You herd it hear last Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Chime in if you can shed some light on this. With so much talk on the switch to Wanny's 4-3 and who should play what position, what about the defensive backfield? You hear so much about how a DE34 has to put on weight to be a DT43, LB's move to DE, et al. How much does this change affect CB's and safeties? For instance, is there a more suitable body type for a 4-3 strong safety than his counterpart in the 3-4? Is there a 'playing style' or skillset that would lend itself to success in either D? How about the new 4-3 learning curve for let's say a... Leodis McKelvin? So many questions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglukes Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 At first glance I thought this thread was going to be about the Arizona Diamondbacks. But to the topic at hand, the defensive backfield is the least affected area by the scheme change. Some of the coverages may be different, but the basics are still the same; stay with your assignment where it be the man or a zone and blitz when called for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 (edited) Fronts don't effect the secondary, philosophy does. I believe that Wanny plays more man since he is from the Jimmy Johnson/Butch Davis coaching tree. I posted this link a while back that explains Wanny's defense origins. Its a good read and it'll give us some insight into what to expect. Keep in mind that most defenses in the NFL will have to be multiple (fronts/coverage) moving forward because of spread looks are so popular now. http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2010/9/28/1695461/miami-unc-the-4-3-over-slide-front Edited July 27, 2012 by John Cocktosten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 While fronts dont affect the secondary for the most part.....there are some minor tweaks Keep in mind where your pass rush is coming from. In a 3-4 your down linemen have to be bigger because they "push" the pocket and have to hold down offensive linemen and blockers from getting to the 2nd level and putting hats on linebackers..... In a 4-3 your pass rush mostly comes from your down linemen while everyone else drops back into passing lanes...flooding them. This means a. Your down linemen had better be good at putting pressure on a QB b. QB's are forced to hold the ball a tad longer because if they dont see it and throw it could be a pick 6 going the other way BUT Because your down linemen are now focused on pass rush...this means that everyone behind them has to be "run stop" orientated....AND you have one less linebacker on the field because you have 4 down linemen rushing the passer HENCE You need corners that will smack people in run support...which means you need to be physical back there......also.....when teams like New England employ multiple tight end sets you need guys who can "hang" with them....undersized corners will get eaten up and under speed linebackers will get left in the dust That is why I love what the bills have done with this defense....Nix really gets it.... - Size EVERYWHERE - Corners that will support the run - Speed EVERYWHERE Did everyone notice the draft picks? - 2 6' 200 pound corners that will hit you - Searcy is a absolute monster of a safety size wise - Brooks is an animal who can fly They are ALL fast Then they resigned Scott who is a bit of a S/LB hybrid so he can play multiple formations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 While fronts dont affect the secondary for the most part.....there are some minor tweaks Keep in mind where your pass rush is coming from. In a 3-4 your down linemen have to be bigger because they "push" the pocket and have to hold down offensive linemen and blockers from getting to the 2nd level and putting hats on linebackers..... In a 4-3 your pass rush mostly comes from your down linemen while everyone else drops back into passing lanes...flooding them. This means a. Your down linemen had better be good at putting pressure on a QB b. QB's are forced to hold the ball a tad longer because if they dont see it and throw it could be a pick 6 going the other way BUT Because your down linemen are now focused on pass rush...this means that everyone behind them has to be "run stop" orientated....AND you have one less linebacker on the field because you have 4 down linemen rushing the passer HENCE You need corners that will smack people in run support...which means you need to be physical back there......also.....when teams like New England employ multiple tight end sets you need guys who can "hang" with them....undersized corners will get eaten up and under speed linebackers will get left in the dust That is why I love what the bills have done with this defense....Nix really gets it.... - Size EVERYWHERE - Corners that will support the run - Speed EVERYWHERE Did everyone notice the draft picks? - 2 6' 200 pound corners that will hit you - Searcy is a absolute monster of a safety size wise - Brooks is an animal who can fly They are ALL fast Then they resigned Scott who is a bit of a S/LB hybrid so he can play multiple formations Great post. I will add some later if I get the chance, but you wrapped it up well. A few quick notes. With the added time the QB has the ball you have two other things - Mike Vick and the mobile QB you must account for, some times devoting one guy to spy the QB. The other is that the CBs must be mindfull of the ball and keep their eyes on the QB. The longer the QB has the ball the longer the play can stretch causing liabilities in sloppy coverage. The CB's will rely on the DE's done. There is no reason the DE should lose containment. In a 3-4 the OLB's can stop the line a little bit easier, the quick RB's in todays game get around quicker and duck through the middle quick. CB's often don't have the time to hesitate on their first step without being beat by quick players like Lloyd. The SS in the 4-3 needs to be right there to back up the ILB on the runs, some times the second guy with his hands on him. The FS needs wide eyes, see exactly what is going to happen and be very smart to realize what is going to happen. The plays defensively happen quicker on a 4-3 because each player has a more direct role then a 3-4 when the MLB's might go uncovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 (edited) While fronts dont affect the secondary for the most part.....there are some minor tweaks Keep in mind where your pass rush is coming from. In a 3-4 your down linemen have to be bigger because they "push" the pocket and have to hold down offensive linemen and blockers from getting to the 2nd level and putting hats on linebackers..... In a 4-3 your pass rush mostly comes from your down linemen while everyone else drops back into passing lanes...flooding them. This means a. Your down linemen had better be good at putting pressure on a QB b. QB's are forced to hold the ball a tad longer because if they dont see it and throw it could be a pick 6 going the other way BUT Because your down linemen are now focused on pass rush...this means that everyone behind them has to be "run stop" orientated....AND you have one less linebacker on the field because you have 4 down linemen rushing the passer HENCE You need corners that will smack people in run support...which means you need to be physical back there......also.....when teams like New England employ multiple tight end sets you need guys who can "hang" with them....undersized corners will get eaten up and under speed linebackers will get left in the dust That is why I love what the bills have done with this defense....Nix really gets it.... - Size EVERYWHERE - Corners that will support the run - Speed EVERYWHERE Did everyone notice the draft picks? - 2 6' 200 pound corners that will hit you - Searcy is a absolute monster of a safety size wise - Brooks is an animal who can fly They are ALL fast Then they resigned Scott who is a bit of a S/LB hybrid so he can play multiple formations I am with you. I really like the players nix has drafted and brought in via FA for the last two seasons. I consider his first to mirror the mordak philosophy of trying to outsmart the world by finding hidden gems( which never worked) So the board may have been constructed already. Mario, Anderson, shep, searcey, Darius, Gilmore, Aaron Williams, brooks, bradham,Barnett. Just a great list of quality players. Morrison still has some left and then Rogers & tank might stick around and contribute too. These last two guys were the caliber of the whole d years ago. Edited July 27, 2012 by over 20 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 The actual shell only varies a little based solely on 34 vs 43 The bigger issue will be philosophy like man vs zone, blitzing vs sitting back, etc..... While there might be slight tweaks youll never really hear "he's a good 34 corner" in a football 101. Where as the line has to change body types for obvious reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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