dayman Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 http://video.msnbc.msn.com/now-with-alex-wagner/48704108/#48704108 So I was surprised to learn 42 dead in the last month. To be honest I hardly know anything about it, as some media personalities have been pointing out lately. Neither candidate wants to touch it in campaigning. Is it unreasonable to just want to say **** it...and leave? Like I said I don't really have very good info any articles or thoughts to convince me moving the time table to "tomorrow" is a bad idea? I just doubt we're going to build them into a solid secure place...
/dev/null Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 Is it unreasonable to just want to say **** it...and leave? That's been my opinion for some time. Also the opinion of several Afghanistan Vets I've met. They believe in the mission and still do. Problem is the Afghani's don't. You can lead a camel to water but can't make him drink. It's past time to leave
dayman Posted August 17, 2012 Author Posted August 17, 2012 That's been my opinion for some time. Also the opinion of several Afghanistan Vets I've met. They believe in the mission and still do. Problem is the Afghani's don't. You can lead a camel to water but can't make him drink. It's past time to leave I mean we all believe a secure Afghanistan is a good mission. But there's a reason it isn't...can't wrap my brain around how we're going to change that w/ out staying forever. We're obviously not going to do that. What gains over the next year or so are we really going to make that are worth more lives and money. We've killed a lot of al-qaeda but the people are still kind of nuts. We're not going to change that I just don't see how staying 1 minute longer is worth it.
B-Large Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) Time to leave, polish up the Forces for Iran if needed.... Edited August 17, 2012 by B-Large
DC Tom Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 Iraq, you might be able to build a nation. Afghanistan...a strongly tribal society with so little sense of national identity that they don't even recognize their own borders, and their "national" leader typically has almost no authority outside of Kabul. Yeah, building a liberal western-style democracy there had a snowball's chance in hell of of succeeding. Problem is...the American people buy in to the ridiculous neo-Victorian idea that we have to export democracy to the savages, because inside every Afghani (Somali/Iraqi/whoever else) is an American who just needs to be shown the way. So THAT mission isn't ending any time soon, stupid as it is.
3rdnlng Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 Iraq, you might be able to build a nation. Afghanistan...a strongly tribal society with so little sense of national identity that they don't even recognize their own borders, and their "national" leader typically has almost no authority outside of Kabul. Yeah, building a liberal western-style democracy there had a snowball's chance in hell of of succeeding. Problem is...the American people buy in to the ridiculous neo-Victorian idea that we have to export democracy to the savages, because inside every Afghani (Somali/Iraqi/whoever else) is an American who just needs to be shown the way. So THAT mission isn't ending any time soon, stupid as it is. Don't disagree with you. We went in there because they were harboring Al Quada and most everyone thought it was a good idea. What happens if we leave and they do the same schit? If drone strikes would keep them under control, we should be packing our bags tonight.
BillsFanM.D. Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 Time to leave, polish up the Forces for Iran if needed.... Hope you're wrong....but I, unfortunately, think you might be correct in your forward thinking. For now...let's just get the heck out of there and continue to drone as deemed necessary.
truth on hold Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 That's been my opinion for some time. Also the opinion of several Afghanistan Vets I've met. They believe in the mission and still do. Problem is the Afghani's don't. You can lead a camel to water but can't make him drink. It's past time to leave Guess its a matter who you talk to. 3 months ago I was talking to a guy whose brothers there and his feedback was its actually getting worse not better. And it doesn't matter when we leave. It's really incredible as an outsider like me how much we've spent there and how many we've killed an they just keep reforming. And lol @ idea some have expressed for redeploying to Iran. So we can't take out some loosely aligned cave dwellers with virtually no ability to strike out beyond their area, yet we can go into Iran who can close the strait of Hormuz. And who our well armed surrogate saddam couldn't take out after a prolonged war where a million iranians died.
dayman Posted August 17, 2012 Author Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) Guess its a matter who you talk to. 3 months ago I was talking to a guy whose brothers there and his feedback was its actually getting worse not better. And it doesn't matter when we leave. It's really incredible as an outsider like me how much we've spent there and how many we've killed an they just keep reforming. And lol @ idea some have expressed for redeploying to Iran. So we can't take out some loosely aligned cave dwellers with virtually no ability to strike out beyond their area, yet we can go into Iran who can close the strait of Hormuz. And who our well armed surrogate saddam couldn't take out after a prolonged war where a million iranians died. Meh we could probably !@#$ Iran up pretty easily. It's just building afterwords...so long as we are ready to just walk away we can do whatever we are built to !@#$ up a military cave dwellers are tougher... EDIT: That isn't to say that would be good at all btw lol...just saying...it's not like we couldn't topple Iran in war pretty easily so long as we just walk away from the pile when it's over and don't try to put it back together. Edited August 17, 2012 by TheNewBills
truth on hold Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) You're absolutely clueless. Cettainly one of the most ignorant posts on tbd. If you think we can just assassiNate some leaders and blow up some nuclear plants and walk away w/o repurcussion. Theyd desatbliIze the entire region with consequences impossible for us to forecast. Iran is a cohesive culture and a real military , wwith a far greater capacity to reform than a fragmented group of cave dwellers Edited August 17, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack
dayman Posted August 17, 2012 Author Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) You're absolutely clueless. Cettainly one of the most ignorant posts on tbd. If you think we can just assassiNate some leaders and blow up some nuclear plants and walk away w/o repurcussion. Theyd desatbliIze the entire region with consequences impossible for us to forecast. Iran is a cohesive culture and a real military , wwith a far greater capacity to reform than a fragmented group of cave dwellers Your point was "we can't take out some loosely organized cave dwellers"...my point was that is hard and that waging war against the Iranian regime is a different game. Toppling their regime in war that is, is different than stomping out anti-western sentiment from Afghan culture. And we could topple their regime. That is all I said there Joe-giggity Edited August 17, 2012 by TheNewBills
truth on hold Posted August 18, 2012 Posted August 18, 2012 Dont tell me what my point was because you can't read. My post was completely in the context of prolonged campaigns.
DC Tom Posted August 18, 2012 Posted August 18, 2012 Dont tell me what my point was because you can't read. My post was completely in the context of prolonged campaigns. Your point about the ineffectiveness of a strike on Iran was in the context of a prolonged campaign against cave dwellers that have showed no capability to strike outside their borders (except for 9/11, Bali, London, Kenya, Yemen)? You're a !@#$ing idiot.
truth on hold Posted August 18, 2012 Posted August 18, 2012 (edited) Taliban's carrying out military campaigns comparable to closing Strait of Hormuz outside Afghanistan (other than some guerilla stuff along border with Pakistan)where? Edited August 18, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack
ieatcrayonz Posted August 18, 2012 Posted August 18, 2012 Dont tell me what my point was because you can't read. My post was completely in the context of prolonged campaigns. He just probably misunderstood your Farsi. That happened to me. Can you help me translate the attached link? http://news.yahoo.com/tumour-israel-soon-destroyed-ahmadinejad-091548418.html I think Mahmoud has a man crush on Bibi but am probably just misinterpreting again.
truth on hold Posted August 18, 2012 Posted August 18, 2012 (edited) He just probably misunderstood your Farsi. That happened to me. Can you help me translate the attached link? http://news.yahoo.co...-091548418.html I think Mahmoud has a man crush on Bibi but am probably just misinterpreting again. Lol think it's because the object your affection "Bibi" is stumping for support within his cabinet to attack Iran http://www.haaretz.c...n-iran-1.393214 and even meddling in US elections to drag the world's only super power into it? Couple questions for you in plain English on Mahmoud and Bibs: - which one of them is on his way out, shunned by the electorate and governing body, whereas the other is strengthening his hold internally? - which one's country has no nuclear weapons, whereas the other's is widely considered (even by US) to have a stockpile of at least 300 of them? Hint: it's the same guy. Edited August 18, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 18, 2012 Posted August 18, 2012 Jeez... Afghanistan seems to be having alot of problems with gun violence. They should just ban guns. Then everything would be great.
WorldTraveller Posted August 18, 2012 Posted August 18, 2012 I don't even know what we're arguing here?
Nanker Posted August 18, 2012 Posted August 18, 2012 US casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan. Seems to me, the public and the media are cutting a certain someone a huge amount of slack. I remember the constant drumbeat of casualty counting in the Iraq mess. Anyone realize we've lost over 2,000 in Afghanistan so far? I missed the banners and trumpets announcing the magic 1,000 and 2,000 lives lost. Sure heard it a lot during OIF.
Jauronimo Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 Guess its a matter who you talk to. 3 months ago I was talking to a guy whose brothers there and his feedback was its actually getting worse not better. And it doesn't matter when we leave. It's really incredible as an outsider like me how much we've spent there and how many we've killed an they just keep reforming. And lol @ idea some have expressed for redeploying to Iran. So we can't take out some loosely aligned cave dwellers with virtually no ability to strike out beyond their area, yet we can go into Iran who can close the strait of Hormuz. And who our well armed surrogate saddam couldn't take out after a prolonged war where a million iranians died. Correct. As Saddam found, there is no match for the Iranian Basij. Armed with nothing more than the Koran and the blessing of the prophet, they will overrun our trenches, which we will certainly dig for some reason, and bludgeon us to death with their holy book. Instead of rolling tanks right into Tehran after crushing all resistance at the Iranian border, as Saddam did, we will stop for several weeks and prepare to dig our way to the Iranian capital because our military has learned nothing since 1914. Great comparison, Joe.
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