GoBills! Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Great article I love TSN because they cover the bills more then ESPN http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/story/?id=402002 Eric Wood is quoted saying they wouldn't trade him for anyone... Or as coach Chan Gailey says: "He can win championships." From the ability to take a big hit and play hurt, as Fitzpatrick did last season, or accepting pressure and blame...More proof he played injured last year in case there is any more doubters.... I know theres plenty of Fitz doubters but normally this team doesn't speak this highly of a player unless they truly think they are capable. I do believe he can do the job after watching him in Cincy I thought he had all the ability to lead a team to victory and proves he isn't afraid to take the blame or bear the weight of a loss on his shoulders.
NoSaint Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 I like fitz a lot but is playing hurt really an attribute if your not doing it well?
DC Tom Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 The thing that impresses me most about articles like this isn't what they say about the individual player, it's what they say about the team. This team simply talks about each other with a quite confidence and complete lack of bluster that's completely unlike a 6-10 team.
Shoutbox Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 I like fitz a lot but is playing hurt really an attribute if your not doing it well? It is when Tyler Thigpen is your team's plan B.
NoSaint Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 It is when Tyler Thigpen is your team's plan B. I get it - I also wouldn't call it a strength, as admirable as it may be. Atleast that given injury. We have seen fitz play through injury, but I don't know if we have seen him perform despite injury. That of course blurred by all the others going down, and coupled with his usual up and down nature making it hard to peg what he brings. I just wouldn't call playing through pain a strength yet if in the same paragraph we can chalk it up to why we fell off the cliff (atleast partially).
Kiwi Bills fan Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 I like fitz a lot but is playing hurt really an attribute if your not doing it well? I was thinking the exact same thing. Fitz has my full support this year, but why is playing very poorly while hurt such a good thing? He needs to prove that he can make all of the throws with accuracy and lead the team on to victory, not take a sack and play like crap for the remainder of the season.
Delete This Account Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Great article I love TSN because they cover the bills more then ESPN http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/story/?id=402002 ummmm, that might well be on the TSN site, but ... jw
swnybillsfan Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 The thing that impresses me most about articles like this isn't what they say about the individual player, it's what they say about the team. This team simply talks about each other with a quite confidence and complete lack of bluster that's completely unlike a 6-10 team. [/quo i really enjoy these stories that let you know what kind of person the player is and what the team thinks about him. it's been well documented around here that fitz may not have those most physical gifts of all the qb's in the nfl, but it sure sounds like his teammates are going to play their @$$es off for him!
K-9 Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 ummmm, that might well be on the TSN site, but ... jw Why don't TSN and other outlets give attribution to the author as well as news organization? GO BILLS!!!
Delete This Account Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Why don't TSN and other outlets give attribution to the author as well as news organization? GO BILLS!!! there is a very large ASSOCIATED PRESS tag right under the headline, which might be a bit of a giveaway ... that said, each of our subscribers rightfully has the choice on whether to include bylines, or format the stories in any way they choose. so long as the AP's credited, that's fine with me. jw
#34fan Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 There's an awful lot of trust to being given to a QB who threw more INT's than anyone else in the league last year. THE LEAGUE. -But whatever. For the time being, Fitz is all we've got. I can accept that, and I'm anxious to see how Gailey "the guru" maneuvers this offense around a QB who, after nearly a decade of pro ball, is finally learning the correct way to throw a pass. IMHO, internal pressure will be the key to anything good that happens with Fitz this year. I feel that Thigpen should have been cut already, and V. Young placed directly behind Fitz as the undisputed backup. Brad Smith should remain as our 3rd string, and/or wildcat guy. Sure, I have my doubts about Vince Young. However the more I confront these doubts, the more I realize that they have NOTHING to do with anything Vince has ever done on the field. Vince can throw. Vince can run. Vince can win. Vince has problems reading a defense occaisionally, and Vince has deep issues within himself that need resolutions. But Vince can play. Fitzo would do well to keep that fact in mind. -All the time. Kinda nice to know that if our beloved starter's ribs start aching again, there's a viable option at backup that can, at the very worst, move the chains, and improvise an ugly win. That's all I really need. I could give two s___ts about Fitz's wonderlic, or Chan's complicated offensive schemes. All I want is for us to be ultra-competitive in our division, and for us to win games. If that means "dumbing down" the offense for a non-harvard grad, then I'm totally ok with it. Let's play football. GOOOOOOO BILLLSSS!
reddogblitz Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) There's an awful lot of trust to being given to a QB who threw more INT's than anyone else in the league last year. THE LEAGUE. -But whatever. Maybe. But is it too much to put in the guy that was in the top 1/3 of the league in yards, completion %, fewest sacks, passes over 20 yards, and TDs? I believe that Fitz is a winner and leader. I've liked him ever since he came in that Jets game for Trent and got us a win. Then in the Fish game at the Ralph in 2009 when we were down by 10 or so late and we came back to win. He did bring us back to what should have been a win vs defending AFC Champs Steelers only to have someone drop a pass in the EZ in his bread basket in OT. Even in the Giants game that he stunk, it was tied until the Defense gave up a drive giving NY the go ahead FG. He put us in position to win vs the Jets only to have a player drop a possible (worst case 1st and goal on the 10) TD that hit him in the hands. He was manning the controls on 2 big comeback wins this year vs the Raiders and the Patsies. That's why they believe in him. But if you just want to concentrate on INT #, go ahead. Edited August 1, 2012 by reddogblitz
Delete This Account Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) There's an awful lot of trust to being given to a QB who threw more INT's than anyone else in the league last year. THE LEAGUE. -But whatever. For the time being, Fitz is all we've got. I can accept that, and I'm anxious to see how Gailey "the guru" maneuvers this offense around a QB who, after nearly a decade of pro ball, is finally learning the correct way to throw a pass. IMHO, internal pressure will be the key to anything good that happens with Fitz this year. I feel that Thigpen should have been cut already, and V. Young placed directly behind Fitz as the undisputed backup. Brad Smith should remain as our 3rd string, and/or wildcat guy. Sure, I have my doubts about Vince Young. However the more I confront these doubts, the more I realize that they have NOTHING to do with anything Vince has ever done on the field. Vince can throw. Vince can run. Vince can win. Vince has problems reading a defense occaisionally, and Vince has deep issues within himself that need resolutions. But Vince can play. Fitzo would do well to keep that fact in mind. -All the time. Kinda nice to know that if our beloved starter's ribs start aching again, there's a viable option at backup that can, at the very worst, move the chains, and improvise an ugly win. That's all I really need. I could give two s___ts about Fitz's wonderlic, or Chan's complicated offensive schemes. All I want is for us to be ultra-competitive in our division, and for us to win games. If that means "dumbing down" the offense for a non-harvard grad, then I'm totally ok with it. Let's play football. GOOOOOOO BILLLSSS! i think you meant you "couldn't" give two s__ts about Fitz's wonderlic, because saying "you could" means that you actually do give two s__ts about it, which i think kind of contradicts what i think might be your point here. but then you're all for "dumbing down" things, so i'm quite confused as to whether you could give two s__ts or not, and how intimidating this wonderlic just might be. jw Edited August 1, 2012 by john wawrow
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Sure, I have my doubts about Vince Young. However the more I confront these doubts, the more I realize that they have NOTHING to do with anything Vince has ever done on the field. Vince can throw. Vince can run. Vince can win. Vince has problems reading a defense occaisionally, and Vince has deep issues within himself that need resolutions. But Vince can play. Things Vince Young has done on the field that ought to give you pause: -Throw 4 TD and 9 INTs last year out of only 114 passes in 3 games. In case we need to do the math, that's an average of 3 INTs a game and 7.8% INT percentage. Now I'm not too stressed out by Fitz's INTs last year. Eli Manning and Brees led the league the last 2 years and they got it together. Fitz isn't Eli Manning or Brees, the point is a bad year for INTs doesn't mark a guy for life. But if you're worried about Fitz' 23 (4%) INTs, shouldn't a number that projects out to 48 INTS (using INTs/game) or 44 INTs (using INT percentage and assuming Young throws as many passes as Fitz did last year) be a little concerning with you? -lifetime completion percentage of <58%. Last year was in line: 57.9%. I'm not saying it's you, but there are people here who stress about Fitz's 62% completion and 59% lifetime, so shouldn't throwing fewer completions than Fitzpatrick be a concern with regard to something Vince Young has done on the field? -Number of passes per game. In 61 games, Young has thrown an average of 21 passes per game (1304 attempts in 61 games). In a pass-centric league, isn't that something he's done (or not done) on the field that should be of concern? (A typical game where the offense is going well has about 60 offensive plays. A run-centric attack would be about 45% pass, 27-28 plays per game. For comparison, Fitz averages 30 passes per game over his career.) -Chan asserts that neither Young nor Thigpen has distinguished himself as the #2. Presumably he bases this upon what he's seen on the football field at OTAs and training camp. People who have watched have said Young > Thigpen but neither looks good. Perhaps Chan's viewpoint and what's seen at camp is something done on a football field that should concern you? I'm not concerned about Vince's "deep issues" and whether or not they exist or need resolution. That's his bidness, and as long as he comports himself as a model NFL citizen (which he's done) my view is everyone deserves a chance to grow up. I also hope that he "grows up" as a football player and becomes a very quality player for us. I just don't understand the lack of concern about what Young's done on a football field 'cuz it may be exciting at times but it ain't all pretty and a lot of the Titans winning looks like strong D and CJ2K to me. I forgot who said it, SJBF maybe or NoSaint? Someone pointed out to me that the aura of being a top draft choice lingers, and earns much benefit of the doubt/favorable viewpoint which is not granted to lower-round guys. McCoy on his way out of Cleveland where Bradford, with similar stats, gets a pass and so forth. Edited August 1, 2012 by Hopeful
#34fan Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Maybe. But is it too much to put in the guy that was in the top 1/3 of the league in yards, completion %, fewest sacks, passes over 20 yards, and TDs? I believe that Fitz is a winner and leader. I've liked him ever since he came in that Jets game for Trent and got us a win. Then in the Fish game at the Ralph in 2009 when we were down by 10 or so late and we came back to win. He did bring us back to what should have been a win vs defending AFC Champs Steelers only to have someone drop a pass in the EZ in his bread basket in OT. Even in the Giants game that he stunk, it was tied until the Defense gave up a drive giving NY the go ahead FG. He put us in position to win vs the Jets only to have a player drop a possible (worst case 1st and goal on the 10) TD that hit him in the hands. He was manning the controls on 2 big comeback wins this year vs the Raiders and the Patsies. That's why they believe in him. But if you just want to concentrate on INT #, go ahead. Wait. You've liked him ever since he came in for TRENT??? -That's a pretty low bar, don't you think? Fitz got lucky. In fact, if Trent was a little less Awful, you and I aren't even having this conversation. I'll conceed that Fitz played OK in a couple games last year. -Pretty good in the first game at KC. But whether it was the INT's, short passes, or high passes, he simply did not show up to lead during that eight game slide. What became clear to me, was that that in order for Fitz to have any success, our o-line has to remain in tact, and Freddy has to stay healthy. Btw, I'm calling out Coach Gailey too. IMO, Last year's offense was geared more toward the QB Chan WISHES he had, instead of the guy we actually have. I'd like to see Scott Chandler (as well as our other TE'S) get more involved in the offense, and avoid dependency on the deep ball. Oh, and INT's are more that just a stat. They are a rich source of team demoralization, fan rage, and QB inconfidence. INT's change the entire course and momentum of games. They are to be avoided like plague animals. IMO, QB's who throw them in bunches either aren't in sync with their offense, or struggle with the mechanics of throwing a football. Whichever category Fitz falls into, he's been given a another shot to get it together. If he can't make it happen, then Chan has to have the courage to go another way. Edited August 1, 2012 by #34fan
#34fan Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Things Vince Young has done on the field that ought to give you pause: -Throw 4 TD and 9 INTs last year out of only 114 passes in 3 games. In case we need to do the math, that's an average of 3 INTs a game and 7.8% INT percentage. Now I'm not too stressed out by Fitz's INTs last year. Eli Manning and Brees led the league the last 2 years and they got it together. Fitz isn't Eli Manning or Brees, the point is a bad year for INTs doesn't mark a guy for life. But if you're worried about Fitz' 23 (4%) INTs, shouldn't a number that projects out to 48 INTS (using INTs/game) or 44 INTs (using INT percentage and assuming Young throws as many passes as Fitz did last year) be a little concerning with you? -lifetime completion percentage of <58%. Last year was in line: 57.9%. I'm not saying it's you, but there are people here who stress about Fitz's 62% completion and 59% lifetime, so shouldn't throwing fewer completions than Fitzpatrick be a concern with regard to something Vince Young has done on the field? -Number of passes per game. In 61 games, Young has thrown an average of 21 passes per game (1304 attempts in 61 games). In a pass-centric league, isn't that something he's done (or not done) on the field that should be of concern? (A typical game where the offense is going well has about 60 offensive plays. A run-centric attack would be about 45% pass, 27-28 plays per game. For comparison, Fitz averages 30 passes per game over his career.) -Chan asserts that neither Young nor Thigpen has distinguished himself as the #2. Presumably he bases this upon what he's seen on the football field at OTAs and training camp. People who have watched have said Young > Thigpen but neither looks good. Perhaps Chan's viewpoint and what's seen at camp is something done on a football field that should concern you? Vince's first start after a year of not playing at all was a win vs. NYG. He was a BACKUP on a NEW team, coming off a rough emotional experience and thrust into game against a tough divisional rival. Vince delivered. With Vince at the helm, Philly converted SIX third downs on ONE drive. Two of those, VY rushed for HIMSELF. -Think about that. How cool would it be to have a guy who can wear down defenses by extending drives like that? Of course, the following week the Eagles lost to the Patsies. -But to be fair, so did we. -After a three touchdown lead, I might add. I'm not giving VY a pass at all, but Vince's physical abilities are not what concerns me. -What concerns me about Vince is whether of not he can manifest the mental, and intestinal fortitude to deal with the politics that exist in every franchise FO and Locker room in the NFL. That's the challenge. All I want is for our BEST PRODUCT to make it onto the field. I'll totally accept it if that turns out to be be Ryan Fitzpatrick. -Are you prepared to accept it if it doesn't? Edited August 1, 2012 by #34fan
Toledo Bill Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Vince's first start after a year of not playing at all was a win vs. NYG. He was a BACKUP on a NEW team, coming off a rough emotional experience and thrust into game against a tough divisional rival. Vince delivered. With Vince at the helm, Philly converted SIX third downs on ONE drive. Two of those, VY rushed for HIMSELF. -Think about that. How cool would it be to have a guy who can wear down defenses by extending drives like that? Of course, the following week the Eagles lost to the Patsies. -But to be fair, so did we. -After a three touchdown lead, I might add. I'm not giving VY a pass at all, but Vince's physical abilities are not what concerns me. -What concerns me about Vince is whether of not he can manifest the mental, and intestinal fortitude to deal with the politics that exist in every franchise FO and Locker room in the NFL. That's the challenge. All I want is for our BEST PRODUCT to make it onto the field. I'll totally accept it if that turns out to be be Ryan Fitzpatrick. -Are you prepared to accept it if it doesn't? Politics?? Regarding our quarterback situation? Where do you come up with that?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Vince's first start after a year of not playing at all was a win vs. NYG. He was a BACKUP on a NEW team, coming off a rough emotional experience and thrust into game against a tough divisional rival. Vince delivered. Um, your original statement was that VY has never done anything on the field that gives you pause. I think we all accept that VY has had some very good games and made some memorable plays. The key to being a quality QB in the NFL isn't one game (Fitz has had his "one games" after all) but consistency, Sunday after Sunday Would you care to respond as to why the 4 points I raised don't give you pause about VY, or why they lead you to believe Fitz ought to be looking over his shoulder and we all ought to be looking over his shoulder at VY too?
PearlHowardman Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Wait. You've liked him ever since he came in for TRENT??? -That's a pretty low bar, don't you think? Fitz got lucky. In fact, if Trent was a little less Awful, you and I aren't even having this conversation. I'll conceed that Fitz played OK in a couple games last year. -Pretty good in the first game at KC. But whether it was the INT's, short passes, or high passes, he simply did not show up to lead during that eight game slide. What became clear to me, was that that in order for Fitz to have any success, our o-line has to remain in tact, and Freddy has to stay healthy. Btw, I'm calling out Coach Gailey too. IMO, Last year's offense was geared more toward the QB Chan WISHES he had, instead of the guy we actually have. I'd like to see Scott Chandler (as well as our other TE'S) get more involved in the offense, and avoid dependency on the deep ball. Oh, and INT's are more that just a stat. They are a rich source of team demoralization, fan rage, and QB inconfidence. INT's change the entire course and momentum of games. They are to be avoided like plague animals. IMO, QB's who throw them in bunches either aren't in sync with their offense, or struggle with the mechanics of throwing a football. Whichever category Fitz falls into, he's been given a another shot to get it together. If he can't make it happen, then Chan has to have the courage to go another way. Keep up the good work. You're not the only Bills fan scared to death about the prospect of Ryan Fitzpatrick as the team QB. I just don't see him lasting a full season.
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