BuffaloBillsForever Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) And by "we" I mean the majority, including myself. This wonderful thread started by BillnutinHouston below has changed my entire perspective of the Kelsay extension. This was a calculated decision for changing the "culture" of the franchise and rewarding those players that will help change that culture. Buddy Nix was correct, culture change needs to take place before winning. Now I think we are in the winning phase. Go Bills! http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/147909-david-nelson-speaks-about-team-divisiveness-in-2010/ Has this changed any perspective for you? Edited July 25, 2012 by BuffaloBillsForever
DrDawkinstein Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Has this changed any perspective for you? Not much. It was known Kelsay was a great lockerroom/team guy who moved his family to WNY, and really, it was the ONLY justification for the extension since it definitely wasnt his on-field play (I also called for Kelsay to be replaced after that atrocious first year at OLB). I remember a few of us who tried to bring up that reasoning at the time just got yelled at and called "kool aid drinkers" and "pollyannas". Which was typical for anyone who tried to bring some rationale to the "realists". Even though we werent saying Kelsay was great, just that the signing was understandable if you are trying to set an example for the rest of your team. Not trying to say I told you so, at all. Only that I understood where Nix was coming from on the deal since it really wasnt that big of a contract anyways. With the cap increasing, Kelsay's salary is on par with a very decent, veteran, depth DLineman. And that is exactly what he is. It just took a little time for Nix to get the other pieces in place. Most importantly, Im glad it is looking like Nix's plan is working out. Now they just need to get it done on the field. Cant wait for camp tomorrow! Go Bills!
Scraps Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Not much. It was known Kelsay was a great lockerroom/team guy who moved his family to WNY, and really, it was the ONLY justification for the extension since it definitely wasnt his on-field play (I also called for Kelsay to be replaced after that atrocious first year at OLB). I remember a few of us who tried to bring up that reasoning at the time just got yelled at and called "kool aid drinkers" and "pollyannas". Which was typical for anyone who tried to bring some rationale to the "realists". Even though we werent saying Kelsay was great, just that the signing was understandable if you are trying to set an example for the rest of your team. Not trying to say I told you so, at all. Only that I understood where Nix was coming from on the deal since it really wasnt that big of a contract anyways. With the cap increasing, Kelsay's salary is on par with a very decent, veteran, depth DLineman. And that is exactly what he is. It just took a little time for Nix to get the other pieces in place. Most importantly, Im glad it is looking like Nix's plan is working out. Now they just need to get it done on the field. Cant wait for camp tomorrow! Go Bills! I'm not sure why this topic isn't on the wall but at the time, weren't they trying to make Kelsay a starting outside linebacker for the 3-4? While he may be a decent depth lineman, he sucked as a linebacker.
DrDawkinstein Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 I'm not sure why this topic isn't on the wall but at the time, weren't they trying to make Kelsay a starting outside linebacker for the 3-4? While he may be a decent depth lineman, he sucked as a linebacker. They did. I mentioned that in my line "I also called for Kelsay to be replaced after that atrocious first year at OLB". However, surprisingly, he was much better at OLB the 2nd year. Still not good, but better. The good news is we are back to a 43, and Wanny's 43 should play to his strengths.
Buftex Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 I have pretty much towed the line that, when "everyone" here comes to a popular opinion on a certain player, "everyone" is normally wrong.
NoSaint Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 i think this was a pretty common rationale for it back then, but now that some of the fruits of it are paying off and the culture is developing its a lot easier to stomache than it was as a "trust me" type of thing at the time. im pretty sure a major part of the debate was is it worth it to pay a guy like that for what it brings to the locker room, even if on the field performance is not worth every dollar.
Meathead Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Has this changed any perspective for you? no because i was saying this five minutes after he signed the extension and yes i am just that good
John from Riverside Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Kelsay is one of those guys that if he is the "unaccounted for" player would probably shine......but gets average really quick when he is the best defensive end on your team..... He is in the right situation.....
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 26, 2012 Posted July 26, 2012 The thing that's changed is the recent revelation that the Jauron locker room was highly dysfunctional. No one here knew that or if they did, they didn't say a peep. It was always assumed that Jauron's teams consisted of good, high-character, hard-working guys who just lacked talent. NO ONE knew that there were problems with team chemistry.
artmalibu Posted July 26, 2012 Posted July 26, 2012 Kelsay is one of those guys that if he is the "unaccounted for" player would probably shine......but gets average really quick when he is the best defensive end on your team..... He is in the right situation..... Very well said. The past 2 years the Bills did not have anyone who resembled a real pass rusher!! He is a solid player on the field, not a superstar but very solid. Not a super pass rusher but does play the run very well!! Its funny because many people act like he is receiving Mario/peppers/Freeney money when is actually he is making 1/3 of what they are. Not to mention that the Bills have not been even close to the salary cap since they signed him to the extension. Here is what Buddy said "The thing you don't want to do is take your core guys and your leaders out of your system," Bills general manager Buddy Nix said Thursday, the first time he commented on Kelsay's extension. "We decided, obviously, that we've got four, five or six guys like that. They maybe are not great players, but good players that set the tone for what you want everybody else to be. "Chris Kelsay is a good player. He exemplifies what we want players to do and how we want them to be. So that's the reason he's here."
bowery4 Posted July 26, 2012 Posted July 26, 2012 Kelsey is okay, was a horrible OLBer (but he should have never been put in that position in the first place). Looked best when AS was here and when Merriman was back for the first few games last year. He should be solid as a rotational player this year. He does over commit when he has a head full of steam though. That is my biggest knock on the guy in the run and pass game. If Merriman is healthy all year does as good as the old Merriman and resigns with us, next year Chris might be looking for another place to go.
NorCal Aaron Posted July 26, 2012 Posted July 26, 2012 They could have retained Chuck Lester for a whole lot less.
Rico Posted July 26, 2012 Posted July 26, 2012 They could have retained Chuck Lester for a whole lot less.
AReed Deep For6 Posted July 26, 2012 Posted July 26, 2012 I'll fess up. I was shouting on here how stupid of a move was. Had the culture of the locker room actually been well like we all ass-umed, we'd all have been right. Overall, good move and it shows a big difference. Look at where taking a*holes with talent has got the Raiders recently
Buffalo Barbarian Posted July 26, 2012 Posted July 26, 2012 And by "we" I mean the majority, including myself. This wonderful thread started by BillnutinHouston below has changed my entire perspective of the Kelsay extension. This was a calculated decision for changing the "culture" of the franchise and rewarding those players that will help change that culture. Buddy Nix was correct, culture change needs to take place before winning. Now I think we are in the winning phase. Go Bills! http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/147909-david-nelson-speaks-about-team-divisiveness-in-2010/ Has this changed any perspective for you? No, I always liked him.
BillnutinHouston Posted July 26, 2012 Posted July 26, 2012 This was a calculated decision for changing the "culture" of the franchise and rewarding those players that will help change that culture. I think I saw what it was at the time, because after all Kelsay's productions hadn't been stellar up until then. But, in the wake of these comments by Nelson, things are put in clearer focus and you can see that phase 1 for Buddy clearly involved weeding out those who weren't "team first" and conversely promoting those like Kelsay who towed the company line, obeyed orders and went about playing a different position (OLB) even it was contrary to what he personally wanted to do.
Dorkington Posted July 26, 2012 Posted July 26, 2012 Good team guy, and I think he's a solid performer. At the time we didn't have anyone better at the position, so why not lock him up?
Mr. WEO Posted July 26, 2012 Posted July 26, 2012 The thing that's changed is the recent revelation that the Jauron locker room was highly dysfunctional. No one here knew that or if they did, they didn't say a peep. It was always assumed that Jauron's teams consisted of good, high-character, hard-working guys who just lacked talent. NO ONE knew that there were problems with team chemistry. How is it possibble that no one knew that the locker room situation was that bad? Reporters are in there all the time--never heard of it. Yet we hear about other teams' dysfunction all of the time. Where were jw, et al. when all of this high dysfunction was running rampant? Highly dysfunctional sounds very hard to miss.
biglukes Posted July 26, 2012 Posted July 26, 2012 How is it possibble that no one knew that the locker room situation was that bad? Reporters are in there all the time--never heard of it. Yet we hear about other teams' dysfunction all of the time. Where were jw, et al. when all of this high dysfunction was running rampant? Highly dysfunctional sounds very hard to miss. The media is in the room for a half an hour after games or practices. They aren't in meetings and don't even see all of practice. If nobody on the team brings it public, then the media doesn't find out. We hear about other teams issues because their big mouth players bring it public. There very well could have been those chemistry issues, nobody just wanted to air it out like the jets. Besides, why would Nelson be making it up?
Mr. WEO Posted July 26, 2012 Posted July 26, 2012 The media is in the room for a half an hour after games or practices. They aren't in meetings and don't even see all of practice. If nobody on the team brings it public, then the media doesn't find out. We hear about other teams issues because their big mouth players bring it public. There very well could have been those chemistry issues, nobody just wanted to air it out like the jets. Besides, why would Nelson be making it up? I don't think he's making it up. But it sure doesn't sound like "highly dysfunctional". Sounded like pretyy tame stuff. I would think that if it was that bad, like any other team we hear about, someone would have bitched to the press--these guys are no different than any other pro athletes. There's no code of silence and I can't imagine that any Bill beat reporter would have had absolutely no idea that any of this was going on for all those DJ years.
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