My completely uninformed opinion on the Bills' philosophy this pre

[54 Percent]

First time posting long time reader.

 

Just felt I needed to point out that the Patriots* went 0-4 in preseason the year they went 11-5 (missing the playoffs somehow). Also, the Lions went 4-0 in preseason the year they went 0-16. For what its worth, I still expect us to go to the playoffs with the schedule we have.

 

Go Bills!

[stinky finger]

By this logic, why play the starters at all? If the "53 man roster is set", why should there be any risk of injury to the starters?

 

The major injuries came well after opening day last year, not in preseason.

 

This.

 

Do those who think the "prime" players are laying down just to stay healthy, why play them at all?

 

Apparently, these are the same people who think we'll hit the proverbial "switch" and everythng will come together as planned right out of the gate week 1. What, cohesion has been established already?

 

We've established nothing as a unit but add individual talent.

 

I hope we're as good as many of you are making us out to be.

 

Personnally, I'd like some real time proof of this.....maybe in a preseason game would be nice.

[Mr. WEO]

By that logic why PLAY Rodgers or Brady in PS then? and are they giving 100%?

 

The OP would agree with you, i would imagine. It was his contention not mine. And he was stating this was Chan's plan specifically. Why mention Rodgers and Brady?

[Fan in San Diego]

You might be right. So far, both opposing HCs have done a lot more than put up a plain vanilla game plan against The Bills.

The new CBA has really made the off season a Twilight Zone of sorts. Conditioning and training isn't what it was two years ago. I think some coaches are eager to work more on packages and schemes because of the low level of hitting allowed in TC now. They're looking at PS games as a laboratory and training. Whereas Chan sticking to vanilla pudding. He's going to need to get them cranked up come September though. But if they come through the PS healthy - that's likely a better outcome than if two or three starters pop a nut in "meaningless" PS games.

 

I hope your right but it wouldn't hurt to practice game planning and see how well it worked!

[Nanker]

Our starting D got 3 sacks. Theirs got Zero.

[ko12010]

...is that Gailey & Co. have one, and only one, goal in mind -- open the season healthy. They aren't worried about gameplans and schemes and the 53-man roster is essentially set. There are a couple of position battles but all are for backup spots (QB, WR, LB), so they're letting those guys play to sort it out. As I'm watching the game, I see the rookies and "desperate" players going balls to the wall, while the vets are running at 75% speed.

 

This is the third year in the offense for Fitz so they don't have a learning curve. Wannstedt's defensive schemes aren't going to be complicated, and they have a lot of veterans out there.

 

I think Gailey has looked at what injuries have done to the roster, particularly last season, and he's bound and determined to start the year with a full tank of gas.

 

These games really are glorified scrimmages for the Bills; an opportunity to let the guys hit somebody in a different uniform and get into "football shape" for the only thing that matters -- September 9.

 

And note -- I'm not just writing this because the Bills are 0-2 and have looked spotty. I see a lot of good things. Fitz was on target last night and we were seeing Wood and Pears finally take some snaps. FredEx is FredEx. Donald Jones showed some real giddyup on that TD, and what can you say about Graham -- the bomb from Vince is exactly what they want from this kid, and he is definitely not intimidated out there. The DT tandem of Williams/Dareus got two sacks on the first drive with nothing more than a bull rush up the gut.

 

Discuss.

 

This is also my gut feeling (and hope). The thing is, I've never heard of a team kind of bagging it during preseason though. That's what it honestly looks like. And most people who have played contact sports know that playing at 75% speed is a good way to get hurt, especially when the opponent is going hard like Minnesota was.

 

However, we have made it through two preseason games healthy, so it is working. But last night was the first flicker of worry that I've had this offseason/preseason. They looked pretty damn bad, aside from Freddy.

 

So, I agree with you, but I'm also hoping that this is correct.

[eball]

I'm glad there's discussion; that was my hope. I'm not suggesting players aren't "trying" while they are out there, but veterans and entrenched starters know the preseason means nothing. Despite that, different coaches and organizations are trying to accomplish different things during PS. My supposition is that Gailey is not concerned at all with "scheming" or winning the games -- he wants to see good fundamentals, evaluate those last 3 or 4 spots he's trying to fill on the roster, and stay healthy. Someone mentioned that players not going 100% are at risk of injury; I'm not sure I agree. The REAL danger to players, I believe, is the desperate guy who is playing as though his life depends on it and going too far in an effort to impress the coaches.

 

To answer another question, I think you play the starters because they need to feel the speed of the game after a long offseason, and they need to "hit and be hit." Training camp is so non-physical these days the guys have to be able to take and deliver some shots so it's not completely foreign when the real games start. There's some truth to "finding a rhythm" by having your first units play a little bit. That still doesn't mean you're expecting guys to play at the same level they will in September.

 

In any event, what I saw out of the Bills' first teams last night didn't particularly discourage me, and I don't think it's the "same old thing" as the past 12 years.

[Ronin]

You might be right. So far, both opposing HCs have done a lot more than put up a plain vanilla game plan against The Bills.

 

 

Defensively the Vikes were pretty vanilla. Nothin' special going on there.

 

Offensively I agree was not straight two wides, a TE and a RB, but that too was hardly "creative."

 

Lots of reaching going on.

[The Wiz]

First time posting long time reader.

 

Just felt I needed to point out that the Patriots* went 0-4 in preseason the year they went 11-5 (missing the playoffs somehow). Also, the Lions went 4-0 in preseason the year they went 0-16. For what its worth, I still expect us to go to the playoffs with the schedule we have.

 

Go Bills!

I know this answer! The dolphins and jets also went 11-5 and the dolphins held the tie breaker over both teams.

 

As much as I would like to whole heartily agree, there is always that shadow of a doubt that it could be more of the same. I really do think they are going "Vanilla" as many of you have said. The defense hasn't shown anything that really looks like a blitz package and the offense has been going through the motions at best.

[Ronin]

I'm glad there's discussion; that was my hope. I'm not suggesting players aren't "trying" while they are out there, but veterans and entrenched starters know the preseason means nothing. Despite that, different coaches and organizations are trying to accomplish different things during PS. My supposition is that Gailey is not concerned at all with "scheming" or winning the games -- he wants to see good fundamentals, evaluate those last 3 or 4 spots he's trying to fill on the roster, and stay healthy. Someone mentioned that players not going 100% are at risk of injury; I'm not sure I agree. The REAL danger to players, I believe, is the desperate guy who is playing as though his life depends on it and going too far in an effort to impress the coaches.

 

To answer another question, I think you play the starters because they need to feel the speed of the game after a long offseason, and they need to "hit and be hit." Training camp is so non-physical these days the guys have to be able to take and deliver some shots so it's not completely foreign when the real games start. There's some truth to "finding a rhythm" by having your first units play a little bit. That still doesn't mean you're expecting guys to play at the same level they will in September.

 

In any event, what I saw out of the Bills' first teams last night didn't particularly discourage me, and I don't think it's the "same old thing" as the past 12 years.

 

Very good points, the players are trying and preseason is for the fundamentals. The outcomes of the games do not matter, but for some reason for many people that seems to translate into nothing matters, when it does. As you said, the fundamentals matter.

 

Having said that, and questioning your optimism as such, the fundamentals by the first teams were horrible except for the DL. The DL with only four men and no blitzing help put good pressure on Ponder the whole time generally speaking. When the Vikes succeeded it was usually due to weaknesses in the secondary and LB unit. And did you notice that Ponder made some plays on scrambles? Expect that from many of our opponents this season as they plan for a rabid pass rush by the front 4. But if the results were that with Ponder and the Vikes nominal cadre of WRs, what's it going to be like against some of the other teams?

 

There was no exhibition of good fundamentals on offense which only managed to score once the Vikes' second team D went in.

 

No, the scores do not matter, but individual performance against first team players does. Teams are not going to start their 2nd and 3rd teams in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarters of games so that our starters can shine, so how our backups perform against them is in fact even more meaningless than the scores of these games.

 

I see little basis for optimism. We know that Gailey isn't going to play the starters much in the 4th PS game, although he should, in the hopes that they can put something together consistently, even if only against the 2nd and 3rd teams of the Lions. So they pretty much have one half next week to get those fundamentals locked down. This isn't what Gailey in his third season should be working on in the preseason, he should be working on tweaking, not finding, the O.

Edited August 18, 2012 by TaskersGhost

[ko12010]

I'm probably reaching here, but how wild would it be if Gailey's plan is to not give the Jets even one thing to concretely gameplan for? Other than last season's tape.

 

That may honestly be the case.

 

But, if so, the worry has to be, as others have mentioned, the inability to switch it on out of the gate. The hardest part of our schedule is the first half. If these guys don't get mentally in the game we could build a hole for ourselves early.

 

I think this is the main concern. If healthy, our offense showed alot last year. They should at least be ranked between 10-15 this year. But...can our players turn it on week one? Against a team that has owned us.

[Ronin]

Who cares if its vanilla? Who cares if Gailey doesn't want to show his hand?

Neither do the other 31 teams.

Players need to execute the "vanilla" plays. The Bills haven't. 10-22 under this regime, The same receivers

from last year mostly suck. Or is it Gailey's "gameplan" to suck? I doubt it.

These are not the super bowl teams of past. This is a team that is10-22 under this regime. Worse than the DJ teams

Someone in the FO better be feeling some heat.

Vikings were 3-13 last year. Their first offense manhandled the bills on their first drive.

 

Best summary I've seen here in a long time!

[kenny3000]

best part of this whole post! u said it like a, i dont know what the word is, but u said it like something funny

 

Discuss.

[ko12010]

Best summary I've seen here in a long time!

 

I don't know about that. Gailey and his staff have their own agenda and we'll see when the regular season starts. But being overly negative and panicking so fast is not the "best summary I've seen here in a long time" it's actually the norm and serves no purpose really. I guess if complaining and being negative gets you through the day, that makes sense. But maybe people should just be a little patient and wait for the regular season.

[Pirate Angel]

It may have something to do with the fact that these guys dont start playing untill halfway through the 2nd quarter, It shouldnt happen that way but this team needs to get in a rhythm.

[spartacus]

Why do people still get caught up reading too much into those preseason games and already predicting doom and gloom for the season??? Did you forget last year preseason, when the first string offense failed to score a TD in 3 of the 4 games and everyone was going crazy?? We ended up starting the season with one of the highest scoring offenses in the league before losing key starters one by one to injuries... And as for the defense, I'll admit I'm a bit worried about our LB's but I trust Wanny to make adjusments when needed, don't you think that opposing offenses when they'll see a full game of our starting d-line that we won't get our share of turnovers and sacks?? Come on guys , preseason and regular season are two different animals...

 

selective memory

 

the Bills started the season playing like crap and fell behind both Oakland and NE by multiple TDs

sure they came back - but those early games point to the fact the bills started out the regular season, just like they played in the pre-season -

 

like crap - unprepared, unmotivated, uninspired

 

Chan is out of excuses - no playoffs and he should be canned

[Mike in Syracuse]

Our starting D got 3 sacks. Theirs got Zero.

 

Running a base 4-3 no less. Everyone wants to talk about how awful the Bills were last night but they're either not looking at the entirety of the play or they're just flat out making **** up. Sure there were things that could have gone better but it was FAR from the disaster that some are making it out to be. One of the nicest things about the NFL Preseason package is that you can replay specific plays and actually WATCH what happened or where the breakdown occurred. You armchair analysts are either really uninformed or really lazy....back up your freaking positions if you're going to cry.

 

Let's point out some things that are OBVIOUS if you actually look at the plays:

1. Harvin's first HUGE gain was the result of a missed tackle by Barnett on what was essentially a 1 yard pass. Followed by an absolutely awful call of unnecessary roughness

2. Simpson's huge gain (33yds) was the result of Anderson being 1/2 second slow getting his arms up. Gillmore giving him the inside and an absolutely hideous, if not embarassing, tackle attempt by Wilson. Shades of Eddie Robinson!

3. Gerhart's 16yd run up the middle was because Sheppard seems more interested in taking on a block than tackling the runner. It was this play that led to him still being in the game in the 3rd quarter.

4. On that very same offensive series we had two sacks. These sacks weren't the result of some amazing blitz package. The first sack happened because Kyle Williams basically shoved the Viking's starting center into Ponder. Straight up bull rush and Williams brought his lunchpail! The second sack I'll also credit Williams with because he straight up ran around his man.

5. On our opening series, two of our run plays were run into an oncoming (and obvious) run blitz. No audible

6. Fitz was spot on with his passes. If someone picks up Harrison Smith on his blitz that drive likely continues.

7. ALL OF PONDERS PASSES WERE EITHER SHORT DUMPS, ROLL-OUTS OR QUICK SLANTS. That's right, ALL OF HIS PASSES, with the exception of the broken flea flicker that Kelsay sniffed out. Every pass attempt that wasn't a roll out or quick pass was a sack. Those sacks came almost exclusively out of our BASE defense.

8. Despite the contention of some that the BIlls were getting waxed, the score It was 10-7 when the starters began rotating out of the game.

 

So if you're going to B word about how the Bills looked, I challenge you to put up the specific play and just it break down so you'll actually have some !@#$ing credibility.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Mike in Syracuse

[Matt in KC]

selective memory

 

the Bills started the season playing like crap and fell behind both Oakland and NE by multiple TDs

sure they came back - but those early games point to the fact the bills started out the regular season, just like they played in the pre-season -

 

like crap - unprepared, unmotivated, uninspired

 

Chan is out of excuses - no playoffs and he should be canned

Though of course they opened the season against Kansas City prepared, motivated and inspired.

 

The Oakland defense is nothing to sneeze at either. So their offense scored the first 3 TDs starting in the second quarter before we scored the next three. I don't think this means we played like it was preseason. It was a good close hard-fought game.

[Ronin]

I'm probably reaching here, but how wild would it be if Gailey's plan is to not give the Jets even one thing to concretely gameplan for? Other than last season's tape.

 

That may honestly be the case.

 

But, if so, the worry has to be, as others have mentioned, the inability to switch it on out of the gate. The hardest part of our schedule is the first half. If these guys don't get mentally in the game we could build a hole for ourselves early.

 

I think this is the main concern. If healthy, our offense showed alot last year. They should at least be ranked between 10-15 this year. But...can our players turn it on week one? Against a team that has owned us.

 

That's overthinking things.

 

The other option is that Gailey really doesn't know what he's doing.

 

And your question as to whether or not our players turn it on week one? Against a team that has owned us is a relevant one. They haven't turned it on offensively since what, week 6 last season, against a poor and beat-up Giants' D, and far from it this preseason, so why all of a sudden are they going to turn it on and pour on the coals against a good Jets' D to open the season, ... on the road?

 

There is no reason. It could happen, but the current pattern suggests strongly that it will not.

 

I know you're going to jump on my insinuation that Gailey isn't competent. But was Jauron? Obviously not. But people defended him the same way entering his third season too. Same for Williams, and in fact, particularly for Williams. Yet they were not good coaches, then, prior to, or after those seasons. The only difference was that many people, mostly Bills fans, didn't view it that way at the time.

 

We're now watching Gailey render himself incompetent in the matter, kind of like watching another person, often one's own child, try to do something but clearly failing or not doing it properly. We are merely sitting here watching Gailey make those kinds of mistakes and errors right now, just with many people not fully realizing it yet.

 

I think that a good coach could and would actually get a winning season from this team even if only a 9-7 season. I don't think Gailey will though.

[Ronin]

I don't know about that. Gailey and his staff have their own agenda and we'll see when the regular season starts. But being overly negative and panicking so fast is not the "best summary I've seen here in a long time" it's actually the norm and serves no purpose really. I guess if complaining and being negative gets you through the day, that makes sense. But maybe people should just be a little patient and wait for the regular season.

 

Well, I suppose that depends upon one's perspective then, doesn't it.

 

For those coming here and using the place to serve as an opiate, they'll have one perspective.

 

Is that what you think of most of the people posting here? I don't know, just asking.

 

Some of us really want to discuss the team objectively while realizing that being objective may not necessarily be what we all want. One is not allowed by the other by default, yet the one that is not allowed is typically the most realistic.

 

That first class of people are the ones that assume that Gailey was a good hire to begin with despite all of the evidence to the contrary. The second class see Gailey and his team for what it is and simply have the fortitude to point it out.

 

So those seeking an emotional high, they will necessarily view things differently than those of us that want the truth.

 

Though of course they opened the season against Kansas City prepared, motivated and inspired.

 

 

Yeah, they're usually good for one good emotional game up front after putting all their energy into that single game. Sometime soon after that is typically when the sizzling noise stops and the steak gets served cold. Remember the 2003 31-0 thrashing of the Pats to open the season and the 31-0 clobbering at their hands to close it?

 

'05 similar, 3-3 start, 2-8 finish.

 

'08 - 5-1, 2-8

 

Last season, 5-2, 1-8.

 

It's not a sprint.

 

Good coaching prevents that and has a team prepared for a full 16-game season. The Bills traditionally make a bunch of paper moves during the offseason, have to validate them, put everything into their first or first few games, and then go flat. That's what's happened in both of Gailey's seasons so far.

 

And let's not forget, Gailey was all about Edwards despite the fact that Edwards had more than proven himself a dud. Remember in training camp two years ago when he derided those kids for making fun of Edwards? Well, as it turns out, they were right, Gailey was wrong.

 

This will be the season that Gailey makes known to the world that he doesn't belong in a head-coaching role.

 

Maybe down the road sometime, instead of paying a single player a hundred million dollars, the braintrust at OBD will decide to put a fraction of that money into a decent and proven head coach instead of yet another failed retread or inexperienced cheap one.

 

If this season fails, don't blame Gailey or even Nix, despite the fact that they'll need to go, blame those that hired them and thought that it was a good idea. That's where the incompetence begins.

 

I'm quite certain that Belichick, for the d-bag that he is personally, or any number of other coaches in the NFL, would have this team be 10-6. It ain't happenin' on Gailey's watch.

Edited August 18, 2012 by TaskersGhost