Why should we re-elect Obama

[fjl2nd]

1) He saved GM

2) He prevented the US from having another great depression

3) He inspires me

4) He can sing

5) He carries a big stick

 

/DIN, Conner, Fjind, TheNewBills

 

Wooo! I get a shout out!

 

I guess I will attempt a serious response before being called stupid, clueless, and whatever other insults you guys prefer.

 

In order to make a choice for President, a comparison between both candidates must be done. Although I disagree with Obama on various issues like some tax policy, foreign policy, and lack of leadership, I believe he has done enough to get my vote...again. I do not believe Mitt Romney has the right plan for the future either. Here are some my main points.

 

1. Obamacare. I like most of it. I am in favor of a complete single payer but I knew that was never happening. It does some good things and we will all get used to it. Repealing it is the worst possible thing at this point. It actually wouldn't even be possible until at least 2014 anyways when most of it is implemented by then. Politicians talking about repealing Obamacare is just politics and a waste of time. Republicans talk about what they want to replace it. They speak of provisions that are already in the bill! Why not work to add some things to it?

 

2. Economic Policy. I don't agree fully with either candidate. However, I think Romney's plan is much more harmful to the economy. Slashing taxes even more is outrageous. Why do we need rates to drop to 28%? Revenues will fall dramatically with his plan. We do no need that all at this time. Cutting too much spending too quickly could also hurt the economy quite a bit. I actually trust Romney more than most other Republicans on this front though and hope that he will rethink some of his proposals. With Obama, I think some of his budget proposals when it comes to taxes is also all wrong. The capital gains tax is going to be brutal in 2013. I am fine with going up to around 20% when the economy is stronger, but not this year or the next. Income inequality is a HUGE problem and this does address it a little, but not now. I am fine with the estate tax proposal for the most part.

 

3. Foreign policy is a push because I am pretty much in the Ron Paul camp when it comes down to it. No Presidential candidate is close to that.

 

4. Social Issues. I know most you probably think it's dumb to vote on certain social issues. But, they do matter. I would never vote based on them alone, but they go into the complete package. Things like defunding Planned Parenthood, very strong talk against immigrants, refusing to take a stances on the Fair Pay act, etc. I usually always agree with the Democrat in these areas so this isn't a huge deal.

 

5. Romney VP pick. Now that Paul Ryan has been selected, that is the nail in the coffin for me. (I'm still wondering if it was great pick by Romney politically, or one that destroy his chances)

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

Hope and change!

 

Needs a chance to visit all 57 states !

 

Yes we can !

 

D is for drive, R is for reverse

 

It was his predecessors fault

 

And needs to get me more o that obammma monies

 

 

[Oxrock]

Wooo! I get a shout out!

 

I guess I will attempt a serious response before being called stupid, clueless, and whatever other insults you guys prefer.

 

In order to make a choice for President, a comparison between both candidates must be done. Although I disagree with Obama on various issues like some tax policy, foreign policy, and lack of leadership, I believe he has done enough to get my vote...again. I do not believe Mitt Romney has the right plan for the future either. Here are some my main points.

 

1. Obamacare. I like most of it. I am in favor of a complete single payer but I knew that was never happening. It does some good things and we will all get used to it. Repealing it is the worst possible thing at this point. It actually wouldn't even be possible until at least 2014 anyways when most of it is implemented by then. Politicians talking about repealing Obamacare is just politics and a waste of time. Republicans talk about what they want to replace it. They speak of provisions that are already in the bill! Why not work to add some things to it?

Of course you are. move to Canada. Done.

 

Car insurance and car warranty models are already there to model health insurance after (and homeowners too, but I digress).

 

Open the competition accross state lines.

 

2. Economic Policy. I don't agree fully with either candidate. However, I think Romney's plan is much more harmful to the economy. Slashing taxes even more is outrageous. Why do we need rates to drop to 28%? Revenues will fall dramatically with his plan. We do no need that all at this time. Cutting too much spending too quickly could also hurt the economy quite a bit. I actually trust Romney more than most other Republicans on this front though and hope that he will rethink some of his proposals. With Obama, I think some of his budget proposals when it comes to taxes is also all wrong. The capital gains tax is going to be brutal in 2013. I am fine with going up to around 20% when the economy is stronger, but not this year or the next. Income inequality is a HUGE problem and this does address it a little, but not now. I am fine with the estate tax proposal for the most part.

You don't do well at reading comprehension, do you? Cutting taxes increases tax revenue every time it's tried. Ryan's plan ( unlike Booooooosh) cuts taxes, eliminates "loopholes", simplifies the reporting process, and cuts the rate of increase(NOTE: Doesn't cut dhit, just slows the rate of growth. If you say his plan cuts, guts, eliminates anything, YOU ARE LIER. You lie.).

 

3. Foreign policy is a push because I am pretty much in the Ron Paul camp when it comes down to it. No Presidential candidate is close to that.

Yes. Sort of, but wrong. You will see more in the coming days.

 

4. Social Issues. I know most you probably think it's dumb to vote on certain social issues. But, they do matter. I would never vote based on them alone, but they go into the complete package. Things like defunding Planned Parenthood, very strong talk against immigrants, refusing to take a stances on the Fair Pay act, etc. I usually always agree with the Democrat in these areas so this isn't a huge deal.

Planned parenthood is a private endeavor that should not be funded by my tax dollars. What pisses me off is when you leftist leave off the descriptor in front of "immigrant"! Nobody on the right side of center talks "strong against immigrants". Illegals, yes. They broke the law. As far as taking stances on fair pay... Wtf are you talking about? Lilly Ledbetter? Christ what a waste of time. Brining that up just tells me all I need to know about how married you are to the false narratives of the leftist mindset.

 

5. Romney VP pick. Now that Paul Ryan has been selected, that is the nail in the coffin for me. (I'm still wondering if it was great pick by Romney politically, or one that destroy his chances)

You have yet to articulate why "that is the nail in the coffin"?

Edited August 12, 2012 by Oxrock

[OCinBuffalo]

Because Romney is really a vampire....and Obama really is just another in a long line of vampire hunters....going back to Abe Lincoln?

 

Because...only that, only that, would excuse his terrible performance and unhinged neeed to see his ideology, rather than what is practical for right now, deployed no matter the cost to the country.

[fjl2nd]

Once again I'm drunk at 6am. I'll respond to oxrock when I wake up. Lol. His thoughts on revenues raising because of tax cuts is !@#$ing hilarious though. It's not the tax cuts that raise revenues. They always decrease when enacted even with these last round of Bush tax cuts. I'll get into it more later...

[Nanker]

Once again I'm drunk at 6am. I'll respond to oxrock when I wake up. Lol. His thoughts on revenues raising because of tax cuts is !@#$ing hilarious though. It's not the tax cuts that raise revenues. They always decrease when enacted even with these last round of Bush tax cuts. I'll get into it more later...

Just saving this for posterity. It's a candidate for the comedy hall of fame.

[drnykterstein]

Just saving this for posterity. It's a candidate for the comedy hall of fame.

 

And I'll save this post for posterity. It's a candidate for the all time "WTF" hall of fame.

 

Very rarely in history have tax cuts resulted in increased revenue. Every instance of this it's highly debatable that the tax cut was the primary cause of increased revenue. Yet you fact repellent republicans insist on pushing your lies as truth. Even yet, the issue is more complex than "lower taxes/higher". Who should we lower taxes on and who to raise taxes on? Obama seems purely interested in lowering taxes on the middle and lower class and raising taxes a few percentage points on the wealthy. That seems to be a prudent and wise move in the interest of benefiting the nation as a whole.

[Nanker]

And I'll save this post for posterity. It's a candidate for the all time "WTF" hall of fame.

 

Very rarely in history have tax cuts resulted in increased revenue. Every instance of this it's highly debatable that the tax cut was the primary cause of increased revenue. Yet you fact repellent republicans insist on pushing your lies as truth. Even yet, the issue is more complex than "lower taxes/higher". Who should we lower taxes on and who to raise taxes on? Obama seems purely interested in lowering taxes on the middle and lower class and raising taxes a few percentage points on the wealthy. That seems to be a prudent and wise move in the interest of benefiting the nation as a whole.

Thanks!

[WorldTraveller]

 

 

Wooo! I get a shout out!

 

I guess I will attempt a serious response before being called stupid, clueless, and whatever other insults you guys prefer.

 

In order to make a choice for President, a comparison between both candidates must be done. Although I disagree with Obama on various issues like some tax policy, foreign policy, and lack of leadership, I believe he has done enough to get my vote...again. I do not believe Mitt Romney has the right plan for the future either. Here are some my main points.

 

1. Obamacare. I like most of it. I am in favor of a complete single payer but I knew that was never happening. It does some good things and we will all get used to it. Repealing it is the worst possible thing at this point. It actually wouldn't even be possible until at least 2014 anyways when most of it is implemented by then. Politicians talking about repealing Obamacare is just politics and a waste of time. Republicans talk about what they want to replace it. They speak of provisions that are already in the bill! Why not work to add some things to it?

 

2. Economic Policy. I don't agree fully with either candidate. However, I think Romney's plan is much more harmful to the economy. Slashing taxes even more is outrageous. Why do we need rates to drop to 28%? Revenues will fall dramatically with his plan. We do no need that all at this time. Cutting too much spending too quickly could also hurt the economy quite a bit. I actually trust Romney more than most other Republicans on this front though and hope that he will rethink some of his proposals. With Obama, I think some of his budget proposals when it comes to taxes is also all wrong. The capital gains tax is going to be brutal in 2013. I am fine with going up to around 20% when the economy is stronger, but not this year or the next. Income inequality is a HUGE problem and this does address it a little, but not now. I am fine with the estate tax proposal for the most part.

 

3. Foreign policy is a push because I am pretty much in the Ron Paul camp when it comes down to it. No Presidential candidate is close to that.

 

4. Social Issues. I know most you probably think it's dumb to vote on certain social issues. But, they do matter. I would never vote based on them alone, but they go into the complete package. Things like defunding Planned Parenthood, very strong talk against immigrants, refusing to take a stances on the Fair Pay act, etc. I usually always agree with the Democrat in these areas so this isn't a huge deal.

 

5. Romney VP pick. Now that Paul Ryan has been selected, that is the nail in the coffin for me. (I'm still wondering if it was great pick by Romney politically, or one that destroy his chances)

 

"nail in the coffin". Dude you already had that thing bolted down the day you knew Romney was the nominee. Let's not pretend that wasn't the case

Edited August 12, 2012 by WorldTraveller

[Oxrock]

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200

Federal tax receipts by year ^^^^^

The following quotes are published in the book, “The Interesting History of Income Tax,” by William J. Federer"

“It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now … Cutting taxes now is not to incur a budget deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding economy which can bring a budget surplus.”

– John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, president’s news conference

 

 

 

“Lower rates of taxation will stimulate economic activity and so raise the levels of personal and corporate income as to yield within a few years an increased – not a reduced – flow of revenues to the federal government.”

– John F. Kennedy, Jan. 17, 1963, annual budget message to the Congress, fiscal year 1964

“In today’s economy, fiscal prudence and responsibility call for tax reduction even if it temporarily enlarges the federal deficit – why reducing taxes is the best way open to us to increase revenues.”

– John F. Kennedy, Jan. 21, 1963, annual message to the Congress: “The Economic Report Of The President”

 

 

 

“It is no contradiction – the most important single thing we can do to stimulate investment in today’s economy is to raise consumption by major reduction of individual income tax rates.”

– John F. Kennedy, Jan. 21, 1963, annual message to the Congress: “The Economic Report Of The President”

 

 

 

“Our tax system still siphons out of the private economy too large a share of personal and business purchasing power and reduces the incentive for risk, investment and effort – thereby aborting our recoveries and stifling our national growth rate.”

– John F. Kennedy, Jan. 24, 1963, message to Congress on tax reduction and reform, House Doc. 43, 88th Congress, 1st Session.

 

 

 

“A tax cut means higher family income and higher business profits and a balanced federal budget. Every taxpayer and his family will have more money left over after taxes for a new car, a new home, new conveniences, education and investment. Every businessman can keep a higher percentage of his profits in his cash register or put it to work expanding or improving his business, and as the national income grows, the federal government will ultimately end up with more revenues.”

– John F. Kennedy, Sept. 18, 1963, radio and television address to the nation on tax-reduction bill

 

 

 

“I have asked the secretary of the treasury to report by April 1 on whether present tax laws may be stimulating in undue amounts the flow of American capital to the industrial countries abroad through special preferential treatment.”

– John F. Kennedy, Feb. 6, 1961, message to Congress on gold and the balalnce of payments deficit

 

 

 

“In those countries where income taxes are lower than in the United States, the ability to defer the payment of U.S. tax by retaining income in the subsidiary companies provides a tax advantage for companies operating through overseas subsidiaries that is not available to companies operating solely in the United States. Many American investors properly made use of this deferral in the conduct of their foreign investment.”

– John F. Kennedy, April 20, 1961, message to Congress on taxation

 

 

 

“Our present tax system … exerts too heavy a drag on growth … It reduces the financial incentives for personal effort, investment, and risk-taking … The present tax load … distorts economic judgments and channels an undue amount of energy into efforts to avoid tax liabilities.”

– John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, press conference

 

 

 

“The present tax codes … inhibit the mobility and formation of capital, add complexities and inequities which undermine the morale of the taxpayer, and make tax avoidance rather than market factors a prime consideration in too many economic decisions.”

– John F. Kennedy, Jan. 23, 1963, special message to Congress on tax reduction and reform

 

 

 

“In short, it is a paradoxical truth that … the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now. The experience of a number of European countries and Japan have borne this out. This country’s own experience with tax reduction in 1954 has borne this out. And the reason is that only full employment can balance the budget, and tax reduction can pave the way to that employment. The purpose of cutting taxes now is not to incur a budget deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding economy which can bring a budget surplus.”

– John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, news conference

Look at the chart. Tax cut signed in 1964, receipts went up 1965.

Reagan 1981 and 1986 signed tax cuts. Receipts go up.

Bush 2003. Receipts go up.

The problem is SPENDING. Spending never goes down and the Ryan plan doesn't even "cut" spending. It reduces the rate of increase. The Obamacare actually cuts medicare. Ryan plan continues to increase spending on Medicare. Allows for a current (and those age 55 at the time of enactment) recipients to continue untouched while offering choices to us younger folk to either enter into Medicare or go with a new voucher system. So, it's a bald faced lie to claim "guts medicare". The only gutting of medicare occurred with the ObamaTax.

[B-Man]

 

Obama's Campaign One Of The Dirtiest In Modern Times

 

By BERNARD GOLDBERG

 

f you've been paying attention to Barack Obama's campaign for re-election you may have noticed a recurring theme. While he hits the campaign trail, flashing his million-dollar smile and waving to the adoring crowds, his political hit men are engaged in one of the dirtiest campaigns in recent American history — a campaign where decency is no virtue and moral atrocities are no vice. Not if they help Barack Obama win re-election.

 

First it was Harry Reid's indecent act on the floor of the U.S. Senate about Mitt Romney not paying taxes in 10 years — an allegation made without so much as a scintilla of evidence to back it up.

It's one thing if a drunk in a bar makes some crazy, unsubstantiated accusation. But this was the leader of the U.S. Senate telling the American people "The word's out he (Mitt Romney) hasn't paid any taxes in 10 years. Let him prove he has paid taxes. Because he hasn't."

When asked how he knows this, Reid said he got the tip from a confidential source who had worked at Bain Capital. When asked who it was, Reid wouldn't say. And if a reporter asked Reid, how a confidential source — assuming one even existed — could possibly know anything about Mitt Romney's personal income-tax returns, I missed it.

 

{snip}

 

Except that no one believes that Harry Reid was freelancing, that he woke up one day and said I think I'll go on the floor of the Senate and say that Romney hasn't paid taxes in 10 years. "The word's out" that the president's re-election team was pulling the strings of their willing puppet.

 

At the time I thought this was as low as it would get during this campaign. But then came The Ad, produced and paid for by Priorities USA, a super-Pac supporting Barack Obama — and run by a former spokesman for the president.

The ad — casually and incredibly — linked Mitt Romney to the death of a woman who had cancer.

 

{snip}

 

It is the dirtiest political commercial I have seen in a very long time. But again the president remained silent.

And again, his silence makes him complicit in this moral outrage.

 

It's important to remember that Barack Obama rode into Washington four years ago on a magic carpet made up of hopes and dreams and promises to make the national conversation less partisan and more civil.

 

It's tempting to believe that Mr. Obama has thrown his principles out the window in order to win. But it's becoming more and more clear that he never had the principles he sold us on. It's becoming more and more clear that Barack Obama is just one more crummy Chicago politician who will do whatever he has to in order to win. Somebody needs to tell the president that the White House isn't City Hall.

 

Mr. Obama's tactics, of course, may work. But if he wins re-election, he will be the president of a nation more divided than when he walked into the Oval Office four years ago. With his class warfare strategy, he has managed to turn Americans against each other. With his ally's dirty campaign ad, he has managed to make us more cynical than we were before he promised to make things better.

If he wins, Barack Obama and the American people will have paid a high price for victory. It's a price he's obviously willing to pay.

 

• Goldberg is a former reporter for CBS News and author of five books on the media. His website is http://www.bernardgoldberg.com.

 

http://news.investors.com/article/621917/201208101913/obama-engaged-in-one-of-dirtiest-campaigns-ever.htm?p=full

[drnykterstein]

 

Look at the chart. Tax cut signed in 1964, receipts went up 1965.

Reagan 1981 and 1986 signed tax cuts. Receipts go up.

Bush 2003. Receipts go up.

The problem is SPENDING. Spending never goes down and the Ryan plan doesn't even "cut" spending. It reduces the rate of increase. The Obamacare actually cuts medicare. Ryan plan continues to increase spending on Medicare. Allows for a current (and those age 55 at the time of enactment) recipients to continue untouched while offering choices to us younger folk to either enter into Medicare or go with a new voucher system. So, it's a bald faced lie to claim "guts medicare". The only gutting of medicare occurred with the ObamaTax.

 

Thanks for the blunt reminder of why I hate this forum so much. This crap laced post is intellectually dishonest and so completely lacking logic and fact that I don't even know where to start.

 

And I could waste an hour deconstructing it. But we all know that informed content goes nowhere fast around here. Any intelligent post is met with snark and mockery and get's lucky to be interpreted even mildly as it was intended.

 

I'll take my hour and do something more productive .. like watching tv or something.

Edited August 12, 2012 by conner

[Rob's House]

Thanks for the blunt reminder of why I hate this forum so much. This crap laced post is intellectually dishonest and so completely lacking logic and fact that I don't even know where to start.

 

And I could waste an hour deconstructing it. But we all know that informed content goes nowhere fast around here. Any intelligent post is met with snark and mockery and get's lucky to be interpreted even mildly as it was intended.

 

I'll take my hour and do something more productive .. like watching tv or something.

His post was just a series of JFK quotes.

 

After several days on the wall it's interesting how few Obama supporters have chimed in. We have one primarily conservative poster who is a one issue voter, One who says it doesn't much matter either way, one who says Obama will do ??? for the economy, and Conner who thinks Obama already fixed the economy.

 

So let's look at the results: The Obama supporters can offer no substantial criticism of Romney and no substantial explanation for how Obama will alleviate our economic problems. I guess it really comes down to the letter next to the name.

 

Broken record here Rob, for me Healthcare....

 

after reform of some sort if safe and in place, we can begin to aggresively look at Welfare, SS, Medicare, War Department, Tax Code, and dismantling things that just don't work.

 

BTW, how is the back?

You're one of the few people who support Obama whose opinion I can respect because, although I don't believe his re-election will advance your interests the way you think they will, your answer is rooted in an actual policy reason. When Clinton ran against Dole I was dating a girl who was less than an intellectual heavy-weight, but despite her intellectual short-comings she was the only person who gave me a legitimate reason as to why she supported Clinton. Her mom was on public assistance and she didn't want that to end. Now, regardless of the fact that a Dole Presidency would hardly have taken food off her mom's table I respected her opinion because it was rooted in an actual policy reason as opposed to the mind-numbingly stupid response "Dole is old" that virtually everyone else was spouting.

 

And my neck's doing better. Whenever it starts to bother me I hit the weights and that usually takes care of it.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Rob's House

[B-Man]

Thanks for the blunt reminder of why I hate this forum so much. This crap laced post is intellectually dishonest and so completely lacking logic and fact that I don't even know where to start.

 

And I could waste an hour deconstructing it.

 

No.

 

You could not.

 

and everyone knows it.

 

Government income has demonstrably gone up, when personal income tax rates are lowered, unfortunately politicians cannot even lower the rate of government spending increases.

 

We need politicians with courage, the majority of Americans are yearning for it.

 

.

[Nanker]

His post was just a series of JFK quotes.

 

After several days on the wall it's interesting how few Obama supporters have chimed in. We have one primarily conservative poster who is a one issue voter, One who says it doesn't much matter either way, one who says Obama will do ??? for the economy, and Conner who thinks Obama already fixed the economy.

 

So let's look at the results: The Obama supporters can offer no substantial criticism of Romney and no substantial explanation for how Obama will alleviate our economic problems. I guess it really comes down to the letter next to the name.

Doesn't matter. It doesn't fit his narrative. Disabuse yourself of the notion that putting more people to work will create more tax revenues. That just isn't so. Dropping the unemployment rate to 3% would have no effect on the economy whatsoever.

Why waste your time here Rob, when places like this are so much more informative and true.

[Rob's House]

No.

 

You could not.

 

and everyone knows it.

 

Government income has demonstrably gone up, when personal income tax rates are lowered, unfortunately politicians cannot even lower the rate of government spending increases.

 

We need politicians with courage, the majority of Americans are yearning for it.

 

.

I agree with you in principle but I fear conservatives lose ground by overstating this. Tax cuts can lead to higher revenues but that depends on how high the tax rate was to begin with and what it is reduced to. I think everyone should read up on the Laffer curve and Hauser's law (different theories, but they're not necessarily mutually exclusive) to get a better understanding of the relationship between tax rates and revenues.

[meazza]

Thanks for the blunt reminder of why I hate this forum so much. This crap laced post is intellectually dishonest and so completely lacking logic and fact that I don't even know where to start.

 

And I could waste an hour deconstructing it. But we all know that informed content goes nowhere fast around here. Any intelligent post is met with snark and mockery and get's lucky to be interpreted even mildly as it was intended.

 

I'll take my hour and do something more productive .. like watching tv or something.

 

Yes because you certainly have a history of that

[Oxrock]

 

 

Thanks for the blunt reminder of why I hate this forum so much. This crap laced post is intellectually dishonest and so completely lacking logic and fact that I don't even know where to start.

 

And I could waste an hour deconstructing it. But we all know that informed content goes nowhere fast around here. Any intelligent post is met with snark and mockery and get's lucky to be interpreted even mildly as it was intended.

 

I'll take my hour and do something more productive .. like watching tv or something.

You can't. It's right there in black and white. You can only offer opinion pieces that attempt to put forth other reasons for ax receipts to hv gone up.

 

But go ahead. Run.

 

 

 

His post was just a series of JFK quotes.

 

.

No, I posted a link to Federal Tax Receipts By Year at the top.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200

 

[Rob's House]

No, I posted a link to Federal Tax Receipts By Year at the top.

http://www.taxpolicy...t.cfm?Docid=200

Oh yeah, missed that. My point still holds, I'm not sure how posting a link to tax returns and JFK quotes amounts to intellectual dishonesty. But then i never got how a man was responsible for the actions of his successors so I guess there's a lot I don't get.

[DC Tom]

Thanks for the blunt reminder of why I hate this forum so much. This crap laced post is intellectually dishonest and so completely lacking logic and fact that I don't even know where to start.

 

And I could waste an hour deconstructing it. But we all know that informed content goes nowhere fast around here. Any intelligent post is met with snark and mockery and get's lucky to be interpreted even mildly as it was intended.

 

I'll take my hour and do something more productive .. like watching tv or something.

 

You've posted the most crap-laden dishonest posts of anyone in the history of this board (save Holcomb's Arm). You're not deconstructing anything soon.