be very difficult to prove:

 

"The NFL knew or suspected that any rule changes that sought to recognize that link (to brain disease) and the health risk to NFL players would impose an economic cost that would significantly and adversely change the profit margins enjoyed by the NFL and its teams,"

 

So, first they will have to prove that CTE caused his suicide. Then they will have to prove that the NFL knew this was likely to happen and hid this knowledge from Seau. Then they would have to convince the jury that Seau had no assumed risk.

 

I don't see this as a successful suit. The NFL won't settle.

[K-9]

Football will be around for another 100 years? I can live with that.

 

Comparisons of this issue (someone above did) to asbestos workers are completely invalid. The dangers of asbestos are occult. The dangers of football are abundantly ovious even to casual observers, let alone someone who has played the game since his childhood at the highest levels.

 

This will be a nearly impossible suit for this family to win at this time.

 

Few individuals who played the game displayed the desire to play as much as Seau did. He retired after 16 years in the NFL--then unretired just 4 days later. It's impossible to believe he would have left the game anytime sooner in his career no matter what was known about the long term risks of concussions. Many of his former coaches will testify of how he would play hurt or not report his true degree of injury just so he could keep playing.

 

There is no causal link between CTE and suicide. There is no expert who can say there is on the witness stand. In fact any such witness will likely have to concede the possibility that all NFL players woudl show Tau protiens in their brains if they were to have an autopsy today. He would also have to concede that, despite this, NFL players in middle age do not have a higher incidence of suicide than the general public inthe same age group.

 

There will be much more revealed about Seau's life in discovery for this suit. I bet a lot of it will cast doubt on CTE or concussion realted brain injury as the cause of his suicide.

 

The following is going to be very difficult to prove:

 

"The NFL knew or suspected that any rule changes that sought to recognize that link (to brain disease) and the health risk to NFL players would impose an economic cost that would significantly and adversely change the profit margins enjoyed by the NFL and its teams,"

 

So, first they will have to prove that CTE caused his suicide. Then they will have to prove that the NFL knew this was likely to happen and hid this knowledge from Seau. Then they would have to convince the jury that Seau had no assumed risk.

 

I don't see this as a successful suit. The NFL won't settle.

 

Just to play devil's advocate, is there a causal link between CTE and depression?

 

There is definitely a causal link between depression and suicide.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[eme123]

Invented in 2008? Not even close. CTE has been known to affect boxers since the 1920s. Perhaps you're referring to when Boston University formed a center to study CTE?

 

GO BILLS!!!

no - doctors didnt DISCOVER it in the 20s, they INVENTED it in a test tube in 2008 and have been injecting football players with it ever since. helps keep them busy and funded... obviously.

 

The term was "invented". As you said, people have known since the 1920's that getting hit in the head too many times is not good. In 2008 scholars decided they needed to give it a fancy name and open some school at an important university so they can make money. I'd say it worked.

 

Its really a simple thing. If you don't want to end up with brain damage don't wack your head over and over again. Whats to study? It needs a name?

[K-9]

The term was "invented". As you said, people have known since the 1920's that getting hit in the head too many times is not good. In 2008 scholars decided they needed to give it a fancy name and open some school at an important university so they can make money. I'd say it worked.

 

Its really a simple thing. If you don't want to end up with brain damage don't wack your head over and over again. Whats to study? It needs a name?

 

Well, if you want to get technical about it, the term "CTE" was first used in medical journals in 1996 and became the preferred medical term vs. "pugilistic dementia." The point is that the pathology of the disease has been studied since the 1920s.

 

I think your description of Boston University's research into the disease as just a way to "make money" is rather cynical and short-sighted. Whether or not anyone relates their research to bolstering a case in a lawsuit has nothing to do with the fact that what they are finding out is a great public service to those who never considered that concussions, especially in other sports and in young children, can have such devastating effects on the brain.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[NoSaint]

 

 

Well, if you want to get technical about it, the term "CTE" was first used in medical journals in 1996 and became the preferred medical term vs. "pugilistic dementia." The point is that the pathology of the disease has been studied since the 1920s.

 

I think your description of Boston University's research into the disease as just a way to "make money" is rather cynical and short-sighted. Whether or not anyone relates their research to bolstering a case in a lawsuit has nothing to do with the fact that what they are finding out is a great public service to those who never considered that concussions, especially in other sports and in young children, can have such devastating effects on the brain.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

it totally ignores the article i posted up thread about breakthroughs in diagnosing living patients, and i would assume the corresponding treatment once identified

 

but why would we want to research the brain.... seems like a waste - just a bunch of goop between your ears anyway.

 

i think this will be a very interesting case, for exactly the exchange that you and WEO just had. its certainly some grey area and im curious to see where the final responsibility will lie (or more appropriately, what the split will be).

Edited January 24, 2013 by NoSaint

[K-9]

it totally ignores the article i posted up thread about breakthroughs in diagnosing living patients, and i would assume the corresponding treatment once identified

 

but why would we want to research the brain.... seems like a waste - just a bunch of goop between your ears anyway.

 

i think this will be a very interesting case, for exactly the exchange that you and WEO just had. its certainly some grey area and im curious to see where the final responsibility will lie (or more appropriately, what the split will be).

 

Agreed. But why stop there? Why study any part of the human body for that matter? I mean it's football, you know you run the risk of an ACL tear or separated shoulder, etc. You don't want to injure yourself, then don't play. Period. It's simple really.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Biggest NFL-related news in the past week: http://www.theatlant...ootball/267412/ I'm suprised it's not being discussed here.

 

It was brought up. I believe it was SDS who envisioned that our world would eventually not include tackle football as we know it.

 

At the time, I mentioned that at one point earlier in this century, that boxing, baseball, and horse racing were the three most popular sports.

 

Things do change and football however wildly popular is not immune to societal forces.

 

Or, he cared so much about wanting to play football at the highest possible level that he chose to do steroids (assuming he did). Even if what you say is true. The does not excuse the NFL. Problem with that is now the flood gates open for the family of every ex football player with a lawyer looking to get paid.

 

It's a problem? I think it's merely reality. For the longest time now our society has revolved around business and law. The tobacco industry has survived massive litigation. I don't think litigation is the biggest threat to the NFL. I believe the health threat to players (diminishing the talent pool) is.

 

What about the NCAA? He played there too. I would think that someone could make a reasonable argument that he may have had the condition before he even set foot on an NFL field. Without the the thought that it definitely came from the NFL, this suit should have no leg to stand on.

 

There's no saying that the NCAA won't be a defendant in future legal actions if they haven't already been. With the pretty recent increase in documentation of head injuries and the accompanying protocols, I foresee the NCAA definitely being defendants and/or co-defendants with the NFL in these cases.

 

This guy rammed his head against other muscle heads in the NFL, NCAA, High School, Pee Wee, in his backyard, etc, etc. So now the NFL, NCAA, School, Pee Wee team and the current owner of his childhood back yard must pay!! Its everyones fault but Seau's that he has "CTE" (invented in 2008) and ultimately killed himself. Seau had no part in his decision to play football. He was forced. Its everyone else's fault! Give his family their millions, raise our insurance rates, and get on with it. F'n stories like this irritate me.

 

Your anger and emotion while real and understandable don't really have any place in the discussion.

 

This is business and law. Cases with zero merit will probably be thrown out. Cases with strong merit will be heard. Some cases will reach a verdict and others will be settled out of court.

 

The NFL denied that concussions were a threat to the players' health. They even said that there was no increased risk of another concussion in the aftermath of a first concussion. EVERYONE now knows that this is untrue.

 

The NFL lied repeatedly and suppressed studies which conflicted with their own "studies" for over a decade.

 

The other thing that people need to understand but largely don't is that when you talk about NFL players, you're talking about many different "classes."

 

The people bringing up boxing in the 20s etc are missing that it was a given that boxing caused brain injuries but that football didn't have the same linkage.

 

Guys used to wear leather helmets. They tackled with their shoulders.

 

It wasn't until fairly recently (perhaps the Jack Tatum era circa 1970-80) that the nature of pro football changed towards a more violent and ruthless model. The use of the helmet as a weapon has been on the rise and with it concussions have slowly increased.

 

My point about classes is that there are at least three different eras (classes) of players:

 

1) Those from eras who had zero understanding of head injuries. Every once in awhile you "got your bell rung" and your teammates would joke about it and tease you. Reading books like Instant Replay and Paper Lion, this was the extent of players understanding of head injuries at least through the early to mid 70s.

 

2) Those players who perhaps had some inkling about the seriousness of head injuries but were in denial about it both because they needed the job (money, prestige, ego) AND because the NFL told them that there was nothing to worry about.

 

3) Players who've come into the league within the last 5 years who would have to be as gullible and naive as Manti Te'o to think that head injuries are no big deal.

 

I believe that there were some players including POSSIBLY Junior Seau who didn't realize the seriousness of head injuries until later in their careers. Remember, Seau was a rookie in 1990. That's over 20 years ago. I put Seau in the second class.

 

Also in this second class were guys like Troy Aikman and Steve Young who both retired around 1999-2000. These guys suffered repeated concussions and were smart enough to leave the game. They clearly had some inkling and were not in denial like some of their contemporaries.

 

This is another broad and deep issue which does not lend itself to shallow takes.

[Tcali]

To me it's similar to workers being in an asbestos filled environment and an employer telling the the rank and file that there's no threat to their health. Year after year, the employer knows better while continually denying any relationship between a pattern of health issues and the working environment. Then it's subsequently revealed that the company had actual medical evidence to the contrary.

 

This scenario has been repeated often in various industries and is the reason OSHA exists today.

 

In the case of the tobacco industry, they lied about the medical evidence that clearly showed there were major health risks associated with using their products. Couple with the fact that the industry created and included additives in their products that made them even more addictive. In many cases, people couldn't quit smoking because of their powerful addictions.

 

The industry lost billions of dollars in lawsuits because of their lies and greed at the risk of people's health.

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed. The recently discovered link between head trauma and ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease) makes this even worse.

 

I have to respectfully and completely disagree with your reasoning. people were smoking at a very high rate before the surgeon generals warnings came out. And people --in a high % of families--were directly witnessing smokers who got cancer,emphysema and various other cancers.

It was a matter of common sense that people should have known the risk--no matter what bs the tobacco companies were putting out.

that horrible smokers hack,the early deaths...all that was quite apparent before the surgeon general's warnings. Common sense existed before 1965.

Blaming tobacco companies for not telling them that sucking hot brown smoke into their lungs all day was gonna hurt...believing these co.s when they said that this wasnt dangerous--is willful ignorance.people knew damn well that this was extremely dangerous. They just enjoyed their cigarrettes--as people should.If u r gonna kill yourself a decade earlier than a non-smoker then more power to you.You should get plenty of pleasure out of the act of smoking if you do it. Why not?--But dont take a vice..one that you never really wanted to quit---and blame the cigarrette manufacturer for your cancer.Thats willful ignorance at best.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Tcali

[26CornerBlitz]

I have to respectfully and completely disagree with your reasoning. people were smoking at a very high rate before the surgeon generals warnings came out. And people --in a high % of families--were directly witnessing smokers who got cancer,emphysema and various other cancers.

It was a matter of common sense that people should have known the risk--no matter what bs the tobacco companies were putting out.

that horrible smokers hack,the early deaths...all that was quite apparent before the surgeon general's warnings. Common sense existed before 1965.

Blaming tobacco companies for not telling them that sucking hot brown smoke into their lungs all day was gonna hurt...believing these co.s when they said that this wasnt dangerous--is willful ignorance.people knew damn well that this was extremely dangerous. They just enjoyed their cigarrettes--as people should.If u r gonna kill yourself a decade earlier than a non-smoker then more power to you.You should get plenty of pleasure out of the act of smoking if you do it. Why not?--But dont take a vice..one that you never really wanted to quit---and blame the cigarrette manufacturer for your cancer.Thats willful ignorance at best.

 

Despite your personal opinion, That's not the decision that the courts rendered in the class action suit that multiple State Attorneys General brought and won....costing the tobacco companies Billions of Dollars.

 

http://academic.udayton.edu/health/syllabi/tobacco/summary.htm

 

http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/what_we_do/industry_watch/doj_lawsuit/

Edited January 25, 2013 by 26CornerBlitz

[Rob's House]

Does anyone have a link to these reports where the NFL claimed that concussions were completely harmless?