Does anyone think this years class is weak

[Logical Reasoning]

I am just as excited about the beginning of football as any rabid fan, but I have always been able to rationalize the hall of fame class. Even the older guys have had stats and data to prove their value and I also believe in the concept of a 'time period' player who might not be able to play real well today but dominated when he played. This leads me to wonder about Curtis Martin and Cortez Kennedy. There is no question that they are two very good players, but not hall of fame players. As Bills fans, we saw Martin twice a year when with the Jets and Pats and he did everything very well and was a very tough back but there are many players who have played similar to him that are not in the hall. Kennedy was also strong but nothing striking either.

 

It seems as though the advocacy groups and the politicking have pulled the credibility and prowess of the football HOF. It would be a shame if this continues because it represents a great game with great players who were the best of the best.

[mrags]

I think Martin deserves to be there but not before Andre. Kennedy leaves me guessing though.

[Ennjay]

The Pro Football HOF selection process always strikes me as suspect. I don't think Howie Long belongs but he's on Fox and everyone seems to love him. On the other hand, WR's have a tough time and no Steve Tasker is criminal.

[Best Player Available]

The Pro Football HOF selection process always strikes me as suspect. I don't think Howie Long belongs but he's on Fox and everyone seems to love him. On the other hand, WR's have a tough time and no Steve Tasker is criminal.

I think Tasker will get in someday. Possibly not until he is long gone.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Kennedy was one of the best DT's to play. Not sure what the surprise is... Not quite as good as Sapp, much better career than Pat Williams, who was flat out awesome.

 

I'd still love to see Reed get in but it's going to be tough. As his accomplishments look less impressive as the new nfl overshadows his career. But if Monk is there reed has a case, though not before Chris carter and Tim brown who were both caught more balls scored more tds and produced more yards.

[Shamrock]

Maybe if the Hall didn't have guarranteed entries other than 5 year retirement we'd be getting fewer guys in & the guys in wouldn't be debatable, they'd walk in.

[metzelaars_lives]

The fact that Cris Carter isn't in the hall of fame yet is a complete and utter joke. With MLB, you know what a hall of famer is and isn't, but with the NFL, they are so incredibly inconsistent with respect to who gets in and who doesn't. Cortez Kennedy before Cris Carter? What? Curtis Martin is like a Bert Blyleven- a guy who was fortunate to stay healthy and play long enough to compile impressive stats, but not someone who would necessarily strike fear into their opponents. I firmly believe Carter is the second best modern-era WR of all-time. My top 5: 1. Rice, 2. Carter, 3. Largent, 4. Harrison, 5. Moss/Owens.

 

Also: Jim Kelly was a first-ballot HOF'er and Thurman Thomas was a second-ballot HOF'er. Those should've been reversed.

Edited August 2, 2012 by metzelaars_lives

[Buftex]

The fact that Cris Carter isn't in the hall of fame yet is a complete and utter joke. With MLB, you know what a hall of famer is and isn't, but with the NFL, they are so incredibly inconsistent with respect to who gets in and who doesn't. Cortez Kennedy before Cris Carter? What? Curtis Martin is like a Bert Blyleven- a guy who was fortunate to stay healthy and play long enough to compile impressive stats, but not someone who would necessarily strike fear into their opponents. I firmly believe Carter is the second best modern-era WR of all-time. My top 5: 1. Rice, 2. Carter, 3. Largent, 4. Harrison, 5. Moss/Owens.

 

Also: Jim Kelly was a first-ballot HOF'er and Thurman Thomas was a second-ballot HOF'er. Those should've been reversed.

 

 

Now, why can't they both be first ballot HOF'ers?

 

Kelly (and I suppose Thurman and A Reed too) seem to have people (Bills fans) overrate them, or underrate them all the time, based on one moment, or some silly notion. Kelly was a terrific QB, one of the elite from his era. How can you argue that he isn't a first ballot HOF'er? The way these guys are remembered is all kind of tied togehter. I just think, as time passes, people forget just how great Kelly was. Not flawless, but for 4 or 5 seasons, you could have made a credible argument that he was one of the four best QB's in the NFL...just like Thurman amongst RB's.

 

To the OP's point...I agree, this is not a super exciting HOF class.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Buftex

[CardinalScotts]

I've brought this up here before, Curtis Martin absolutely no doubt. Kennedy ? No way the guy played 9 years 4-5 of those nine he was really really good. Honestly he's not much better than Michael Dean Perry, give Perry Rufus Porter and Michael Sinclair to play with. Perry made 6 pro bowls I guess make room. These were terrible offensive teams in Seattle for virtually his entire career one winning record at 9-7. These were the Rick Mirer, Stan Gelbaugh days the defense played quite a bit. Tom Flores, Dennis Erickson days- again for a 4-5 year stretch "Tez" was a tremendous player but not a hall of fame player he must of been a great guy for the writers to go to. Like Ron Santo with the Baseball Hall of Fame no no no oh he died okay he's in. Hall of very good

[dollars 2 donuts]

Hall of Fame Committe cut the crap with the, "they cancel each other out" garbage...put all three: Carter, Brown and Reed in next year and be done with this nonesense.

 

To the OP, yes, I do think it is a weak class.

[CardinalScotts]

The fact that Cris Carter isn't in the hall of fame yet is a complete and utter joke. With MLB, you know what a hall of famer is and isn't, but with the NFL, they are so incredibly inconsistent with respect to who gets in and who doesn't. Cortez Kennedy before Cris Carter? What? Curtis Martin is like a Bert Blyleven- a guy who was fortunate to stay healthy and play long enough to compile impressive stats, but not someone who would necessarily strike fear into their opponents. I firmly believe Carter is the second best modern-era WR of all-time. My top 5: 1. Rice, 2. Carter, 3. Largent, 4. Harrison, 5. Moss/Owens.

 

Also: Jim Kelly was a first-ballot HOF'er and Thurman Thomas was a second-ballot HOF'er. Those should've been reversed.

 

You might want to do a little more research on Curtis Martin, your off the mark. Carter is the product of Denny Green throwing on every down. Here is a nice stat Kelly averaged 434 pass attempts a year, never going over 480. In Denny Green's run as Viking coach they never threw under 500 several season over 600 usually 560-590 from Cunningham to Brad Johnson to Warren Moon to Culpepper indoors. Their careers aren't caparable Reed was a much better receiver with great numbers with limited chances playing with a hall of fame running back, something else no one thinks about there is only one football.

[GOBILLS78]

I'm sorry, but if Thurman is in, Curtis Martin is in. Martin was the model of consistency. Always brought it and was an absolute stud. If you don't think Martin should be in, that's fine, but you'd have to take Thurman out too. Look at the numbers.

[metzelaars_lives]

Now, why can't they both be first ballot HOF'ers?

 

Kelly (and I suppose Thurman and A Reed too) seem to have people (Bills fans) overrate them, or underrate them all the time, based on one moment, or some silly notion. Kelly was a terrific QB, one of the elite from his era. How can you argue that he isn't a first ballot HOF'er? The way these guys are remembered is all kind of tied togehter. I just think, as time passes, people forget just how great Kelly was. Not flawless, but for 4 or 5 seasons, you could have made a credible argument that he was one of the four best QB's in the NFL...just like Thurman amongst RB's.

 

To the OP's point...I agree, this is not a super exciting HOF class.

 

Thurman Thomas is a significantly greater all-time RB than Jim Kelly is an all-time QB, period end of story. You say people forget how good Kelly was- I say that statement applies a lot more to Thurman. He led the league in all-purpose yardage 3 YEARS IN A ROW (not to mention he owns an NFL MVP). Jim Kelly does not own any statistic that jumps off the page like that. Now being Bills fans, we understand Kelly's value as the true leader of that team and get caught up in his mystique, his commitment to Buffalo and keeping the Bills in Buffalo, etc. (as do I). But being as objective as humanly possible, you have to look at the numbers and the numbers do not lie. We can agree to disagree, but I think Thurman deserved to be a first-ballot guy and Kelly a 2nd.

 

I'm sorry, but if Thurman is in, Curtis Martin is in. Martin was the model of consistency. Always brought it and was an absolute stud. If you don't think Martin should be in, that's fine, but you'd have to take Thurman out too. Look at the numbers.

 

I will stand behind what I said. There is no doubt Curtis Martin is a HOF'er, probably deserved of being first-ballot. However, never for one second in his career did he strike fear into his opponents the way Thurman did in his prime.

Edited August 2, 2012 by metzelaars_lives

[billsfan89]

I have stopped giving the NFL Hall of Fame legitimacy a long time ago. When a guy like Cris Carter has a hard time getting in because he never won a Super Bowl (Haven't seen any other explanation) proves to me how suspect the selection process is. Andre I can see being on the borderline but Cris Carter and Tim Brown having a hard time getting in? Come on.

[Mark Vader]

Answer to the initial question: yes, this is a weak class.

 

I think Curtis Martin is worthy, but not Cortez Kennedy. I also question Chris Doleman getting in. Was he really that good? Dermontti Dawson & Willie Roaf I can accept, but they could have waited longer.

 

Andre Reed & Tim Brown were outstanding WR's and often carried the load for their teams. They should be in.

 

Cris Carter I think is a bit overrated, so he can wait.

 

Aeneas Williams definitely should be in the Hall of Fame. He was a better CB than Deion Sanders, IMO. Ask Michael Irvin what it was like to go up against Williams.

 

Paul Tagliabue. How in the world is this man not in the Hall of Fame?

[dwight in philly]

i was thinking the same thing while glancing at the list. curtis martin?, hardly, cortez kennedy? decent, but not HOF material,same with doleman, strikes me as average. i think biscuit should go in if doleman does.

[CardinalScotts]

bills fan 89 did you not see the post I had on Cris Carter pretty much explains why he's not in

[NoSaint]

martins resume is A LOT better than most people realize. just because he wasnt on espn every week didnt mean he wasnt having tremendous games. further - durability is a huge plus for a back. he had to be one of the most dependable backs for a decade. i know some of these are repetative that i copied and pasted below - but the guy was a 5 time all pro, he rushed for 1700 yards at 31 years old, and 1500 yards at like 22. think about the beating he took over the course of his career. very few guys are that successful as a rookie, and a workhorse for 10 years and able to have their best season in their 30s still. To have 10 straight years over 1,000 yards is amazing. heck, he was 6 yards away from 10 straight seasons over 1100. and all this is not to mention his near 500 receptions

 

he has a rushing title to his name, rookie of the year, on two different teams all decade teams. a running back with all pro honors near a decade apart, with numerous in between is a special feat. plus, you know, the 4th leading rusher of all time. 90 tds scored including 4 seasons in double digits, over 600 points scored. 850+ first downs

 

 

NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year (1995)

PFWA Offensive Rookie of the Year (1995)

5× Pro Bowl (1995, 1996, 1998, 2001, 2004)

5× All-Pro (1995, 1996, 1999, 2001, 2004)

Super Bowl XXXI appearance (1996)

Ed Block Courage Award (2001)

NFL Rushing champion (2004)

NFL Alumni Running Back of the Year (2004)

FedEx Ground Player of the Year Award (2004)

Bart Starr Man of the Year Award (2005)

New York Jets All-Time Leading Rusher (10,302 yards)

Led NFL in rushing yards in 2004 with 1,697

Oldest player to win a rushing title in NFL history (age 31)

10,000 Rushing Yards Club

Fourth-leading rusher of All-Time

New England Patriots All-1990s Team

New York Jets All-Time Four Decade Team

New York Jets Ring of Honor

 

obviously emmitt smith takes the cake for this span with durability and performance but when you start stacking up those numbers.... its amazing what he really accomplished. he may not have been the type to house the ball on any touch, but he ground it out for a decade straight putting up really good numbers.

Edited August 2, 2012 by NoSaint

[Ronin]

... but there are many players who have played similar to him that are not in the hall.

 

Such as?

 

Let's start there and qualify your comments and go from there.

[Stealth]

Curtis Martin is a hall of fame player. 8th all time in yards from scrimmage. 4th in rushing yards. 11th in rushing yards per game. 19th in rush/rec td.s 12th all time in career rushing tds. Was he the flashiest guy of course not, but the guy was a workhorse and as good of an all around back that's come into the game.