Concerns rasied about Buffalo's receiving corps

[Doc]

I am glad you wrote this. I forgot who I made the bet with.

If i lose i will pay even though my 39 children will have to live off govrrnment cheese.

The sins of the father...

I hope that i lose and Merriman is once again great, but i doubt it will happen.

He doesn't have to be great (although early indications are that he just might be); just play in more than 4 games. And since he'll be a situational player to start the season...

[thewildrabbit]

WR is a huge concern on this team IMO, considering Gailey wants Fitz to throw 500-600 times this season, and call shotgun 4-5 WR one back spread sets all game long.

 

Finding a top second and third WR should be a huge goal. Johnson was ranked #19 last year, the next best was Nelson at #61. The next best receiver was Fred Jackson at #106, followed by Scott Chandler at 120, then Spiller at #159. Finally Naaman Roosevelt at #167 makes the 3 best WR on the team last year. FJ only played in 10 games, so what does that tell you about the Bills WR corps?

 

 

Don't think this is significant? Lets look at the Patriots, Wes Welker #2, Rob Gronkowski #6, Aaron Hernandez #31, Dion Branch #57. So when the Patriots throw 612 times a season they have 4 receivers in the top 60, 2 in the top ten. The NYG also have 2 in the top 15, Victor Cruz #3, Hakeem Nicks #12

[Hapless Bills Fan]

WR is a huge concern on this team IMO, considering Gailey wants Fitz to throw 500-600 times this season, and call shotgun 4-5 WR one back spread sets all game long.

 

Finding a top second and third WR should be a huge goal. Johnson was ranked #19 last year, the next best was Nelson at #61. The next best receiver was Fred Jackson at #106, followed by Scott Chandler at 120, then Spiller at #159. Finally Naaman Roosevelt at #167 makes the 3 best WR on the team last year. FJ only played in 10 games, so what does that tell you about the Bills WR corps?

 

 

Don't think this is significant? Lets look at the Patriots, Wes Welker #2, Rob Gronkowski #6, Aaron Hernandez #31, Dion Branch #57. So when the Patriots throw 612 times a season they have 4 receivers in the top 60, 2 in the top ten. The NYG also have 2 in the top 15, Victor Cruz #3, Hakeem Nicks #12

 

This is actually a very interesting point. A hallmark of the West Coast passing offense is that the short, timed passes enable success with a lower-quality receiving corps - and also spread the ball around.

But we aren't running a West Coast offense - just using some of the timing elements. (Neither are the Pats and Giants AFAIK)

 

So it is a puzzle to me that we haven't paid more mind to WR quality. Chan obviously feels that what we had was "good enough"

 

That said, I think your assessment, while accurate, looks a little more dire than it is. FJ and Spiller never saw the field together last year. If you add their contributions, they would be #46.

Jones only started 7 games due to injuries. If you project his contributions to a 16 game season, he would be #84.

So you have Stevie Johnson #19, FJ/CJ #46, Nelson, #61, Jones, #84. It isn't the Patriots, but it's a little less dire than you portray.

 

Also keep in mind that half of the Pats yardage comes as YAC for Welker Gronk and Hernandez. Stevie knows he can improve there since he played hurt all last season and so did Jones, for some of the games he played.

 

Now, if Nelson and Stevie go down, we're in Trig Bubble.

 

All in all, it does highlight why you and I seem aligned in expressing concern that evidence suggests perhaps Chan is not the master-mind at suiting his offense to his personnel that some have portrayed. He does seem determined to run a very pass-centric offense without the hosses to do it. This season will tell.

 

(PS one factor with the Giants 2 WR in the top 15 is I don't believe they run a spread set very much. I could be mistaken though as I don't watch 'em)

Edited August 6, 2012 by Hopeful

[Kemp]

The sins of the father...

 

He doesn't have to be great (although early indications are that he just might be); just play in more than 4 games. And since he'll be a situational player to start the season...

Worst case scenaro for me is if he plays and is virtually useless. Obviously. If you win, contact me through here and your check will go out.

 

This is actually a very interesting point. A hallmark of the West Coast passing offense is that the short, timed passes enable success with a lower-quality receiving corps - and also spread the ball around.

But we aren't running a West Coast offense - just using some of the timing elements. (Neither are the Pats and Giants AFAIK)

 

So it is a puzzle to me that we haven't paid more mind to WR quality. Chan obviously feels that what we had was "good enough"

 

That said, I think your assessment, while accurate, looks a little more dire than it is. FJ and Spiller never saw the field together last year. If you add their contributions, they would be #46.

Jones only started 7 games due to injuries. If you project his contributions to a 16 game season, he would be #84.

So you have Stevie Johnson #19, FJ/CJ #46, Nelson, #61, Jones, #84. It isn't the Patriots, but it's a little less dire than you portray.

 

Also keep in mind that half of the Pats yardage comes as YAC for Welker Gronk and Hernandez. Stevie knows he can improve there since he played hurt all last season and so did Jones, for some of the games he played.

 

Now, if Nelson and Stevie go down, we're in Trig Bubble.

 

All in all, it does highlight why you and I seem aligned in expressing concern that evidence suggests perhaps Chan is not the master-mind at suiting his offense to his personnel that some have portrayed. He does seem determined to run a very pass-centric offense without the hosses to do it. This season will tell.

 

(PS one factor with the Giants 2 WR in the top 15 is I don't believe they run a spread set very much. I could be mistaken though as I don't watch 'em)

Combiining stats of Jackson and Spiller makes little sense to me because they share a position and because projecting stats based on a partial stats is tough to back up again. Injuries have become so prevalent that they are to be expected more than feared.

[Doc]

Worst case scenaro for me is if he plays and is virtually useless. Obviously. If you win, contact me through here and your check will go out.

That would be the worst case scenario for everyone. Although I'd get $50 out of it.

[ddaryl]

I am not worried about our WR situation. I think it's a strength.

 

Johnson and Nelson are and will continue to be Solid. The fact is we are developing our own at WR, and Nelson Jones and Easley are all in their 3rd years and WR's usually break out in their 3rd years.

 

Jones is not injured and has looked solid in camp, Hagan is looking sharp, Graham has made some nice plays, and looking better then expected for a rookie in camp. Easley is looking good most of th eitme with some hiccups...

 

I disagree with the attitude that a FA can be better then what we already have.

 

 

ALSO We will be focusing on the running game more this year.

[thewildrabbit]

This is actually a very interesting point. A hallmark of the West Coast passing offense is that the short, timed passes enable success with a lower-quality receiving corps - and also spread the ball around.

But we aren't running a West Coast offense - just using some of the timing elements. (Neither are the Pats and Giants AFAIK)

 

So it is a puzzle to me that we haven't paid more mind to WR quality. Chan obviously feels that what we had was "good enough"

 

That said, I think your assessment, while accurate, looks a little more dire than it is. FJ and Spiller never saw the field together last year. If you add their contributions, they would be #46.

Jones only started 7 games due to injuries. If you project his contributions to a 16 game season, he would be #84.

So you have Stevie Johnson #19, FJ/CJ #46, Nelson, #61, Jones, #84. It isn't the Patriots, but it's a little less dire than you portray.

 

Also keep in mind that half of the Pats yardage comes as YAC for Welker Gronk and Hernandez. Stevie knows he can improve there since he played hurt all last season and so did Jones, for some of the games he played.

 

Now, if Nelson and Stevie go down, we're in Trig Bubble.

 

All in all, it does highlight why you and I seem aligned in expressing concern that evidence suggests perhaps Chan is not the master-mind at suiting his offense to his personnel that some have portrayed. He does seem determined to run a very pass-centric offense without the hosses to do it. This season will tell.

 

(PS one factor with the Giants 2 WR in the top 15 is I don't believe they run a spread set very much. I could be mistaken though as I don't watch 'em)

More importantly If Stevie Johnson goes down the Bills are screwed. #61 for a #2 WR stinks in my view.

 

My entire point was to show that there really is nobody after SJ worth a damn, even tho Gailey keeps calling all those 5 WR sets. Think about those 5 WR sets with SJ at #19, Nelson at #61 and Roosevelt at #167 is the 3rd WR, Derek Hagan at #171, Brad Smith at #177. Just to give some perspective to those numbers David Nelson had 61 reception for 658 yards. Brad Smith had 23 receptions for 240 yards.

 

The Bills were rumored to be interested in Vincent Jackson this past off season and for good reason as he was ranked #17 last year, and probably worth around the 10 mill to the 11.5 he got from TB in free agency.

 

Like I stated in other posts Gailey doesn't fool opposing defenses utilizing those 5 WR sets, they know who is getting the ball. The Bills desperately need another top 10-20 WR to take some heat off SJ. Kinda why I was posting about obtaining Mike Wallace should the Steelers want to trade him during preseason at some point. A #1 pick for 2013 plus 11.5 a year for THE premier deep speed WR ranked #11 last season is well worth it in my view, just not sure the Bills could afford him.

[DrDawkinstein]

WR is a huge concern on this team IMO, considering Gailey wants Fitz to throw 500-600 times this season, and call shotgun 4-5 WR one back spread sets all game long.

 

Finding a top second and third WR should be a huge goal. Johnson was ranked #19 last year, the next best was Nelson at #61. The next best receiver was Fred Jackson at #106, followed by Scott Chandler at 120, then Spiller at #159. Finally Naaman Roosevelt at #167 makes the 3 best WR on the team last year. FJ only played in 10 games, so what does that tell you about the Bills WR corps?

 

 

Don't think this is significant? Lets look at the Patriots, Wes Welker #2, Rob Gronkowski #6, Aaron Hernandez #31, Dion Branch #57. So when the Patriots throw 612 times a season they have 4 receivers in the top 60, 2 in the top ten. The NYG also have 2 in the top 15, Victor Cruz #3, Hakeem Nicks #12

 

 

I guess the question is: Is the Pats offense good because of those high ranked WRs? Or are those WRs ranked that high, because they are in the Pats offense?

 

Im not arguing that the Bills WRs are on par with the others, but if Fitz doesnt get injured, I think you see our WRs with better stats. Brady executing the offense has as much to do with the WR success as anything else. Same for Eli in NY.

 

Id love to see an improvement at the position, but I cant say that none of our guys can step up. If our ground attack produces as it should, and Fitz stays healthy, we could easily end up with 3+ WRs in the top 50.

[JESSEFEFFER]

If the Bills have Stevie, Nelson, Chandler, Fred/CJ and some other guy (Jones, Graham, Easley, Hagan, whoever) their offense will have enough options to function whether that 5th guy is a consistent contributor or not. When the injuries come, and they will, is when we will all notice if their strategy to improve their WR depth internally has worked.

[thewildrabbit]

I guess the question is: Is the Pats offense good because of those high ranked WRs? Or are those WRs ranked that high, because they are in the Pats offense?

 

Im not arguing that the Bills WRs are on par with the others, but if Fitz doesnt get injured, I think you see our WRs with better stats. Brady executing the offense has as much to do with the WR success as anything else. Same for Eli in NY.

 

Id love to see an improvement at the position, but I cant say that none of our guys can step up. If our ground attack produces as it should, and Fitz stays healthy, we could easily end up with 3+ WRs in the top 50.

The main problem with the Bills offense was the lack of a mid to deep passing game due to sub par O line. Limited with a one trick pony passing offense with their quick, short passing scheme as it held them back greatly compared to the Patriots. Then the injuries further hampered the offense.

 

Welker is an unbelievable WR and they have two very good tight ends as outlets, the Patriots didn't have the deep passing game they used to have with Randy Moss. Still, they were able to run those shotgun 3-5 WR sets with great success as Brady has much better protection with a better O line then the Bills have.

 

The Patriots not only have a better receiving corps, better O line, better QB, better play caller. It all goes hand in hand, who is to say that if the Bills fielded talent around Fitz like Brady has that Fitz couldn't put up around the same numbers. I think Fitz has done more with so much lesser talent around him. Plus Fitz is a very mobile QB, almost Mike Vickesque. Brady would have been carried out on a stretcher before mid season the last two years IMO.

 

 

It remains to be seen if the O line has improved this year with Glenn on the roster. It also remains to be seen if any of the promising young wide outs on the roster can even come close to the talent of David Nelson. Kinda sucks the Bills will wait until the bullets start flying before they figure anything out

[Cub Reporter]

Why are our receivers a problem, we have a good bunch of young talent. Much of which we don't even know how good they are yet (ie. Graham, Easley, Aiken).

[FleaMoulds80]

Trade our #1 to KC for Dwayne Bowe....

 

That's a stupid idea...

[thewildrabbit]

If nobody steps up by the end of preseason to be that #2 or #3 WR the Bills should at least take a look at Plaxico Burress or perhaps pursue a trade for Mike Wallace. The Bills need a top #2 & #3 WR to make that offense more potent. One decent WR isn't going to get it done.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Welker is an unbelievable WR and they have two very good tight ends as outlets, the Patriots didn't have the deep passing game they used to have with Randy Moss. Still, they were able to run those shotgun 3-5 WR sets with great success as Brady hashad much better protection with a better O line then the Bills have.

 

Fixed. Whether he still has one with all the injuries and retirements, remains to be determined on Sundays.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Combiining stats of Jackson and Spiller makes little sense to me because they share a position and because projecting stats based on a partial stats is tough to back up again. Injuries have become so prevalent that they are to be expected more than feared.

 

OK, let's try to look at the situation a different way (responding to your post, Kemp, but including some responses to other posters)

 

Fitz passed for 3832 yds last season (11 in the NFL). All of those yards went to some players receiving total.

 

Stevie Johnson caught 1004 of them (#19 in NFL)

 

That means our goon-squad of "other" receivers, managed to combine sufficient catches for 2 additional #19 receivers plus a #38 WR worth of yardage (820 yds) in addition.

 

Could the Bills wideouts be better? Yes.

 

Is it the total dire disaster it seems to be being portrayed as? Look at the numbers and judge for yourself.

 

And given that Stevie is only responsible for hauling in about 25% of Fitz's yardage, I would advise the opposing defense: "go ahead and get all certain about where the ball is going."

Edited August 7, 2012 by Hopeful

[Who is Yuri?]

I can't fret about these concerns, Sirs. I had rather that coach Chan Gailey, is indeed very concerned. Since one's mutual concern was prompted by Chan's quoted concern, it seems Chan is in control of the situation. I do not need to intervene... for once!

[3rdand12]

I can't fret about these concerns, Sirs. I had rather that coach Chan Gailey, is indeed very concerned. Since one's mutual concern was prompted by Chan's quoted concern, it seems Chan is in control of the situation. I do not need to intervene... for once!

Mr Kafka has found the answer and the question. Well done Franz!

Does Chan want to prove that he can scheme to his players and not need a true #1 and #2?

As Buddy possibly wants to show his talent with the waiver wire and drafting (low budget )?

Highly intelligent gentlemen with a 100 years of football experience between them and the ethics,moral values, and skills to boot.

This is the highlight of their lives possibly.

Great discourse gentlemens all. i did read the Whole thing.

whatever weaknesses we have will be overcome by supreme effort.

go bills