/dev/null Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I wouldn't call them a responible world actor but I would call them a rational actor Iran just wants a shiny new toy they can show off to the world. If they're smart, the moment they finish their bomb is the same moment they dismantle it into several pieces, send each piece to a different location. The only time they'll re-assemble the bomb is for a parade. Iran knows Israel has multiple nukes and if they tried to wipe Israel off the map, Israel would hit them back harder. They might even tone down some of their rhetoric once they realize they may be provoking Israel into a first strike. I'm less concerned about Iran wiping Israel off the map than I am about some rogue element within Iran commandeering the device and driving it up to a US Military Base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Iran as a country is equal to what a suicide bomber is to a human. Anyone expecting them to make sense and be practical is naive. Their leaders rejoice in martyrdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) Iran as a country is equal to what a suicide bomber is to a human. Anyone expecting them to make sense and be practical is naive. Their leaders rejoice in martyrdom. Fair enough opinion. I do disagree that they are equal to a suicide bomber of a country though. That is my fundamental disagreement and I think American policy discussion from that starting point will be warped and hurt our decision making. Edited July 30, 2012 by TheNewBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Fair enough opinion. I do disagree that they are equal to a suicide bomber of a country though. That is my fundamental disagreement and I think American policy discussion from that starting point will be warped and hurt our decision making. They are masters of duplicity and not worthy of any trust whatsoever. They need a good come to Yahwew talking to and a promise that if they proceed to build nuclear weapon capability, or try to shut down the Straight of Hormuz, they're going to be visiting their final resting place. Then inform them that all ammunition, bombs, grenades, whatever will be dipped in pig's blood before we send it their way. This is the language they understand. You can't play nice with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 They are masters of duplicity and not worthy of any trust whatsoever. They need a good come to Yahwew talking to and a promise that if they proceed to build nuclear weapon capability, or try to shut down the Straight of Hormuz, they're going to be visiting their final resting place. Then inform them that all ammunition, bombs, grenades, whatever will be dipped in pig's blood before we send it their way. This is the language they understand. You can't play nice with them. Do you really think that kind of language does anything in any situation though? Pretty clear to me that's not the way to go if you actually want a solution. We're going to have to give on our position, and they will on theirs, in order to compromise. The main "gets" we would need would be some assurances that they cooperate and enter the responsible international community...unless we are saying it's worth a war to crush them (which I'm not and I don't think you are either) then there's no point in taking that approach in rhetoric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Iran just wants a shiny new toy they can show off to the world. If they're smart, the moment they finish their bomb is the same moment they dismantle it into several pieces, send each piece to a different location. The only time they'll re-assemble the bomb is for a parade. Iran knows Israel has multiple nukes and if they tried to wipe Israel off the map, Israel would hit them back harder. They might even tone down some of their rhetoric once they realize they may be provoking Israel into a first strike. I'm less concerned about Iran wiping Israel off the map than I am about some rogue element within Iran commandeering the device and driving it up to a US Military Base. The Ayatollahs want the bomb so they can crow about how powerful they are, point to their accomplishments and distract the idiots there from the fact that they're petty dictators. However, I think they know that Allah isn't going to save their asses from the Israelis if they do something stupid. Thankfully, idiots like President Amadingdong don't have any real power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Yeah, in this case somebody else did. The Pentagon probably (almost certainly) has plans for military action against Iran that go back decades and are updated every so often. These plans are probably...well, Bush's fault. Vouchsafe that the Pentagon has plans of attack against EVERY country in the world, they have plans of attack for multiple countries in the event of a nuclear war, for biological and chemical and EVERY somesuch contingency, plans for which to attack first and which to attack last, and from there, on specifically where to attack, with which weapons and how many and with how many forces.... Washington Post Stark contrast to how Jay Carney, WH press secretary, did his best impression of a stone wall the other day. That was an exercise in sheer pedantism. Don't for a minute think that the meaning behind refusing to answer what the White House considers the capital of Israel --- Tel Aviv or Jerusalem? --- went unnoticed among American Jews. This admin has been stand-offish and even hostile to Israel from Hour One. The bleeding heart Left is quick to say "Never Again" in the social studies classroom, and then duck and run when it comes to doing anything about making sure of Never Again when Israel has been under constant attack. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 The Ayatollahs want the bomb so they can crow about how powerful they are, point to their accomplishments and distract the idiots there from the fact that they're petty dictators. However, I think they know that Allah isn't going to save their asses from the Israelis if they do something stupid. Thankfully, idiots like President Amadingdong don't have any real power. Your probably right, but you are definitely right about if they do something stupid towards Israel they will all be visiting with Allah shortly thereafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Do you really think that kind of language does anything in any situation though? Pretty clear to me that's not the way to go if you actually want a solution. We're going to have to give on our position, and they will on theirs, in order to compromise. The main "gets" we would need would be some assurances that they cooperate and enter the responsible international community...unless we are saying it's worth a war to crush them (which I'm not and I don't think you are either) then there's no point in taking that approach in rhetoric. Again, they are masters of duplicity. The only way to deal with them is to make them believe that if they proceed with their nuclear arming, then we will attack them. We don't have to embarrass them in public, but we can certainly let them know that they will not survive. This is the only way they know and will truly respond to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicot Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 They are masters of duplicity and not worthy of any trust whatsoever. They need a good come to Yahwew talking to and a promise that if they proceed to build nuclear weapon capability, or try to shut down the Straight of Hormuz, they're going to be visiting their final resting place. Then inform them that all ammunition, bombs, grenades, whatever will be dipped in pig's blood before we send it their way. This is the language they understand. You can't play nice with them. You seem to have some sort of weird fascination with pig's blood. Do you go to bed at night dreaming about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Iran as a country is equal to what a suicide bomber is to a human. Anyone expecting them to make sense and be practical is naive. Their leaders rejoice in martyrdom. Crazy and suicidal yet home to one of the world's oldest continuous major civilizations, with historical and urban settlements dating back to 4000 BC? Geesh if theyre so incompetent they can't kill themselves in 6000 years of trying why are we bothering with them at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 You seem to have some sort of weird fascination with pig's blood. Do you go to bed at night dreaming about it? That and the pig's fat make nice gravy. http://exposingliberallies.blogspot.com/2009/10/general-pershing-on-terrorism.html "General Pershing on Terrorism Want to defeat terrorism? Our government should try the following approach, via Press Democrat: How to Stop Islamic Terrorists.... It Worked Once in Our History "Just before World War I, there were a number of terrorist attacks on the United States forces in the Philippines by Muslim extremists. In response, General Pershing had 50 terrorists captured and tied to posts for execution. He had his men bring in two pigs and slaughter them in front of the now horrified terrorists. As you know, Muslims detest pork, believing them to be filthy animals, which they refuse to eat, touch nor use the by-products of. To them it is believed that doing so will bar them from paradise and their 72 virgins, dooming them to hell. The soldiers soaked their bullets in the pigs blood and then proceeded to execute 49 of the 50 terrorists by firing squad. Next the soldiers dug a mass grave, dumped in the terrorist corpses and covered them in pigs blood, entrails and body parts. Next, they released the 50th terrorist. For the next 42 years there was not a single Muslim extremist attack anywhere in the world." Crazy and suicidal yet home to one of the world's oldest continuous major civilizations, with historical and urban settlements dating back to 4000 BC? Geesh if theyre so incompetent they can't kill themselves in 6000 years of trying why are we bothering with them at all? From the guy who thinks their threats toward Israel are all just a mis-translation. Yes, they are so advanced that they still stone rape victims for adultery, brand people and cut off limbs for certain offenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Lol if only they didn't have strict gun control laws sounds like the perfect place for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 The question is simple...if Iran is really so insane why is the regime still oporurating? They're either completely off the map, dangerous, and unpridictable or they hold positions against us and others with an ideology we don't share and we're at political odds with them. In one scneario war is probably necessary. In another it would be a disaster. We aren't at war, we haven't been at war, the only thing we can do is follow Israel into one. Israel btw is in the grips of what would be a very "conservative" (not that the term translates) government here in the US. Their own foreign policy strong men dominate all levels of government at the moment. They can and will do what they need to do and we won't sit by and watch them be destroyed...but that said...what are we dealing with here? An insane nation or a hostile towards our interests nation? It think the truth of the matter is that Iran while I personally do not like the regime...is not some evil "must be stoppped" regime. There is clearly room for peace here. And peace may well mean Israel doesn't get to control all aspects of Iran military operations. And if that is what it is, that is what it is. And that's fine by me and should be fine by us as a nation. Seriously...what the !@#$ is that word? Crazy and suicidal yet home to one of the world's oldest continuous major civilizations, with historical and urban settlements dating back to 4000 BC? Geesh if theyre so incompetent they can't kill themselves in 6000 years of trying why are we bothering with them at all? Persian civilization has been all but wiped out at least three times that I can think of (Alexandar, the Muslims, and the Mongols). "Oldest continuous major civilization" is laughably ahistorical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Seriously...what the !@#$ is that word? Persian civilization has been all but wiped out at least three times that I can think of (Alexandar, the Muslims, and the Mongols). "Oldest continuous major civilization" is laughably ahistorical. I type real fast and somehow, IDK why, the spell check no longer works. It's actually going to be a problem this started about 2 days ago. I'll never proof my own posts b/c I'm above that, so without auto catch every homophone, common spelling error, or even just muscle memory gone wrong in my fingers is going to make me out to be a fool. I say this not as an excuse, but to ask if anyone knows why on earth the autocheck would suddenly not work in google chrome/windows 7/whatever the problem is. WTF is going on? The automatic red lines are gone, and now I have to type for myself and this is truly scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicot Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) That and the pig's fat make nice gravy. http://exposingliberallies.blogspot.com/2009/10/general-pershing-on-terrorism.html "General Pershing on Terrorism Want to defeat terrorism? Our government should try the following approach, via Press Democrat: How to Stop Islamic Terrorists.... It Worked Once in Our History "Just before World War I, there were a number of terrorist attacks on the United States forces in the Philippines by Muslim extremists. In response, General Pershing had 50 terrorists captured and tied to posts for execution. He had his men bring in two pigs and slaughter them in front of the now horrified terrorists. As you know, Muslims detest pork, believing them to be filthy animals, which they refuse to eat, touch nor use the by-products of. To them it is believed that doing so will bar them from paradise and their 72 virgins, dooming them to hell. The soldiers soaked their bullets in the pigs blood and then proceeded to execute 49 of the 50 terrorists by firing squad. Next the soldiers dug a mass grave, dumped in the terrorist corpses and covered them in pigs blood, entrails and body parts. Next, they released the 50th terrorist. For the next 42 years there was not a single Muslim extremist attack anywhere in the world." From the guy who thinks their threats toward Israel are all just a mis-translation. Yes, they are so advanced that they still stone rape victims for adultery, brand people and cut off limbs for certain offenses. Even if you believe that garbage what you were proposing was different to that. You were suggesting to coat munitions in pigs blood prior to use (might be difficult for the Israeli's to use such an imaginative tactic). Call me sceptical but I really don't believe that the Iranians are going to run screaming from the battlefield at the prospect of facing bombs or bullets smeared in pigs blood as opposed to the conventional kind that will just blow them to pieces. I'm no Islamic scholar but I suspect you might actually get a free pass on the pigs blood thing if your exposure to it came as a result of waging a jihad. The Pershing story is pretty dubious at best. urban legends Edited July 30, 2012 by chicot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I type real fast and somehow, IDK why, the spell check no longer works. It's actually going to be a problem this started about 2 days ago. I'll never proof my own posts b/c I'm above that, so without auto catch every homophone, common spelling error, or even just muscle memory gone wrong in my fingers is going to make me out to be a fool. I say this not as an excuse, but to ask if anyone knows why on earth the autocheck would suddenly not work in google chrome/windows 7/whatever the problem is. WTF is going on? The automatic red lines are gone, and now I have to type for myself and this is truly scary. Maybe your spell check is just plain worn out from over use? Are you serious about not ever proofing your posts? Forcing yourself to follow the old style of writing keeps you from entering the sloppy way of communicating that so many people have chosen. You know, no capital letters and YAASSWAD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Maybe your spell check is just plain worn out from over use? Are you serious about not ever proofing your posts? Forcing yourself to follow the old style of writing keeps you from entering the sloppy way of communicating that so many people have chosen. You know, no capital letters and YAASSWAD? Have you seen my posts? Yes I'm serious. They're just whatever I would say if I were talking (even worse as if I were just thinking out loud) they're terrible everybody on this board should know that by now...why do you think I use so many "..." it's when things get weird it just allows the reader to regroup without me rewriting anything. Anyway I'm being dead serious...I'm !@#$ing worried about my personal laptop some idiot friend got the stupid new batman movie offline handed me a usb and now my chrome runs slow and spell check doesn't work. Malwarebytes found a few infected files that I think it got rid off but no fix on this stupid spell issue and chrome still runs kind of slow. I think I have a problem and it's not my first rodeo...used to pirate a lot of music couple years ago and it always ends with me having to reset my windows which is a HUGE pain. Basically coming to terms with the fact that this will happen again. You sould rejoice. I'm passing my version of a kidney stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Have you seen my posts? Yes I'm serious. They're just whatever I would say if I were talking (even worse as if I were just thinking out loud) they're terrible everybody on this board should know that by now...why do you think I use so many "..." it's when things get weird it just allows the reader to regroup without me rewriting anything. Anyway I'm being dead serious...I'm !@#$ing worried about my personal laptop some idiot friend got the stupid new batman movie offline handed me a usb and now my chrome runs slow and spell check doesn't work. Malwarebytes found a few infected files that I think it got rid off but no fix on this stupid spell issue and chrome still runs kind of slow. I think I have a problem and it's not my first rodeo...used to pirate a lot of music couple years ago and it always ends with me having to reset my windows which is a HUGE pain. Basically coming to terms with the fact that this will happen again. You sould rejoice. I'm passing my version of a kidney stone. Sorry, NB but Chicot (reminds me of a European) is already busting my balls about fricken pig's blood and you want to give me schit too, about your personal IT problems? Time to pull up some old Ronald Reagan speeches and get back to reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 I'm going to go way way out there in terms of the way Americans typically discuss foreign policy but IMHO...I don't think EVEN IF they build a damn bomb...it's worth going to war over. Period. Nuclear arms have historically been a deterent. We had our cold war never fired them. Lots of other countries have them and don't use them. Pakistan and India went to war constantly until the bomb now they both have one and never do anymore. I understand teh rhetoric of Iran is out of control but I do see them as rational actors, they are interested in their own preservation. Not to say I wouldn't try to do everything I can to stop them from getting a bomb. But the policy of "we will do what it takes to make Israel safe"...if that means going to war to stop Iran from getting a bomb...the bottom line is that's a stupid ****ing policy no matter what candidate says it. I think secretly at least Obama knows that and maybe even Mitt (I hope). And I sure as hell basically know Iran has done the math and knows it isn't worth it for any country to go nuts over this... Good post Oh? http://news.yahoo.com/israel-denies-seeing-us-iran-strike-plan-093247382.html JERUSALEM (AP) — The Israeli government has denied an Israeli newspaper report that the Obama administration's top security official has briefed the Jewish state's prime minister on U.S. plans for a possible attack on Iran. Seems like Romney and his former Bush Administration officials are the only pushing war on our side. neocons, vote for the neocons, they love America? Ron Paul is quiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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