Concerns rasied about Buffalo's receiving corps

[bowery4]

Hey DIE HARD 1967 nice to see you still lurking around these parts .

I think Chan is a challenging guy as a coach with some guys or even units. He called out Andy last year and he stepped up big after that. The dropsies are a big bad problem for WRs to have and as a unit if they can't get it together....well I am sure there will be changes. Lighting a fire under peoples butts and telling them that is fine with me.

[Dragonborn10]

Trade our #1 to KC for Dwayne Bowe....

You are right. It is time to go all in for the playoffs this year. Get Bowe or Wallace. A first round draft pick WR could take years ot develop. Get a veteran now. We have an average at best TE, an average QB, and question marks at 4 of the 5 offensive line positions. Adding a superstar on the outside takes pressure off of the entire offense especially the running game.

[Kemp]

The shame of this is the badly blown selection of Graham. If a guy can't hold onto the ball in college, his chances of doing so in the pros is very poor.

[loserlovers]

You are right. It is time to go all in for the playoffs this year. Get Bowe or Wallace. A first round draft pick WR could take years ot develop. Get a veteran now. We have an average at best TE, an average QB, and question marks at 4 of the 5 offensive line positions. Adding a superstar on the outside takes pressure off of the entire offense especially the running game.

i htink you mean "solid starters" right?

which one of these is a question mark...

1.Levitre

2.Urbik

3.Wood

4.Hairston

 

all have played a year or more with great results, an injury to wood is the only thing i can think of a being a question mark so might as well add mario, freddy, SJ, and kWilliams to your list since they are all coming off injury too.

 

adding any troubled WR would be stupid at this point at the cost of potentially ruining team chemisrty. Let SJ be the leader and let a rookie break through, we run 4 wr, a dominant WR isnt as important as people think in this offense.

 

I never checked out Two Bills Drive, thanks for the info.

 

my bad, how did you find this forum then? i thought everyone here started there. also if you want unique bills info, i can email you my opinions which you may then quote as a "trusted source" here on the forum. Basically it will always be something regarding trent edwards sucking. :-)

[Doc]

My concerns are Stevie's groin and Nelson's knee. If either guy is out any significant time this year, it's a bad thing, as it would be for any team losing their top-2 WR's. The #2 WR will be filled by a good-enough-at-least player and is the least important position on offense for the Bills. Last year, the offense was playing great in the first 7 games with first-time starter Jones and Spiller as the #2 WR contributing ~35 yards/game.

[ddaryl]

The shame of this is the badly blown selection of Graham. If a guy can't hold onto the ball in college, his chances of doing so in the pros is very poor.

 

 

WHAT ??

 

Graham has looked real good in camp.. Better the advertised. He has a nice set of hands...

 

 

 

We don't have a WR problem. Hagan is looking sharp. Nelson was solid last year and will be again. Jones is having a solid camp. We already have Johnson.

 

 

the only question we have left is who grabs the 6th spot.

 

 

 

All the camp reports I've read I have not heard much to be concerned about outside a few off days, but practicing hard in heat day after day is bound to beat down anybody, and everyone in camp has a bad day or 2

 

My concerns are Stevie's groin and Nelson's knee. If either guy is out any significant time this year, it's a bad thing, as it would be for any team losing their top-2 WR's. The #2 WR will be filled by a good-enough-at-least player and is the least important position on offense for the Bills. Last year, the offense was playing great in the first 7 games with first-time starter Jones and Spiller as the #2 WR contributing ~35 yards/game.

 

 

If we lose our #1 WR and our #2 WR production wise yeah this team will suffer.

 

But name one pro team that couldd lose there top 2 WR's and not suffer...

[HOUSE]

i htink you mean "solid starters" right?

which one of these is a question mark...

1.Levitre

2.Urbik

3.Wood

4.Hairston

 

all have played a year or more with great results, an injury to wood is the only thing i can think of a being a question mark so might as well add mario, freddy, SJ, and kWilliams to your list since they are all coming off injury too.

 

adding any troubled WR would be stupid at this point at the cost of potentially ruining team chemisrty. Let SJ be the leader and let a rookie break through, we run 4 wr, a dominant WR isnt as important as people think in this offense.

 

 

my bad, how did you find this forum then? i thought everyone here started there. also if you want unique bills info, i can email you my opinions which you may then quote as a "trusted source" here on the forum. Basically it will always be something regarding trent edwards sucking. :-)

 

I am new to all message boards, I was probably drunk when I signed up but I really appreciate your guidance on the board, I now understand how the forums work.

 

Thanks again.

Edited August 5, 2012 by HOUSE

[Toshiero]

We still have no true threat at #2 WR. This team is going with other teams 3's and 4's as our starters and backups opposite Stevie and it is going to continue to haunt us till its addressed. We have over 7 mill available in Cap room, time to make a trade or do something to get the WR talent upgraded.

[Delete This Account]

Question for you, jw...

 

Myself, I was talking about drops. And it seems that is what Chan was referring to today, the number of drops. He is also not happy lately about missing assignments.

 

What I don't know, not having been at training camp, is this: Is the concern for the WR corps as a whole about dropping passes, or is the concern simply about the overall problem with the 3-5 or 6 WR spots, which includes drops, missing assignments, not being able to separate or get off the line, not running great routes, not winning the battles for the jump balls, blocking, etc?

 

I imagine his issue is the second one, and not the amount of drops, which was the problem it seems today.

 

IMO, i don't see any of these 3-6 guys having a great camp so far, or winning the #2 job outright, but that between them, especially Jones, Hagan, Graham and Easley, they will pose enough of a threat when they are on the field to allow the offense to be an efficient machine because of the talents of Fred, Spiller, SJ, Chandler, Fitz, etc.

the trouble isn't entirely the drops, though that's a symptom. the concern is how far behind, sometimes, the backup receivers are in understanding the nuances of the offense.

as Gailey had said, and something i didn't put into the story (though i paraphrased it when noting no one had "stepped up" in the second graf), is how far ahead Johnson and Nelson are in being on the same page with Fitzpatrick. and the concern is how far some of these other receivers have to go to get there.

 

the one real example i cited was how Donald Jones failed to realize he was the hot receiver and not look back for the ball, only to have Fitzpatrick's pass bounce off the back of his helmet. that's not a drop, that's something more.

 

Hagan was having a great camp, and then struggled the past two days. Graham has potential, and is a good driven kid, but the jury's still out on how much he can contribute as a rookie, especially early in the season.

 

as noted, this was a conern, remains a concern, and one that still bears watching.

 

funny thing is, i've been going on several radio shows apologizing for my optimism in regards to the Bills chances this season, for a team that's not made the playoffs in 13 years. and i think it's important on my end to maintain perspective, write positive stories when i see them, and raise questions when warranted, which is why i thought it important to write this piece.

 

Gailey's comments merely confirmed the way i was heading already.

 

jw

Edited August 5, 2012 by john wawrow

[Ramblin' Rob]

THE SKY IS FAAALLLLLLING!!!!!!

 

As we have witnessed many times, and seen written here many times, every team has weaknesses.

WR was a MAJOR concern last off season and the WR's had an adequate season, no reason to think it will be any different this year.

Especially when based on motivational coach speak.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

And what of my theory that the offense is more complex at the advent of its 3rd season (referencing Gailey's remarks about Young being at a disadvantage because it's more advanced than it was in year one)?

 

I think your theory may well be correct, and that overall what it means is that we're now on a level of complexity that should be competitive in the league.

 

It shouldn't be too hard for a football player of average "football intelligence" to master

 

The Bills in the Superbowl years also put a premium on intelligence in their players. Levy was quoted as saying they gave the players IQ tests.

 

A person with a bad leg should not pick on people that are fairly new to the NFL, now should they House?

 

lol,

 

Die Hard! Good to see you back, man!

 

the trouble isn't entirely the drops, though that's a symptom. the concern is how far behind, sometimes, the backup receivers are in understanding the nuances of the offense.

as Gailey had said, and something i didn't put into the story (though i paraphrased it when noting no one had "stepped up" in the second graf), is how far ahead Johnson and Nelson are in being on the same page with Fitzpatrick. and the concern is how far some of these other receivers have to go to get there.

 

the one real example i cited was how Donald Jones failed to realize he was the hot receiver and not look back for the ball, only to have Fitzpatrick's pass bounce off the back of his helmet. that's not a drop, that's something more.

 

Hagan was having a great camp, and then struggled the past two days. Graham has potential, and is a good driven kid, but the jury's still out on how much he can contribute as a rookie, especially early in the season.

 

John, do you feel the lack of "nuanced understanding" in the backup WR is one reason for (some of the) INTs at the end of last season?

I recall at least one presser where Chan was saying "we have got to do a better job of getting the WR to where he (Fitz) feels they ought to be".

 

Since it's claimed Chan coaches "run to the spot" and the Bills O clearly has timing elements, if Fitz throws to a spot and the WR isn't there because he doesn't understand that's where he's supposed to be, it's "open season" on the ball by the D.

 

I did notice we got rid of the WR coach after last season.

[Bill from NYC]

Raise your hand if you didn't think the wide receiver position was going to be a weakness? The jets wideouts are worse than ours, but surely ours are towards the bottom in the league. Maybe Chad's intricate play calling can free them up. This is what I am hoping.

We had the opportunity to address this need a bit more in the draft, but alas, we went with yet another db. I hope Gilmore fares better than our large group of first round defensive back busts. And while we are there, some production from A. Williams wouldn't hurt either.

[Beerball]

I read it as standard coach-talk, using the media to call a player out for excessive screw-ups (dropped balls etc)

 

Basically, Chan challenging these WR to step up their game, no excuses, get the job done or we'll find somebody who can.

Yeah, he gave them a public scolding.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just read the article, and watched the video of Chan's presser on BB.com.

 

I didnt see/hear anything that indicates things are "really bad" at WR depth. Sounds more like Chan is trying to light a fire under them so he can push them faster. Our first preseason game is THIS WEEK, and he needs these guys ready in a complicated offense.

 

There is just as much praise in that article, as there is criticism. And even Stevie says

''He's just putting a little bit of pressure on the guys, and I'm pretty sure they're up to the challenge,'' Johnson said. ''I have a lot of confidence in these guys.''

 

Really, the most negative part of that article is the last bit, and not surprisingly it's about Troup.

 

Backup DT Torell Troup had a setback in his bid to recover from back surgery. After being able to practice on a limited basis through much of camp, he spent Saturday in the training room.

 

It HAS to be the final countdown on Troup. Not sure why they havent moved on and brought in another player at a position of need.

[The Senator]

This WR thing is extremely troubling. There is absolutely no excuse for dropping passes on a 100-degree day, especially in light of the fact that we are now already in the 10th day of training camp.

 

That the offensive schemes are not fully installed at this late stage, and that the entire WR corp is still not in perfect lock-step with Fitz regarding patterns and timing this far along into our preparation for the upcoming season, is a clear reflection on the inability of Gailey and his staff - along with an obvious complete lack of football talent on the Bills roster.

 

Chan must go. Nix too. In fact, it's time to scrap the entire organization and current roster, and start rebuilding. But it won't happen, because Ralph is cheap...

 

 

 

 

GO BILLSSS!!!!

 

 

"I expect to be undefeated...I expect to win every game." - Chan Gailey

 

19 and 0 baby!!!!!

[DrDawkinstein]

Raise your hand if you didn't think the wide receiver position was going to be a weakness? The jets wideouts are worse than ours, but surely ours are towards the bottom in the league. Maybe Chad's intricate play calling can free them up. This is what I am hoping.

We had the opportunity to address this need a bit more in the draft, but alas, we went with yet another db. I hope Gilmore fares better than our large group of first round defensive back busts. And while we are there, some production from A. Williams wouldn't hurt either.

 

Stop right there. I dont think you are remembering correctly. And your hatred for early DBs is going to have you embarrassing yourself.

 

The problem hasnt been that the DBs bust. The problem has been that they are very good, and we dont re-sign them after their rookie contract because they can command too much on the market, or our FO was being cheap.

 

Was Winfield a bust? Was Clements? Because I dont know many busts that go on to sign $100mil contracts.

 

So outside of McKelvin not living up to his draft position, who has been a 1st round DB bust??

 

As it stands, our two most recent early DBs are our starters. Gilmore is our #1 CB right now. Had we not drafted him, who would be starting back there?

Edited August 5, 2012 by DrDareustein

[Lurker]

Glad to see the Wall shifting from it's offseason euphoria to regular season Chicken Little mode.

 

That means its time to play some football (Thursday night can't come quick enough)...

Edited August 5, 2012 by Lurker

[Doc]

Raise your hand if you didn't think the wide receiver position was going to be a weakness? The jets wideouts are worse than ours, but surely ours are towards the bottom in the league. Maybe Chad's intricate play calling can free them up. This is what I am hoping.

We had the opportunity to address this need a bit more in the draft, but alas, we went with yet another db. I hope Gilmore fares better than our large group of first round defensive back busts. And while we are there, some production from A. Williams wouldn't hurt either.

Are any of the WR's taken before Graham lighting-it-up in camp? I haven't heard any glowing reports about any rookie WR's.

[Delete This Account]

 

John, do you feel the lack of "nuanced understanding" in the backup WR is one reason for (some of the) INTs at the end of last season?

I recall at least one presser where Chan was saying "we have got to do a better job of getting the WR to where he (Fitz) feels they ought to be".

 

that was part of it, combined with a porous D that made it difficult for the offense to keep up, and not having Fred Jackson were all contributing factors. that said, some of Fitzpatrick's interceptions were on him, too. he had to be better.

 

and no, the sky isn't falling folks. just trying to take a shade off the rosy color.

the Bills have a good receiving corps at the top of the list, with Stevie Johnson, David Nelson, Scott Chandler and, it looks like C.J. Spiller will play a bigger role in the attack. the question is how good are the guys behind them, especially if those top ranks are depleted by injuries?

 

jw

[Doc]

Stop right there. I dont think you are remembering correctly. And your hatred for early DBs is going to have you embarrassing yourself.

 

The problem hasnt been that the DBs bust. The problem has been that they are very good, and we dont re-sign them after their rookie contract because they can command too much on the market, or our FO was being cheap.

 

Was Winfield a bust? Was Clements? Because I dont know many busts that go on to sign $100mil contracts.

 

So outside of McKelvin not living up to his draft position, who has been a 1st round DB bust??

 

As it stands, our two most recent early DBs are our starters. Gilmore is our #1 CB right now. Had we not drafted him, who would be starting back there?

Winfield got a $10M roster bonus which the Bills couldn't match, and at the time was a solid but unspectacular CB. Clements was sorely overpaid and completely underperformed his contract. I didn't think either was a major loss.