DrDawkinstein Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 Winfield got a $10M roster bonus which the Bills couldn't match, and at the time was a solid but unspectacular CB. Clements was sorely overpaid and completely underperformed his contract. I didn't think either was a major loss. Im right there with you. I didnt think either were really worth the money they were able to command. But the fact that they were able to get that much, and their play on the field, shows they clearly were not busts. If there is anything to worry about, it is the Bills re-signing Gilmore. Given this new FO's track record, Id say chances are very good that they do.
Bill from NYC Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 If there is anything to worry about, it is the Bills re-signing Gilmore. This IS a major concern.
Doc Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 Im right there with you. I didnt think either were really worth the money they were able to command. But the fact that they were able to get that much, and their play on the field, shows they clearly were not busts. If there is anything to worry about, it is the Bills re-signing Gilmore. Given this new FO's track record, Id say chances are very good that they do. I don't know if I can say they were busts, but for being 1st rounders, they weren't great players, or at least in Clements case, didn't play great consistently (he played well every other season). And again, in Winfield's case, it was a matter of not being able to match the offer, while Clements wasn't worth it. If Gilmore proves to be a stud, they'll keep him.
Kemp Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 WHAT ?? Graham has looked real good in camp.. Better the advertised. He has a nice set of hands... A nice set of hands? 10 fumbles last year. Let's see those hands when he is being hit and being afraid of being hit. Judging by practice is an interesting way to determine a nice set of hands on a receiver. At least wait until game action before you declare him cured of dropsys.
DanInUticaTampa Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 And I think that if Stevie and Nelson remain healthy, that when combined with Chandler, Freddy, and Spiller, that it won't matter much who the other wideouts are. However if one of the two gets injured, it becomes a very different scenario, IMO. I think this is the saving grace of the passing offense. As much as it bothers me that players like Jones are competing for the number 2 spot, there are other receiving options that seem to be doing well. Chandler has gotten nothing but praise from what I have read, and then we all know how dangerous freddy and spillar at on the passing game. So although our receivers are not as good as we like, there will be plenty of options for Fitz besides nelson and Stevie.
DrDawkinstein Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 At least wait until game action before you declare... You could probably stop right there, yourself
Doc Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 A nice set of hands? 10 fumbles last year. Let's see those hands when he is being hit and being afraid of being hit. Judging by practice is an interesting way to determine a nice set of hands on a receiver. At least wait until game action before you declare him cured of dropsys. He had 6 fumbles last year, and you can work on decreasing fumbles. Tiki Barber and AP were able to cut them down.
sllib olaffub Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) Another thing about recievers and this team: we simply don't have much room - as surprising as that sounds, considering we're worried about the talent of the WR's - to add any other WR's, unless they are high-end, high draft pick types. If you think about it, we're already on the fence about who we might have to cut going into the season. We're saying they might lose a good WR or two - guys like Roosevelt, Aiken, Easley. Other teams have WR's that were drafted in the mid to lower rounds and who end up being pleasant surprises (Giants rising star comes to mind), but we'd be wasting picks to keep adding guys like that, because we have plenty of guys with borderline starting talent. My point to all this is, despite people saying we need better WR's, or we might be in trouble there, we actually have a very good group of WR's, ABSENT ONE LEGITIMATE starter. So, I think we find that guy next year. IMO, next year's draft, depending on how Fitz plays this year, will see us picking a QB, DE, and WR with our first picks. Imagine how GOOD our recieving corps would be if we had a star opposite Stevie! Then guys like Nelson, Graham, and Easley could be seen as very good 3rd and 4th options. Amazing what a difference one player can make. And, for all we know, Easley or Graham could turn out to be the guy we're all wishing we had. In a little over a month, we'll all find out! Edited August 5, 2012 by sllib olaffub
DanInUticaTampa Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 Another thing about recievers and this team: we simply don't have much room - as surprising as that sounds, considering we're worried about the talent of the WR's - to add any other WR's, unless they are high-end, high draft pick types. that is what we need. we need a more solid player opposite stevie. hagan, graham, easley, and jones battleing for that number 2 opposite stevie is pretty weak. All four of those have huge questionmarks, and none of them have proven that they can be in that role and play consistantly that play. Hagan was doing pretty good until the past few practices. Jones has made a lot of errors, that one with the ball hitting him in the helmet being the most alarming (and he has never had really good hands), easilly hasn't been able to hit the field, and graham is more than likely going to be a developmental player, and will take time. None of these players are what you really want in a number 2. But I also think that this is more glaring just because everything else seems ok. I would say, that unless something really freaky happens, going into the next offseason, the top needs of the bills will be: developmental QB, WR, LB depth, and maybe a saftey.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 that was part of it, combined with a porous D that made it difficult for the offense to keep up, and not having Fred Jackson were all contributing factors. that said, some of Fitzpatrick's interceptions were on him, too. he had to be better. jw Thanks for the input, John. No question that some of Fitz's interceptions were "wtf?" ducks that didn't go where he wanted them to, and some were errors in judgement, trying to force a ball that should not have been thrown. Then there are the balls tipped at the line, which can always be a problem unless Wood is there to put the whammy in the jumper's gut. But to my observation some of them were miscommunications, timing routes where the receiver didn't get there or went somewhere else, And some were deflections off the WR hands. Overall, no argument that the Fitz has to play better, just saying our WR need to be coached better and play better. For one long ago example, Kelly's INTs would have soared if his WR corps weren't so good at defending the passes they couldn't catch.
Best Player Available Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 Im right there with you. I didnt think either were really worth the money they were able to command. But the fact that they were able to get that much, and their play on the field, shows they clearly were not busts. If there is anything to worry about, it is the Bills re-signing Gilmore. Given this new FO's track record, Id say chances are very good that they do. Yikes, the kid has yet to even play a pre-season game and there are worries about re-signing him? Seriously? I cannot wait until 9-9-12.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 Yikes, the kid has yet to even play a pre-season game and there are worries about re-signing him? Seriously? I cannot wait until 9-9-12. I'm concerned that after he leaves the Bills in free agency that he might not want to come back and sign a one day contract to retire as a Bill.
DrDawkinstein Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 Yikes, the kid has yet to even play a pre-season game and there are worries about re-signing him? Seriously? I cannot wait until 9-9-12. Nope. No serious worries about re-signing him for me. Especially with the reputation Nix/Whaley are building. Just addressing the fact that it would be a more accurate historical problem with the Bills, rather than the player busting. I cant wait for this Thursday!!
Best Player Available Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 I'm concerned that after he leaves the Bills in free agency that he might not want to come back and sign a one day contract to retire as a Bill. Nope, he will have to. He will have won a couple rings with the Bills, and have to retire as a Bill!
Snorom Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 A nice set of hands? 10 fumbles last year. Let's see those hands when he is being hit and being afraid of being hit. Judging by practice is an interesting way to determine a nice set of hands on a receiver. At least wait until game action before you declare him cured of dropsys. that's why we play some preseason to see how he handles it. If the guy is going long and gaining separation, fumbles won't be much of an issue. You haven't seen this guy play for us yet... as I agree that is a concern, but he can catch and run like a MF
Kemp Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 You could probably stop right there, yourself Someone said Graham has displayed good hands. History shows otherwise and it still remains true that he hasn't played a game yet. There was a reason he was projected to go 3 or 4 rounds later than he was taken and it's not his lack of speed or size. He had 6 fumbles last year, and you can work on decreasing fumbles. Tiki Barber and AP were able to cut them down. You're right. It was 10 over his last two seasons. An impressive stat for a WR.
Doc Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 Someone said Graham has displayed good hands. History shows otherwise and it still remains true that he hasn't played a game yet. There was a reason he was projected to go 3 or 4 rounds later than he was taken and it's not his lack of speed or size. You're right. It was 10 over his last two seasons. An impressive stat for a WR. We get it, Kemp. But the past is the past. Just make sure you have enough to cover the $50 for the Merriman bet.
billsfan89 Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) Its almost like Chan is hoping that two of these guys (Roosevelt, Easley, Haggan, Graham, or Jones and whoever) will step up and be able to fill the #2 WR role and the other provide decent depth in case of injury. Its kind of a crapshoot. But lets see if it pays off come pre-season and of course regular season. I think its the biggest weakness of the team at this point. Yeah LB's on the defensive side of the ball, but its a group that isn't as important to the D. Edited August 6, 2012 by billsfan89
Kemp Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 We get it, Kemp. But the past is the past. Just make sure you have enough to cover the $50 for the Merriman bet. I am glad you wrote this. I forgot who I made the bet with. If i lose i will pay even though my 39 children will have to live off govrrnment cheese. I hope that i lose and Merriman is once again great, but i doubt it will happen.
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