Chef Jim Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 But in the 2007-2008-2009 time frame, not impossible (even likely in '08). Which I got the impression was the time frame Reid was referring to. Which is shocking on Reid's part - he missed the obvious "Paid no taxes while he was being bailed out by your tax money" sound byte. I'm guessing he wants the tax returns to lay the groundwork for it... And who knows what kind of carry forward losses he has for those years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I'm sorry but someone who uses the tax code to their advantage goes on a pedestal in my book. I help people mitigate their tax burden all the time utilizing all the tools we have at our disposal. One fo the favorite parts of my job. To each his own... Doesn't make it honorable. There are flag makers and then there is the guy who turned the guns that the Colorado shooter used. You be the the judge of what's honorable in your heart. Both of those person's did the legal thing... I got nothing wrong with that... I just hold one higher than the next, and so should society. So that must be the smoke the EII was referring to. No. The PR smoke. Let the people be the judge of what's more honorable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 No. The PR smoke. Let the people be the judge of what's more honorable. PR smoke. What the hell does that mean? And let me ask you is paying his legal share of taxes and giving millions to charity honorable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 But in the 2007-2008-2009 time frame, not impossible (even likely in '08). Which I got the impression was the time frame Reid was referring to. Which is shocking on Reid's part - he missed the obvious "Paid no taxes while he was being bailed out by your tax money" sound byte. I'm guessing he wants the tax returns to lay the groundwork for it... I didn't mean to tie it to the tax issue. Helping others is pretty honorable, IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 PR smoke. What the hell does that mean? And let me ask you is paying his legal share of taxes and giving millions to charity honorable? No. He should be paying those millions to the gubment, so it can be wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 No. He should be paying those millions to the gubment, so it can be wasted. Government is great, government is good and we thank it for our food By its hand, we all are fed Give us, Obama, our daily bread Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Government is great, government is good and we thank it for our food By its hand, we all are fed Give us, Obama, our daily bread Amen Are you not a fan of our very efficient military? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) No. He should be paying those millions to the gubment, so it can be wasted. That's your opinion. You don't have any trust and faith in the government. This doesn't mean blind faith. I am not advocating for blind faith. We have become a sad nation of selfish skeptics. Edited August 5, 2012 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 We have become a sad nation of selfish skeptics. Says the guy who wants to check Romney's tax returns for fraud himself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Says the guy who wants to check Romney's tax returns for fraud himself... Hay... Fine tooth comb... Fine tooth comb, brother. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Hay... Fine tooth comb... Fine tooth comb, brother. :-) That doesn't wook. I've watched Spaceballs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomato can Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) Most rich people pay less in percentage than the average working American, but pay far more in total amount. The tax laws allow for deductions to be made to lower tax burden and everyone would be wise to make use of them to their fullest extent. But this isn't a new development as the tax laws have existed for decades, and nothing was done to change them in the past, much less in Barry's first 2 years. That's because Congresscritters like Reid and Pelosi are taking advantage of them. That's why Barry and Congresscritters complaining about how the rich pay less percentage-wise is a joke and is purely political. The same goes for the Bush-era tax cuts. Back in 2010, Barry said that it would be unwise to restore previous tax levels to even the wealthiest in a bad economy. But now that the economy is flagging again, it's a good idea? You are absolutely right! Reid and Pelosi and taking advantage of them also. They are also saying the wealthy should pay more. Why don't repubs turn the tables on Reid and Pelosi and say yes the wealthy should pay more let get this tax code crap right and make sure the wealthy pay their share. It surely would take money out of Reid & Pelosi pocket! You don't think Barry cheated on his returns from 1997-1999, hence the reason he didn't release them? Or that any of his dealings as president would qualify as shady? If so, I've got a solar panel company to sell you, cheap. If he cheated I want to know! Mitt should call on both Barry and him to release their taxes at the same time and the let the people decide. The poor have the same deal. Their needs are paid-for, so they can pay for their wants. The middle class should be more pissed at the far greater number of people on welfare than the less than 1% who pay a lower percentage in taxes, but still pay a ton. So the needs of the poor are PAID for! Got it. I knew it wasn't the welfare recipients running the deficits up. Since that welfare stuff is paid for we need the 1% to up their share so we can reduce the deficits they helped cause by manipulating their taxes. Edited August 5, 2012 by tomato can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Says the guy who wants to check Romney's tax returns for fraud himself... Bingo. Ahhhh the hypocrisy of the left rears it's ugly head once again. If he cheated I want to know! Mitt should call on both Barry and him to release their taxes at the same time and the let the people decide. Good lord folks if he cheated the LAST place you'll see evidence of that is on his tax return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomato can Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I'm sorry but someone who uses the tax code to their advantage goes on a pedestal in my book. I help people mitigate their tax burden all the time utilizing all the tools we have at our disposal. One fo the favorite parts of my job. The definition of Manipulate :to manage or influence skillfully, especially in an unfair manner: So Jim you have people who manipulate the tax code on a pedestal because they are just using the tools at their disposal. Got it! What about the people who manipulate the welfare system so they can get more. I mean they are just using the tools they have at their disposal. The rich game the tax system and the poor game the entitlement system. They are really no different. However something tells me that it pisses you off that welfare recipients take advantage of these handouts and you want that greatly reduced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 The definition of Manipulate :to manage or influence skillfully, especially in an unfair manner: So Jim you have people who manipulate the tax code on a pedestal because they are just using the tools at their disposal. Got it! What about the people who manipulate the welfare system so they can get more. I mean they are just using the tools they have at their disposal. The rich game the tax system and the poor game the entitlement system. They are really no different. However something tells me that it pisses you off that welfare recipients take advantage of these handouts and you want that greatly reduced? He said "use". YOU said "manipulate". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 The definition of Manipulate :to manage or influence skillfully, especially in an unfair manner: So Jim you have people who manipulate the tax code on a pedestal because they are just using the tools at their disposal. Got it! What about the people who manipulate the welfare system so they can get more. I mean they are just using the tools they have at their disposal. The rich game the tax system and the poor game the entitlement system. They are really no different. However something tells me that it pisses you off that welfare recipients take advantage of these handouts and you want that greatly reduced? Fundamental difference: The welfare recipient is taking someone else's money, the guy using tax shelters is keeping his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Fundamental difference: The welfare recipient is taking someone else's money, the guy using tax shelters is keeping his own. It's not his, because he didn't earn it. Somebody else made that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldTraveller Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Fundamental difference: The welfare recipient is taking someone else's money, the guy using tax shelters is keeping his own. Somehow, in his mind, it's the same. No worries tomato, the entire democratic party has the same belief that you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomato can Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 He said "use". YOU said "manipulate". Jim to EII-(If he paid less of percentage than the average American but because his income is mostly capital gains and you can manipulate those gains under the system legally then would you still consider him a tax cheat? ) EII to Jim - (That is a tough one Chef. No matter who it is, you can't fault them for what they can legally get away with. But, you can't look up to them or put the on a pedestal either. Like you said, you have to view them as a "tax manipulator.") Jim to EII - (I'm sorry but someone who uses the tax code to their advantage goes on a pedestal in my book. I help people mitigate their tax burden all the time utilizing all the tools we have at our disposal. One fo the favorite parts of my job. ) Easy with the spin Tom. The back and forth between Jim and EII is above. Jim pretty much said he was okay with people USING the tools they have legally to manipulate those gains! Fundamental difference: The welfare recipient is taking someone else's money, the guy using tax shelters is keeping his own. Fundamental - a basic principle, rule, law, or the like, that serves as the groundwork of a system; That serves as the groundwork of a system. Hence the tax system and the welfare system. They both are applying the same principal. How do you not understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Fundamental difference: The welfare recipient is taking someone else's money, the guy using tax shelters is keeping his own. Not always. What is the % of the gov't budget on social welfare? Are welfare recipients working and paying SOME taxes? Heck many work at Walmart. Walmart will even steer them to the gov't benefits so they won't have to make up the difference in higher wages. Your argument doesn't hold too much water. Many are earning and giving to the gov't via taxes. He said "use". YOU said "manipulate". Jim specifically said: manipulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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