BillsVet Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 If you're going to radically switch defenses, during a massive rebuild would be the best time, no? Or are you implying we should wait until we are on the cusp of the playoffs to switch defenses? The problem wasn't the timing of the switch, it's that they didn't do it whole-heartedly. If you're going to convert from a Tampa 2 to a 3-4 and don't staff it, what's the point of changing? Buffalo couldn't stop anyone with either defense from 2006-2011, and it only got worse from 2010 to 2011 in Nix and Gailey's first two seasons. It also stands to reason they'd commit to finding the most important pieces to the 3-4, the NT and OLB's. Instead, they miscast Kyle Williams as a NT, Chris Kelsay as an OLB, and signed the now departed Shawne Merriman to be the other OLB. Compare that to how Green Bay went from 40 to 30 front in 2008-09 (hiring Capers, drafting Raji and Matthews Jr.) or Pittsburgh upon hiring a former T2 DC in Tomlin. They either didn't change defenses, or drafted well to hasten the transition.
Captain Hindsight Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 If you're going to convert from a Tampa 2 to a 3-4 and don't staff it, what's the point of changing? Buffalo couldn't stop anyone with either defense from 2006-2011, and it only got worse from 2010 to 2011 in Nix and Gailey's first two seasons. It also stands to reason they'd commit to finding the most important pieces to the 3-4, the NT and OLB's. Instead, they miscast Kyle Williams as a NT, Chris Kelsay as an OLB, and signed the now departed Shawne Merriman to be the other OLB. Compare that to how Green Bay went from 40 to 30 front in 2008-09 (hiring Capers, drafting Raji and Matthews Jr.) or Pittsburgh upon hiring a former T2 DC in Tomlin. They either didn't change defenses, or drafted well to hasten the transition. Remember when every other thread back when Dickie J was the coach was about how switching to the 3-4 was the only way to compete in the league?
eball Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 yet - how is it that magic Dick was able to win 7 games each year with all of non-talent that Chan/Bix absolutely had to turnover Is that all ya got? I'm disappointed.
transient Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 You're neglecting to recognize the same single thought that any and all coaches have: "That's how he played before, but let's see what I can do with him". Cutting Trent upon arriving would have been a huge mistake, given the "Offensive Geniuses" he had as coordinators and coaches under the Jauron regime. The new guys werent going to turn this team around in the first year anyways. Better to take that year slow and see what you have in order to get a clearer plan for building towards the future. And Dick Jauron did NOT do better with the QBs. Our QBs, and offense in general, were HORRIBLE. It was his vanilla bend-but-dont-break defense that held final scores to 13-10, 9-6, etc that kept us in games. Unfortunately, our pitiful offense being commanded by pitiful QBs kept us out of them. Fitz's game against the Bengals (under Gailey) was our first 300 yard passer performance since Jim Kelly. So no, Jauron did NOT do more with less. To your last point, Bledsoe had several 400+ yard games and a number of 300+ yard games, albeit not with Jauron. JP also put up several 300+ yard games, including 2 in 2006 under Jauron. Just sayin.
Joe W Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 Gailey is exactly what his record at Georgia Texh said he was - a career mediocrity 7 and 5 every year beating up cupcakes and losing annually to the good teams like Georgia. He and Nix are pure second tier unfortunately a new pair will have to be hired soon and the next rebuild starts anew.
snamsnoops Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 Is anyone really suggesting, with a straight face, that Gailey/Nix are no better than Jauron/Levy because they took a 7-9/6-10 team and turned it into a 4-12/6-10 team? I chalked it up to the part were they stated "we are rebuilding". Fans like to think that when a new GM|HC are brought in to take over a terrible, i mean terrible bills team and make all the correct decisions and post winning seasons right from the start! This is the same reason that 99% of those people also watch football from the coach and aren't a coach on a team. It's easy to complain.
tennesseeboy Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 I'm not impressed by his won/lost record over time. Its a combination of poor judgement, less than opportunistic trading and drafting, and until recently disingenuous decision making in free agency. Williams may be a break from that last issue. All said and done, if there aren't nine or more wins this year we should get another coach and gm.
ganesh Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 He started Trent over Fitz(I know he looks great in practice), Spiller and Lynch over Jackson, allowed Kelsay and Johnson to play OLB, Moats was moved to ILB, played Levitre at center, kept Batten on an NFL roster, has now moved Carrington from DE to OLB to DT, and thought Merriman could play a 4-3 DE. Looks like he was right about Evans, correctly moved Wood to center, and will likely be right about Maybin. I like Gailey as a play caller but not sold on his HC responsibilites for managing the entire roster. Your thoughts... Other obvious misfires: 1. Retaining Edwards as DC (or hiring him in the 1st place) 2. Toying with Levitre at LT and Center 3. Horrible 2nd half adjustments on game day. 4. Non-use of Brad Smith for an entire season after paying him a 15M contract 5. Inability to find that 2nd WR after Donald Jones went down (Kept claiming that his scheme doesn't need a real 2nd WR) If you're going to convert from a Tampa 2 to a 3-4 and don't staff it, what's the point of changing? Buffalo couldn't stop anyone with either defense from 2006-2011, and it only got worse from 2010 to 2011 in Nix and Gailey's first two seasons. It also stands to reason they'd commit to finding the most important pieces to the 3-4, the NT and OLB's. Instead, they miscast Kyle Williams as a NT, Chris Kelsay as an OLB, and signed the now departed Shawne Merriman to be the other OLB. Compare that to how Green Bay went from 40 to 30 front in 2008-09 (hiring Capers, drafting Raji and Matthews Jr.) or Pittsburgh upon hiring a former T2 DC in Tomlin. They either didn't change defenses, or drafted well to hasten the transition. And to strengthen your argument....Wade Phillips took over a horrible Houston defense and turned it into a top-5 defense...Mario played 5 games and had 5 sacks and after Mario departed, they still did not miss a beat. You really need an experienced DC to run the 3-4 and Edwards cannot even hold his JockStrap to a Phillips or Capers...We could have had Romeo Crennel last year, but Gailey refused to fire Edwards...and we continued to have a mediocre run defense.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 I'm not impressed by his won/lost record over time. Its a combination of poor judgement, less than opportunistic trading and drafting, and until recently disingenuous decision making in free agency. Williams may be a break from that last issue. All said and done, if there aren't nine or more wins this year we should get another coach and gm. You might want to look up the definition of disingenuous. Also, you harped on the 9-win thing last season so actually in keeping to that, I guess you think the Bills should have replaced Gailey and Nix already. Few have yet has expressed this point but I'm sure some have thought it: I have more confidence in Nix as a GM than I do Gailey as a HC. IF things were to go south on the season, I could see a scenario where Buddy is retained but Gailey is fired. I like Chan, and am rooting for him, but continue to have reservations as to whether he's the right guy for the job.
ganesh Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 You might want to look up the definition of disingenuous. Also, you harped on the 9-win thing last season so actually in keeping to that, I guess you think the Bills should have replaced Gailey and Nix already. Few have yet has expressed this point but I'm sure some have thought it: I have more confidence in Nix as a GM than I do Gailey as a HC. IF things were to go south on the season, I could see a scenario where Buddy is retained but Gailey is fired. I like Chan, and am rooting for him, but continue to have reservations as to whether he's the right guy for the job. I understand what you say. Unfortunately, no one else wanted the Bills Job 2-seasons ago, in spite of Mr. Wilson willing to open up his check book.
CodeMonkey Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) The game this Saturday should show everyone a lot. The Steelers looked pretty sound against the Colts. This upcoming dress rehersal game should go a long way to showing just what the Bills have this season, particularly on offense. There should be no "no game planning" or "vanilla" type excuses available come Sunday morning. We will see what we will see. Edited August 21, 2012 by CodeMonkey
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 I understand what you say. Unfortunately, no one else wanted the Bills Job 2-seasons ago, in spite of Mr. Wilson willing to open up his check book. That's true. On the other hand, I think Nix has built a very attractive roster… one which would have greater appeal to Head Coaching candidates than the one that Gailey walked into.
Gugny Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 I didn't read through all of the responses to the OP's post. All I can say is Chan Gailey has done more positive after two years than Williams, Mularkey and Jauron did in all of their years combined. Hands down. Go Bills.
Nukethis Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 He started Trent over Fitz(I know he looks great in practice), Spiller and Lynch over Jackson, allowed Kelsay and Johnson to play OLB, Moats was moved to ILB, played Levitre at center, kept Batten on an NFL roster, has now moved Carrington from DE to OLB to DT, and thought Merriman could play a 4-3 DE. Looks like he was right about Evans, correctly moved Wood to center, and will likely be right about Maybin. I like Gailey as a play caller but not sold on his HC responsibilites for managing the entire roster. Your thoughts... They also allowed stellar <eyeroll> players to move on like TE Shawn Nelson, Donte Whitner, Demetress (2nd string in philly) Bell, Brian Brohm, Marshawn Lynch, Marcus Stroud, Drayton Florence, Jonathan Stupar,Chris Ellis, Roscoe Parrish, Poz, the list goes on. Theres hits and misses in the NFL and every team has them. It doesnt make you a drooling idiot to give Buddy and Chan credit if you feel theyre better at positions now by swapping out better players. The worst of the drooling idiots left when Donahoe and Dick Jauron finally were purged and 2 guys who live and breathe football were paired together. I feel strongly that the Bills ship is being righted and its back on course.
thewildrabbit Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 Other obvious misfires: 1. Retaining Edwards as DC (or hiring him in the 1st place) 2. Toying with Levitre at LT and Center 3. Horrible 2nd half adjustments on game day. 4. Non-use of Brad Smith for an entire season after paying him a 15M contract 5. Inability to find that 2nd WR after Donald Jones went down (Kept claiming that his scheme doesn't need a real 2nd WR) And to strengthen your argument....Wade Phillips took over a horrible Houston defense and turned it into a top-5 defense...Mario played 5 games and had 5 sacks and after Mario departed, they still did not miss a beat. You really need an experienced DC to run the 3-4 and Edwards cannot even hold his JockStrap to a Phillips or Capers...We could have had Romeo Crennel last year, but Gailey refused to fire Edwards...and we continued to have a mediocre run defense. Yeah,what he said. Its tough on this fan to see that both Nix / Gailey are in a "learn as you go mode" in Buffalo when they should be so far ahead of the curve in terms of how much experience each one has. I look at someone like Bill Cowher and if he were to take over as HC he probably could have easily made the switch from a 4-3 to 3-4 because he knows which coaches to hire and what type of players he wants to draft. So that transition would have been so much better. The defense would have actually improved greatly IMO. Stating that, wannstache should have this rebuilt 4-3 with a decent pass rush in the top 15 this year. Now its up to Chan Gailey to prove his doubters wrong. Show us that you can make the adjustmments, that you can scheme more then just a short quick passing game, that you can run the ball in a closed formation, that you can make that 5 WR set work with one decent WR, that CJ Spiller was worth a #1, 9th overall pick, that you can field a winning team! Like I said, I'm pulling for Chan Gailey to get it done this season.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 This is where we, as fans, have an advantage. You have to remember that the new regimes that come in aren't long-time fans of the team. This is a problem when it comes to evaluating talent quickly. As fans, we've watched every single game (many live), and have seen players play in real-game situations against a variety of opponents and over long stretches of time. Believe it or not, knowledgeable fans probably have a leg-up on a new regime that comes in and has a short period of time to review some game tape and make quick roster decisions. One example: Jabari Greer. I think most fans saw his potential back from day 1, after seeing him play through pre-seasons and in limited game action as a nickel and dime back. Yet it took at least 2 years before Jauron and co. figured it out and started him.
Sisyphean Bills Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 At the end of the day, he's turned over almost half of the roster in 3 years. This is exactly what was needed after 12 years of mediocre teams. Plus, it's not instantaneous. It takes time. Longer if you spend time trying to overhaul for a defense that you dump after 2 years.
GG Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 The 2010 decisions & draft class continue to dog Nix & Gailey. It was an obvious mistake to switch to a 3-4 at that time and give the reigns to an unproven DC. The error was compounded by poor draft picks to fit a scheme the team no longer uses. When you have a washout year like that, it takes time to recover. Bills could have done themselves a bigger favor if they looked at more true LB help in the 2010 & 2011 drafts. Nix & co have done a decent job of getting FAs here this year and finding competent street FAs to fill roster spots, but you won't go far when you misfire on so many top draft picks.
Sisyphean Bills Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 If you're going to radically switch defenses, during a massive rebuild would be the best time, no? Or are you implying we should wait until we are on the cusp of the playoffs to switch defenses? The problem wasn't the timing of the switch, it's that they didn't do it whole-heartedly. The rebuild gameplan going in seemed to be to switch to the 3-4 to fix a defense that was undersized, hospitalized and ineffective, as well as to have Chan simply coach up the talent that was already on the offensive side of the ball. For the latter, let's face it, Dick hadn't exactly hired well on that side. One shouldn't dismiss the possibility that suggestions were made as well to the newly unretired GM and HC. The switch to the 3-4, though Nix had spent a career scouting for it, was an undeniable mistake; one that they have already turned away from. But, they did burn resources and time trying to make the switch. That first draft class is now looking like a complete flame out largely because it was a draft where they chased pieces for a 3-4 defense, a rebuilding strategic blunder. This is where we, as fans, have an advantage. You have to remember that the new regimes that come in aren't long-time fans of the team. This is a problem when it comes to evaluating talent quickly. As fans, we've watched every single game (many live), and have seen players play in real-game situations against a variety of opponents and over long stretches of time. Believe it or not, knowledgeable fans probably have a leg-up on a new regime that comes in and has a short period of time to review some game tape and make quick roster decisions. One example: Jabari Greer. I think most fans saw his potential back from day 1, after seeing him play through pre-seasons and in limited game action as a nickel and dime back. Yet it took at least 2 years before Jauron and co. figured it out and started him. Perhaps that's why many GMs hire coaches already in the league, to trade on their current knowledge and relationships? Gailey did have a brief stint with the Chiefs, I know, but he had been out of the NFL for a long time.
Billsrhody Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-12-27/jon-gruden-reportedly-plans-on-coaching-next-season Well if things don't work out this year.. we can always make a run at Gruden.
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