Dylan pwns Donovan

[Pete]

[ieatcrayonz]

I don't get it.

[Pete]

http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/B000KJU1HI

 

Filmmakers were embedded with Bob Dylan on his 1965 tour of England in the classic documentary Don't Look Back. To understand the context, Dylan was just transitioning to superstar. Donovan was 19 and the big thing in the UK at the time. Throughout the film Dylan hears and reads nonstop about this up and coming singer Donovan. And when they finally meet- Donovan was clearly in awe of Dylan, who had little regard for Donovan

Edited August 10, 2012 by Pete

[Wooderson]

http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/B000KJU1HI

 

Filmmakers were embedded with Bob Dylan on his 1965 tour of England in the classic documentary Don't Look Back. To understand the context, Dylan was just transitioning to superstar. Donovan was 19 and the big thing in the UK at the time. Throughout the film Dylan hears and reads nonstop about this up and coming singer Donovan. And when they finally meet- Donovan was clearly in awe of Dylan, who had little regard for Donovan

 

Awesome documentary. Caught it a few years back on Palladia. Very interesting.

[Nanker]

Robert Allen Zimmerman didn't write "Blowing in the Wind."

[Pete]

Awesome documentary. Caught it a few years back on Palladia. Very interesting.

Truly. And to expound on the scene and context- this is the first meeting of the two. Donovan was a Dylan rip off folk singer at the time propped up by the British media. Dylan can be construed mocking Donovan when he says "that's a good song". Milliseconds after Donovan is done performing, Dylan rips the guitar out of Donovan's hands, and is eager to show him up. As Dylan performs enthusiastically, you can see Donovan wincing, and his tightly closed body language points demonstrates his humiliation. And Dylan takes sheer delight in so.

 

This highly charged scene occurs after Dylan earlier in the evening blows a gasket and nearly comes to blows with one of Donovan's crew (who broke a beer bottle in the street). "Who will pick up the broken glass" Dylan screams. "I will help you" Donovan eagerly answers. You can see the resignation in Donovan, and gigantic ego of Dylan. Fascinating

Edited August 12, 2012 by Pete

[Kelly the Dog]

Dylan wrote "Blowin' in the Wind" not "Blowing in the Wind."

 

The idea that he didnt write the song was a hoax.

[Rob's House]

Dylan's a great song writer but a mediocre singer and a pretty contemptible human being. As far as modesty and humility goes, he makes TO look like Barry Sanders. I heard a similar story about him sending for Jerry Jeff Walker. Walker comes in the room, Dylan plays Mr. Bojangles, and then summarily dismisses Walker. The guy seems like a real dick.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Dylan's a great song writer but a mediocre singer and a pretty contemptible human being. As far as modesty and humility goes, he makes TO look like Barry Sanders. I heard a similar story about him sending for Jerry Jeff Walker. Walker comes in the room, Dylan plays Mr. Bojangles, and then summarily dismisses Walker. The guy seems like a real dick.

 

It's the rare person who can remain humble in the face of adoration. Not to excuse that type of behavior, but it exists pretty commonly among fame.

[Rob's House]

It's the rare person who can remain humble in the face of adoration. Not to excuse that type of behavior, but it exists pretty commonly among fame.

Yeah, that's true. I don't mind the self-congratulatory types like TO. It's the ones like Floyd Mayweather that have to rub it in someone's face that irk me.

[Buftex]

Dylan's a great song writer but a mediocre singer and a pretty contemptible human being. As far as modesty and humility goes, he makes TO look like Barry Sanders. I heard a similar story about him sending for Jerry Jeff Walker. Walker comes in the room, Dylan plays Mr. Bojangles, and then summarily dismisses Walker. The guy seems like a real dick.

 

Apparently, both Donovan and JJ Walker got over it...I know Donavan and Dylan worked together later on...and I personally saw Jerry Jeff get up on stage with Dylan, about 20 years ago... when "Don't Look Back" was made, Dylan was, basically, a kid, being dubbed the "spokesman for a generation" long before that kind of "journalism" had existed.. pop musicians were accustomed to being treated, by the press, as silly "kid stuff".

 

Dylan was really the first to be taken seriously as a poet, and literary genius...much to his amusement and bewilderment...so, as a defense mechanism, he just kind of played it up... if you ever get a chance to read his autobiography, which came out about 5 years ago, or so, it is really the first time you get to hear Dylan in his own voice, rather than some persona that was created for him...turns out he is just your average, working class dude...loves baseball (Twins!). He describes those times as being full of pressure...he couldn't go anywhere, say or write anything that wasn't over analyzed....so he just kind of played with the press knobs who followed him...I think he was pretty hilarious all in all. "Talking to me is just the same as talking to you...."

 

Dylan kind of was the first to go through a lot of this stuff...the Beatles were much more intelligent than the "music press" (Tiger Beat, 16 magazine!) realized, so, on the creative end, they really didn't have tremendous pressure to live up to something...they could do what they wanted, and people would follow....Dylan started out writing stuff that was years beyond what anyone else was doing in pop music at that time...Chuck Berry was clever, and smart, but Dylan was writing beyond the surface... two of the greatest lyricists (along with Lennon/McCarthey & Hank Sr) of the last century.

 

"Contemptible human being" seem like pretty harsh words... other than this perceived dissing of Jerry Jeff and Donavan, I am not sure where you could draw that conclusion...guy is pretty quiet, rarely does interviews, and honestly, I cannot think of a single reason (maybe I am forgetting something...more than possible) reason to regard him as contemptible. Is it just the Jerry Jeff thing? I think even Jerry Jeff can admit that he was a fine songwriter at one time...but not in the class of Dylan. "Mr Bonjangles" is a great song, but some of JJs's best stuff was wriiten by others, like Guy Clark.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Buftex

[Best Player Available]

Dylan's a great song writer but a mediocre singer and a pretty contemptible human being. As far as modesty and humility goes, he makes TO look like Barry Sanders. I heard a similar story about him sending for Jerry Jeff Walker. Walker comes in the room, Dylan plays Mr. Bojangles, and then summarily dismisses Walker. The guy seems like a real dick.

 

I am aware of people who have had quite a different experience with him both on and off a stage. Sounds like what you heard is called rumor. Just sayin.

[Pete]

I have a musician friend who's favorite artist without a doubt was Dylan. Well he was working lights for a Dylan show down south and was so excited that he could get to meet Dylan. So my friend saw Dylan and gushed "Bob you are such an influence, and your music has meant so much to me" Bob said "kid, go get me a coke" My friend !@#$ing hates Dylan now

[Rico]

I have a musician friend who's favorite artist without a doubt was Dylan. Well he was working lights for a Dylan show down south and was so excited that he could get to meet Dylan. So my friend saw Dylan and gushed "Bob you are such an influence, and your music has meant so much to me" Bob said "kid, go get me a coke" My friend !@#$ing hates Dylan now

Awesome! That attitude is what makes him the greatest, your friend should be honored.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I have a musician friend who's favorite artist without a doubt was Dylan. Well he was working lights for a Dylan show down south and was so excited that he could get to meet Dylan. So my friend saw Dylan and gushed "Bob you are such an influence, and your music has meant so much to me" Bob said "kid, go get me a coke" My friend !@#$ing hates Dylan now

 

When Dylan is on the job (hell, when he's just hanging out) he probably gets that 5 times per day at a minimum. There's only so much "Oh, it's so great to hear from my fans!" that a person can muster before getting annoyed. That said, a simple "Thanks, kid. How about a Coke?" wouldn't have been difficult.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I have a musician friend who's favorite artist without a doubt was Dylan. Well he was working lights for a Dylan show down south and was so excited that he could get to meet Dylan. So my friend saw Dylan and gushed "Bob you are such an influence, and your music has meant so much to me" Bob said "kid, go get me a coke" My friend !@#$ing hates Dylan now

 

Did he bring him back an Orange Crush?

[Rico]

Dylan's a great song writer but a mediocre singer and a pretty contemptible human being. As far as modesty and humility goes, he makes TO look like Barry Sanders. I heard a similar story about him sending for Jerry Jeff Walker. Walker comes in the room, Dylan plays Mr. Bojangles, and then summarily dismisses Walker. The guy seems like a real dick.

Couldn't disagree more, at his peak he was one of the greatest singers of all time, very innovative & just spectacular phrasing.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Couldn't disagree more, at his peak he was one of the greatest singers of all time, very innovative & just spectacular phrasing.

 

I agree with you too. Some people gotta push this whole music has to be "pure" sounding BS. It is like the Salon (traditionalists) slacking the impressionists (non-conformists). IMO, it goes deeper with Dylan. Probably because of his cultural viewpoints... Which ironically are probably very traditionalist based.

[Rob's House]

Apparently, both Donovan and JJ Walker got over it...I know Donavan and Dylan worked together later on...and I personally saw Jerry Jeff get up on stage with Dylan, about 20 years ago... when "Don't Look Back" was made, Dylan was, basically, a kid, being dubbed the "spokesman for a generation" long before that kind of "journalism" had existed.. pop musicians were accustomed to being treated, by the press, as silly "kid stuff".

 

Dylan was really the first to be taken seriously as a poet, and literary genius...much to his amusement and bewilderment...so, as a defense mechanism, he just kind of played it up... if you ever get a chance to read his autobiography, which came out about 5 years ago, or so, it is really the first time you get to hear Dylan in his own voice, rather than some persona that was created for him...turns out he is just your average, working class dude...loves baseball (Twins!). He describes those times as being full of pressure...he couldn't go anywhere, say or write anything that wasn't over analyzed....so he just kind of played with the press knobs who followed him...I think he was pretty hilarious all in all. "Talking to me is just the same as talking to you...."

 

Dylan kind of was the first to go through a lot of this stuff...the Beatles were much more intelligent than the "music press" (Tiger Beat, 16 magazine!) realized, so, on the creative end, they really didn't have tremendous pressure to live up to something...they could do what they wanted, and people would follow....Dylan started out writing stuff that was years beyond what anyone else was doing in pop music at that time...Chuck Berry was clever, and smart, but Dylan was writing beyond the surface... two of the greatest lyricists (along with Lennon/McCarthey & Hank Sr) of the last century.

 

"Contemptible human being" seem like pretty harsh words... other than this perceived dissing of Jerry Jeff and Donavan, I am not sure where you could draw that conclusion...guy is pretty quiet, rarely does interviews, and honestly, I cannot think of a single reason (maybe I am forgetting something...more than possible) reason to regard him as contemptible. Is it just the Jerry Jeff thing? I think even Jerry Jeff can admit that he was a fine songwriter at one time...but not in the class of Dylan. "Mr Bonjangles" is a great song, but some of JJs's best stuff was wriiten by others, like Guy Clark.

You may be right. If I have time I'll check it out. Most of what I'm going on is what I've heard, both the stories here and some other comments attributed to him. One I remember was him ranting about not being the voice of the generation, but given the background you describe it makes a lot more sense now. I've always respected him as one of the greatest musicians of all time.

 

Couldn't disagree more, at his peak he was one of the greatest singers of all time, very innovative & just spectacular phrasing.

No question about his song-writing ability. He just doesn't have that great a voice. Most of his great songs were done better by those covering them IMO. To his credit he's got a few that he belted out that I'll turn up the radio for.

[Rico]

Apparently, both Donovan and JJ Walker got over it...I know Donavan and Dylan worked together later on...and I personally saw Jerry Jeff get up on stage with Dylan, about 20 years ago... when "Don't Look Back" was made, Dylan was, basically, a kid, being dubbed the "spokesman for a generation" long before that kind of "journalism" had existed.. pop musicians were accustomed to being treated, by the press, as silly "kid stuff".

 

Dylan was really the first to be taken seriously as a poet, and literary genius...much to his amusement and bewilderment...so, as a defense mechanism, he just kind of played it up... if you ever get a chance to read his autobiography, which came out about 5 years ago, or so, it is really the first time you get to hear Dylan in his own voice, rather than some persona that was created for him...turns out he is just your average, working class dude...loves baseball (Twins!). He describes those times as being full of pressure...he couldn't go anywhere, say or write anything that wasn't over analyzed....so he just kind of played with the press knobs who followed him...I think he was pretty hilarious all in all. "Talking to me is just the same as talking to you...."

 

Dylan kind of was the first to go through a lot of this stuff...the Beatles were much more intelligent than the "music press" (Tiger Beat, 16 magazine!) realized, so, on the creative end, they really didn't have tremendous pressure to live up to something...they could do what they wanted, and people would follow....Dylan started out writing stuff that was years beyond what anyone else was doing in pop music at that time...Chuck Berry was clever, and smart, but Dylan was writing beyond the surface... two of the greatest lyricists (along with Lennon/McCarthey & Hank Sr) of the last century.

 

"Contemptible human being" seem like pretty harsh words... other than this perceived dissing of Jerry Jeff and Donavan, I am not sure where you could draw that conclusion...guy is pretty quiet, rarely does interviews, and honestly, I cannot think of a single reason (maybe I am forgetting something...more than possible) reason to regard him as contemptible. Is it just the Jerry Jeff thing? I think even Jerry Jeff can admit that he was a fine songwriter at one time...but not in the class of Dylan. "Mr Bonjangles" is a great song, but some of JJs's best stuff was wriiten by others, like Guy Clark.

Well he covered Bojangles on the infamous "Dylan" outtake album, so he must've liked it somewhat... good version if you ask me.

 

Again, I think that attitude adds a lot to the greatness. Stones used to have it as well (rock royalty... before Keith lost his glare & started smiling all the time), but they lost it when they went Vegas. One thing is for sure, you would never see Dylan doing any meet-and-greet with fans before the show like the Stones have done.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Rico