Sisyphean Bills Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 See below. Nix took the team over in February. 2 months before the draft. All he had to go on was Modrak (and staff)'s scouting reports. A LOT of the guys from that draft still have that "Modrak-stench" to them. Guys who are drafted too early due to being over-rated and who you think might turn out ok, but end up soft, injured and disappointing (see: Wang, Easly, and Troup). On the other hand, Nix had already been working for the Bills in the scouting department for a year before being elevated to the top job. He worked with Modrak for 3 drafts before firing him. Somewhat like a boomerang, Modrak is now Exec. Director at BLESTO, to which the Buffalo Bills are a member. He'll be feeding his Aaron Maybin scouting reports to more teams now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FleaMoulds80 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) These guys are backups, depth players. What are they supposed to "step up" to? You don't draft guys in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounds and expect them to be backup and depth players. Edited July 25, 2012 by FleaMoulds80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Yet no one in this thread gets your point, other than trying to be a prick. So what does that say? Are you saying you dont like Nix as a GM? That he is wrong to be calling out Troup and Carrington? What IS your point? It is a valid point that there were some that did not think these picks were good from the instant they were announced. That is a fact, and those people may not be quite so "exuberant" about Nix hinting about a possible admission. Still, it could be construed as a different point entirely as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 On the other hand, Nix had already been working for the Bills in the scouting department for a year before being elevated to the top job. He worked with Modrak for 3 drafts before firing him. Somewhat like a boomerang, Modrak is now Exec. Director at BLESTO, to which the Buffalo Bills are a member. He'll be feeding his Aaron Maybin scouting reports to more teams now. Indeed, Nix was around, I dont mean to ignore that. But he was simply just another scout, and not even dedicated to a certain region. And once he had the proper authority, he only let Modrak stick around for one draft before firing him. I also dont think 3 drafts is accurate. He was hired as a scout in Jan. of 2009, and promoted to GM the next year. It would have been 1 draft with Nix as a scout, and 1 as GM, and then he sent Modrak packing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 When all is said and done, what Nix is saying and what he's doing is a refreshing change. As someone else has stated, you don't draft guys early with the expectation that they're simply going to be "depth" at their position. If they end up being depth because of what they've done in free agency and subsequent drafts, that's fine, but they better be solid backups. There are currently 83 players on the roster and that will have to be 55 by the start of the season. If Troup and Carrington don't step up, I say broom them. They had potential when they were drafted, but that was going on 3 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Indeed, Nix was around, I dont mean to ignore that. But he was simply just another scout, and not even dedicated to a certain region. And once he had the proper authority, he only let Modrak stick around for one draft before firing him. I also dont think 3 drafts is accurate. He was hired as a scout in Jan. of 2009, and promoted to GM the next year. It would have been 1 draft with Nix as a scout, and 1 as GM, and then he sent Modrak packing. 2009, 2010, 2011 is 3. I am not saying the roles did not change over that period. I agree that Nix probably had little to do with the 2009 draft class as he had a nebulous role and was recently brought on board. In 2010, he chose to keep Modrak and some would say that the draft had a similar look-n-feel to earlier drafts. I assume it was more collaborative. In 2011, I said during the draft that it looked like Buddy had locked Tom in the men's room during the draft. Nix' fingerprints were all over that draft from top to bottom. Modrak had spent most of the year scouting Blaine Gabbert, as you may recall, which looks now like it was a pure decoy mission. Buddy fired him right after the 2011 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Actually, Modrak was fired in May, 2011. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/04/bills-fire-longtime-personnel-executive-tom-modrak/ Bad memory -- thanks for the fact check! I'm surprised Buddy kept him around a whole year+ after becoming GM. If anything, I think this even more makes the case that Modrak probably had his fingerprints all over the 2010 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainwampus Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 So, nobody cares that Carrington blocked 2 kicks, stuffed 4 runs and deflected a pass for an INT? How many other D-line players did absolutely nothing and don't get called out? Kelsay, I'm lookin at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 2009, 2010, 2011 is 3. I am not saying the roles did not change over that period. I agree that Nix probably had little to do with the 2009 draft class as he had a nebulous role and was recently brought on board. In 2010, he chose to keep Modrak and some would say that the draft had a similar look-n-feel to earlier drafts. I assume it was more collaborative. In 2011, I said during the draft that it looked like Buddy had locked Tom in the men's room during the draft. Nix' fingerprints were all over that draft from top to bottom. Modrak had spent most of the year scouting Blaine Gabbert, as you may recall, which looks now like it was a pure decoy mission. Buddy fired him right after the 2011 draft. Ah ha, thanks for the research. I thought he was ousted shortly after the 2010 draft. Great point about scouting Gabbert. lol, that Buddy is smart like a fox! So, nobody cares that Carrington blocked 2 kicks, stuffed 4 runs and deflected a pass for an INT? How many other D-line players did absolutely nothing and don't get called out? Kelsay, I'm lookin at you. Agreed, I dont think Carrington has been that bad or disappointing at all. But now he has some MAJOR competition at DL and is going to have to step it up even more to warrant a roster spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 So, nobody cares that Carrington blocked 2 kicks, stuffed 4 runs and deflected a pass for an INT? How many other D-line players did absolutely nothing and don't get called out? Kelsay, I'm lookin at you. I'm with you on Kelsay. I really just don't get it with him. He's had modest success at best and never really stood out as being dominant in any aspect of the game. I thought for sure he was going to be cut in 2010 when his contract expired. Instead, they give him a 4-year $28 million deal with $11 million guaranteed. It's absolutely baffling to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I'm with you on Kelsay. I really just don't get it with him. He's had modest success at best and never really stood out as being dominant in any aspect of the game. I thought for sure he was going to be cut in 2010 when his contract expired. Instead, they give him a 4-year $28 million deal with $11 million guaranteed. It's absolutely baffling to me. Biggest sunfish in a pond of minnows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I'm with you on Kelsay. I really just don't get it with him. He's had modest success at best and never really stood out as being dominant in any aspect of the game. I thought for sure he was going to be cut in 2010 when his contract expired. Instead, they give him a 4-year $28 million deal with $11 million guaranteed. It's absolutely baffling to me. Go back and look at the roster prior to that season. It was pitiful. With Schobel deciding to retire on the eve of TC and Ryan Denney gone, Nix couldnt let his only guy who had even ever played before go. He needed a hard working guy to show the team how to be a pro. Once the coaching staff decided that Kelsey couldnt cover jermichael Finely and he was moved to more of hand in the ground player, he was much more effective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I'm with you on Kelsay. I really just don't get it with him. He's had modest success at best and never really stood out as being dominant in any aspect of the game. I thought for sure he was going to be cut in 2010 when his contract expired. Instead, they give him a 4-year $28 million deal with $11 million guaranteed. It's absolutely baffling to me. New insight on the Kelsay extension is begin discussed here: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/147947-we-were-wrong-about-the-chris-kelsay-extension/ The article referred to in that thread is here: http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article962047.ece?twobillsdrive Not quite so baffling when you consider the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Just my $.02. Troupe has a very hard transition ahead of him with back problems plaguing him. Going from a space eater in the middle to a mobile and agile gap player is not that easy when tourney that big...and again injured. Harrington is not fork in the steak done. His natural athleticism is apparent though he is retooling his bag to play a new role. I am anxious to see what he will get this preseason and think he will be project player to do role positions. Gailey has done well drafting and these last two drafts have played out well. I think slowly he has got his guys where he wants him and Modrak had probably moved in to more of a support role in his last year. The Bills having to sign Kelsey is valid but more importantly the guy is no slouch. He is valuable to this team! Edited July 25, 2012 by jboyst62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 New insight on the Kelsay extension is begin discussed here: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/147947-we-were-wrong-about-the-chris-kelsay-extension/ The article referred to in that thread is here: http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article962047.ece?twobillsdrive Not quite so baffling when you consider the circumstances. I get the "culture of character" mentality, and do know that Kelsay fits that mold. However, I don't get $11 million guaranteed or $28 million over 4 years for a part time defensive end. Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying I don't like Kelsay. He's as blue collar, lunch pale as it gets. I'm just looking at it from the perspective of cost-benefit and can't get there on that basis. Kelsay was an awful linebacker. Hopefully he'll get some opportunities to spell Mario and keep him fresh and prove me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) I got your point. Disagreeing with it doesn't make me miserable. In fact looking at the way you respond to those who disagree with you or make cogent arguments against your point of view (your response to joe 6 pack is another gem) makes you look pretty miserable whenever someone rocks your homer boat even just a little. Yeah but your act wears thin. It seems like you argue just for the sake of arguing. It is a noticeable & pretty significant point E is making. Nix is calling out 2nd & 3rd round picks that he drafted. Very few GM's call their own picks into question so early in their careers. Nix is confident & secure enough to do this. He was also candid about stating the excuses are over, it is time to start winning some ball games. Unlike some posters, I actually don't mind some of your posts but you do seem overly pessimistic most of the time almost as if you rather see the Bills lose & be able to B word about it then have them win & be happy about the team. If your a Bills fan & can't be optimistic going into training camp after the offseason we have had you probably should look for another team to route for. Edited July 25, 2012 by Gordio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toshiero Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Definitely refreshingly honest! Troup once had so much upside but injuries have done him in. Buddy is not about to protect a pick or trade of his once it is clear the guy isn't going to work out . For Buddy it is all about purring a winning team togethe. We have needed that for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I get the "culture of character" mentality, and do know that Kelsay fits that mold. However, I don't get $11 million guaranteed or $28 million over 4 years for a part time defensive end. Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying I don't like Kelsay. He's as blue collar, lunch pale as it gets. I'm just looking at it from the perspective of cost-benefit and can't get there on that basis. Kelsay was an awful linebacker. Hopefully he'll get some opportunities to spell Mario and keep him fresh and prove me wrong. To better understand it, we need to get a better look at the numbers first. $11 million guaranteed over 4 years is not that much. Not even $3mil/year. And when you look at the breakdown, and see that he NEVER has a cap hit of more than $5million, it doesnt look like that big of a contract at all. Actually pretty typical for a guy with his experience. It's a lot of money to you and me, but in the NFL, this simply is not a big contract. We are not wasting much cap space or resources that could go somewhere else. Add in the fact that Kelsay was in his last year, and as Nix has noted, they were simply trying to find 53 guys who could play football, all while trying to turn the culture around with good character examples... Not that baffling, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 What I got from Buddy's comments was that he had some confidence that they will step up. Troup may surprise and Carrington will be in his natural position where he can get as big as he wants to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) To better understand it, we need to get a better look at the numbers first. $11 million guaranteed over 4 years is not that much. Not even $3mil/year. And when you look at the breakdown, and see that he NEVER has a cap hit of more than $5million, it doesnt look like that big of a contract at all. Actually pretty typical for a guy with his experience. It's a lot of money to you and me, but in the NFL, this simply is not a big contract. We are not wasting much cap space or resources that could go somewhere else. Add in the fact that Kelsay was in his last year, and as Nix has noted, they were simply trying to find 53 guys who could play football, all while trying to turn the culture around with good character examples... Not that baffling, imo. You need to actually look at the reality of the situation. This is what the contract was: 4 years, $28.200 million total with $11 million signing bonus. 2011 - $6.230 million base salary + $2.750 million prorated signing bonus. $8.980 million cap hit last year. 2012 - $3.500 million base salary + $2.750 million prorated signing bonus. $6.250 million cap hit this year. 2013 - $3.725 million base salary + $2.750 million prorated signing bonus. $6.475 million cap hit next year. 2014 - $3.745 million base salary + $2.750 million prorated signing bonus. $6.495 million cap hit in 2014. Do yourself a favor and do some math. $28.2/4 years = $7.05 million per year. Not only is it over $5 million, it's over $5 million EVERY year. Definitely baffling. Edited July 25, 2012 by Luxy312 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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