PromoTheRobot Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Aha! SJBF Rule #2! You rascal, you know good and well why it comes to mind. Yep, you're right, arguing is enjoyable when the person you're arguing with has good points in defense of opinions you disagree with, and can acknowledge valid points you make and offer a reasoned rebuttal. When they don't and they can't, it gets old real fast. Laters! Yep, in 2010 and Drew Brees was right behind him. In 2009 it was Jay Cutler. INTs per se don't seem to be a reason to lose trust in a QB. They beg the question "why all the INTs, and is it something that can be fixed?" Having to score 40 pts just to stay in the game might be a factor. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintmyhouse Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Having to score 40 pts just to stay in the game might be a factor. PTR League leader in INTs, the worst team in 3 and outs on offense, and towards the very bottom in 3rd down conversions had nothing at all to do with that. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 League leader in INTs, the worst team in 3 and outs on offense, and towards the very bottom in 3rd down conversions had nothing at all to do with that. Got it. How does 3rd down efficiency and 3-and-outs relate to interception %? If the Bills go 3-and-out they do not turn the ball over. We get it. You hate Fitz. Better find a new team to follow when they cut your boyfriend Vince Young. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintmyhouse Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 How does 3rd down efficiency and 3-and-outs relate to interception %? If the Bills go 3-and-out they do not turn the ball over. We get it. You hate Fitz. Better find a new team to follow when they cut your boyfriend Vince Young. PTR You keep saying it is hard to compete when the other team scores 40 points. The Bills offense is constantly giving the ball back to the other team, sorry if I spoke over your head. Seriously, how can you not relate interceptions and 3 and outs together? They are both giving the ball back to the other team. Wow. Preschool football lesson there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I can't believe Fitzpatrick broke Fred Jackson's leg last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toshiero Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Great article I love TSN because they cover the bills more then ESPN http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/story/?id=402002 Eric Wood is quoted saying they wouldn't trade him for anyone... Or as coach Chan Gailey says: "He can win championships." From the ability to take a big hit and play hurt, as Fitzpatrick did last season, or accepting pressure and blame...More proof he played injured last year in case there is any more doubters.... I know theres plenty of Fitz doubters but normally this team doesn't speak this highly of a player unless they truly think they are capable. I do believe he can do the job after watching him in Cincy I thought he had all the ability to lead a team to victory and proves he isn't afraid to take the blame or bear the weight of a loss on his shoulders. Win. I don't care about talk, I don't care that they trust him blah blah blah. It is time to prove it on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) You keep saying it is hard to compete when the other team scores 40 points. The Bills offense is constantly giving the ball back to the other team, sorry if I spoke over your head. Seriously, how can you not relate interceptions and 3 and outs together? They are both giving the ball back to the other team. Wow. Preschool football lesson there. right. of the 434 points the Bills allowed last year, which was the second most in team history, 78 came directly off Fitzpatrick's 23 interceptions. so that's about a field-goal per turnover. there's no doubt the three interceptions in the 30-23 loss to Miami were costly. Bills were already down 28-7 to Dallas when Fitz threw his first pick, so what's exactly your point here? the Bills allowed 27.1 points a game last season. take away the 78 points and they allowed 22 points a game last year. three-plus touchdowns is still a lot, so i'm not entirely sure where you're headed here, though i'm sure you'll find a way to come up with some "yeah, but ..." retort. so, picking up where i left off in getting you up to speed on the basics of football. now where was i? oh yes, kickoffs. now the team that wins the coin toss (i mentioned that earlier) gets to decide whether it will receive the kickoff. the team losing the coin toss, gets to decide in which direction it will kick. so, after a commercial break, 11 players line up at one end of the field, and a collection of 11 players line up facing them in an assortment of positions, with the fastest players way, way in the back near the end zone. that's right e-n-d z-o-n-e. that's where the goal posts are, and where teams usually paint their name or logo. jw Edited August 2, 2012 by john wawrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Aha! SJBF Rule #2! You rascal, you know good and well why it comes to mind. Yep, you're right, arguing is enjoyable when the person you're arguing with has good points in defense of opinions you disagree with, and can acknowledge valid points you make and offer a reasoned rebuttal. When they don't and they can't, it gets old real fast. Laters! Yep, in 2010 and Drew Brees was right behind him. In 2009 it was Jay Cutler. INTs per se don't seem to be a reason to lose trust in a QB. They beg the question "why all the INTs, and is it something that can be fixed?" That's because all INTs are not created equally. Coaches understand this. It's all about WHEN and WHERE a QB throws INTs. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 How does 3rd down efficiency and 3-and-outs relate to interception %? If the Bills go 3-and-out they do not turn the ball over. We get it. You hate Fitz. Better find a new team to follow when they cut your boyfriend Vince Young. PTR I know you get that I'm inefficient offense puts the defense in bad spots and helps create the come from behind issue you site. Not a huge primary cause, but a factor. Really the discussion about his arm and decision making is that he's good enough to get by but inconsistent enough to put you in some bad spots. A lot of guys in the same boat which finds him squarely in the middle of the pack (which is ok!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 There's an awful lot of trust to being given to a QB who threw more INT's than anyone else in the league last year. THE LEAGUE. -But whatever. For the time being, Fitz is all we've got. I can accept that, and I'm anxious to see how Gailey "the guru" maneuvers this offense around a QB who, after nearly a decade of pro ball, is finally learning the correct way to throw a pass. IMHO, internal pressure will be the key to anything good that happens with Fitz this year. I feel that Thigpen should have been cut already, and V. Young placed directly behind Fitz as the undisputed backup. Brad Smith should remain as our 3rd string, and/or wildcat guy. Sure, I have my doubts about Vince Young. However the more I confront these doubts, the more I realize that they have NOTHING to do with anything Vince has ever done on the field. Vince can throw. Vince can run. Vince can win. Vince has problems reading a defense occaisionally, and Vince has deep issues within himself that need resolutions. But Vince can play. Fitzo would do well to keep that fact in mind. -All the time. Kinda nice to know that if our beloved starter's ribs start aching again, there's a viable option at backup that can, at the very worst, move the chains, and improvise an ugly win. That's all I really need. I could give two s___ts about Fitz's wonderlic, or Chan's complicated offensive schemes. All I want is for us to be ultra-competitive in our division, and for us to win games. If that means "dumbing down" the offense for a non-harvard grad, then I'm totally ok with it. Let's play football. GOOOOOOO BILLLSSS! The Bills passing game is all about quick release, often to a spot. That means putting the ball into tight spots and trusting the receiver to be where he's supposed to be. It is a high risk scheme that gets riskier when playing from behind in desperation, and when receivers who are less experienced in the scheme are forced into the lineup. That's precisely what happened in the second half of last season when Fitz's INTs soared. The improvement on the defense side should mean the opponent not only scores fewer points, but also has a lower time of possession. And maybe more turnovers. That should mean the offense won't be playing from deeply behind, and won't have to rely so heavily on the passing game to catch up which gives the opponent's D a huge advantage. If so, then we should rightly expect Fitz to be much improved in '12. Your paean to VY notwithstanding, my biggest concern right now is the backup QB slot. If Fitz gets injured again, all bets are off because I don't for a minute see Young or Thigpen as viable replacements for more than a couple of series of downs. I suspect Buddy is watching the waiver wire closely and I wouldn't be shocked to even see him make a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I can't believe Fitzpatrick didn't sack the opposing team's QB more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripoid Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Fitz NFL MVP 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I can't believe Fitzpatrick didn't sack the opposing team's QB more. yep, yet another flaw. useless on special teams, too. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I can't believe Fitzpatrick didn't sack the opposing team's QB more. I can't believe Fitz dropped that pass in full stride at the 30 quite possibly for the winning TD against the Jets. It hit him in the hands for crying out loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 yep, yet another flaw. useless on special teams, too. jw Fitz has failed to bring in the requisite razor and shaving cream product endorsements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) Thank you for the clear answer to my question. My point is, I think they should. That they don't, demonstrates questionable football acumen. And let's get this straight - Fitz doesn't have to "dispatch" VY. Fitz is the starter. It's his job to lose. Very poor (but revealing) choice of words. Looks like I'm busted. Thank you for that (revealing) look into my questionable soul. -A thousand pardons for my lack of acumen. I tried sprinkling a little on my pork chops last night when the darn bottle popped open! -Spoiled my supper. But moving right along... As, frankly, does this. There is a big difference between "being made starter" and "starting a game as the backup QB when the starter gets hurt". The latter is what Fitz did with the Rams and Cincy. The Bills are Fitz' first gig as starter. This is an overwhelmingly common usage of the word "starter" and constitutes "Football 101" level understanding. There are some on this board who think football 101 is what this franchise NEEDS to be getting back to. You know... converting third downs with some regularity, and NOT throwing the football to the wrong guy. -Stuff us short-bus kids have struggled with mightily for the past, I dunno... twelve years or so. But your'e right asbout my misuse of the word "Starter" What I meant was: Had a chance to snag a starting job twice before and never got it done. OR, had a chance to become more than a career backup, and instead, shrunk back into obscurity. And off we go... Probowls are currently a popularity contest. Winning teams tend to have more players selected. Losing teams tend to have fewer players selected. And winning or losing are team stats. This is also "Football 101" level understanding. No one (but perhaps you?) touts "game winning drives" as a realistic overall measure of QB play for the simple fact that if the QB plays well from the start of the game and the D is good enough to get the stop, there is no need for them. It's simply silly to be concerned about "game winning drives" but not completion percentage or number of yards. Dangit, Your'e right again. -I've got it... Why don't we just discard every meaningful stat in the game of football until Ryan Fitzpatrick gets his training wheels off. ESPECIALLY those silly game-winning drives. It's not like the ability of a quarterback to impose his will on an opposing defense in the final moments of a tight game has anything to do with whether or not his team wins out. That junk is SO football 101! You continue to advance "cherry picked" positives whilst now explicitly stating you have no concern over indicators that are red flags for consistency. You even bring up college championships!!!! which have a long history of not necessarily translating to the NFL. You can't even acknowledge the point that the "hot lights" aren't a reasonable measure of who's best, because equal chances to perform under the "hot lights" are not afforded. Someone is picked as the starter, and everyone else gets their chance only if "bad stuff" goes down and that "bad stuff" involves the QB. Agreed. Life is SO frickin' unfair. There should be a controlled, closely monitored grooming period for all rookie QB's. The duration of which, to be determined by their IQ's, wonderlic scores, and beard length. Players who shine when given a small opportunity, should be detained and quarantined for closer observation. Oh, -and let's finally put an end to all this "bad stuff" happening. The capital letters suggest that you're emphatically responding to something I imputed to you. That simply isn't so. To claim you're "simply mentioning a few reasons not to completely count him out" in my opinion completely misrepresents the tenor of your posts. You're strongly implying that VY is providing serious competition for Fitz ("my belief that more competition could be benficial for Fitzpatick's game") and that fans should consider whether he might be the best product and they would support him as starter (asking "whether or not you would support this franchise putting it's best product on the field. Especially if that product turns out to be V. Young....It's a possibility we could all be confronting in the near future. -Might be a good idea to know where you stand in advance"). Yah, I said it. -So What? I want the competiton to come from somewhere. -The question is, Why don't you? Why do you consider competition for Fitz such a heretical notion? Might Mr. "hopeful" be a little bit "fearful" To be honest, I have no choice but to respect your football acumen. I apologize for not having the statistical chops to deal with that big, fat, football encyclopedia between your ears. It's a fact that I hope to remedy very shortly. I'm obviously outmatched. However, I will say this: All those years you've spent in various NFL coaching and front office positions have not yet immunized you from the common denial bug when it comes to Ryan Fitzpatrick. I'll leave the accurate characterization of this wording for anyone else still reading, but "simply mentioned a few reasons not to completely count VY out" doesn't seem descriptive. I think I'm outta here. You get the last shot. I'm not trying to dis on VY here. His talent is undisputed and I hope he masters our offense and is there to help the team if Fitz gets hurt. But I argue when the discussion is good and thought provoking and I'm enjoying it, and quite frankly, both the level of football savvy you're displaying in your choice of arguments, and the "frameshifting" of your position, are not what I enjoy. Laters! That's fine. Take your ball and go home. Sooner or later you always have to return to the playground. I'm bushed. -Dragging my knuckles on the ground all day makes the joints tender. Clearly, you're light years ahead. Still, I'll take my football 101 ANY DAY over your four and twelve, six and ten, NO playoffs, honors course. Me go now. Edited August 5, 2012 by #34fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdragon2 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I read until page two. I stopped reading. In those two pages I have discovered the following: There is a ridiculous amount of man-love for Vince Young. I honestly don't care about the numbers. Fitzpatrick earned his spot and oppurtunity. Vince Young is a distraction, and by all reports one that isn't even performing significantly better then thigpen. There is no reason for the sheer amount of "rooster inhaling" he is getting from some people. There is a large amount of people who are either too unaware, or immature, to acknowledge exactly what it's like to break a rib. Let me enlighten you: Every...single...movement...feels like your suffocating yourself. You cannot draw air in correctly, you cannot move without being in pain. So compound that with having to go out and throw a freaking football all day, AND getting sacked...I'd say the guy has earned it multiple times over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I read until page two. I stopped reading. In those two pages I have discovered the following: There is a ridiculous amount of man-love for Vince Young. I honestly don't care about the numbers. Fitzpatrick earned his spot and oppurtunity. Vince Young is a distraction, and by all reports one that isn't even performing significantly better then thigpen. There is no reason for the sheer amount of "rooster inhaling" he is getting from some people. There is a large amount of people who are either too unaware, or immature, to acknowledge exactly what it's like to break a rib. Let me enlighten you: Every...single...movement...feels like your suffocating yourself. You cannot draw air in correctly, you cannot move without being in pain. So compound that with having to go out and throw a freaking football all day, AND getting sacked...I'd say the guy has earned it multiple times over. Wanting to throw a a guy to the wolves hardly counts as man-love. Ideally, I'd like Thigpen out of the picture, so Fitz and Young can go head to head in pre-season. It's simple for Vince Young... if he blows, he goes. If VY looks like he can't push Fitz, or come in and finish games for us, Then pay him and get him on the fastest thing OUT of Buffalo. -I'll buy the ticket. It sounds cheesy but no "Pressure, no Diamond" applies here. Broken ribs or not, Fitzo is not entititled to a free ride through TC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Wanting to throw a a guy to the wolves hardly counts as man-love. Ideally, I'd like Thigpen out of the picture, so Fitz and Young can go head to head in pre-season. It's simple for Vince Young... if he blows, he goes. If VY looks like he can't push Fitz, or come in and finish games for us, Then pay him and get him on the fastest thing OUT of Buffalo. -I'll buy the ticket. It sounds cheesy but no "Pressure, no Diamond" applies here. Broken ribs or not, Fitzo is not entititled to a free ride through TC. 34 so even though at this point VY isn't even showing that he can and is out playing Thigpen at practice during TC, what you want is him to get even reps with a guy who has earned and the starting spot, the respect of team mates and opposing players and couches and had the best 2 seasons of anybody we have had here since Blesdoe. Because he had some good seasons a few years ago? Yeah makes perfect sense. Fitzpatrick actually had a quality 20-game stretch as the Bills' starter, counting those seven games and the 13 he started in 2010. Over that stretch, he had 37 TD passes and 22 interceptions, and threw for 237 yards a game. He has earned the 1# reps and knowing he will be starter this year, I am just glad you are not in Chan's job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 It is when Tyler Thigpen is your team's plan B. I'll take, "Things That Don't Concern Me At All" for 500, Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts