WorldTraveller Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I was talking socially to a tax partner at a big NY law firm last week and he was wondering the same thing.... You seem to be somewhat obsessed over this matter. Considering that Dianne Feinstein recently stated that the W.H is involved in the leaks that jeopardize some of our foreign operatives, you surely must be more outraged over this development, much more so than the relatively insignificant issue of mitts taxes right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly McButterpants Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Late to the party but let me see if I've got this straight. Company in Chicago struggles to compete in this economy. Rather than shut-down, said company decides to outsource labor to wherever. Numbskulls with no understanding of macro-economics feel that shareholders should hang on to current, unsustainable situation, bleed cash, eventually go BK, liquidate assets, everyone loses their job, Pension Guarantee fund picks up the cost of the workers pensions, taxpayers hold the bag. Did I miss anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldTraveller Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Late to the party but let me see if I've got this straight. Company in Chicago struggles to compete in this economy. Rather than shut-down, said company decides to outsource labor to wherever. Numbskulls with no understanding of macro-economics feel that shareholders should hang on to current, unsustainable situation, bleed cash, eventually go BK, liquidate assets, everyone loses their job, Pension Guarantee fund picks up the cost of the workers pensions, taxpayers hold the bag. Did I miss anything? Dude, you can't reason with emotion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomato can Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Late to the party but let me see if I've got this straight. Company in Chicago struggles to compete in this economy. Rather than shut-down, said company decides to outsource labor to wherever. Numbskulls with no understanding of macro-economics feel that shareholders should hang on to current, unsustainable situation, bleed cash, eventually go BK, liquidate assets, everyone loses their job, Pension Guarantee fund picks up the cost of the workers pensions, taxpayers hold the bag. Did I miss anything? Get your facts straight Butterpants! Sensata struggled during the global recession of 2008-2009 like everyone else but has turned a profit lately. It predicted in April it would earn between $2 and $2.20 per adjusted share for the 2012 financial year. The company's share price has risen from $18 at its initial public offering in March 2010 to close at $26.56 on Tuesday, outpacing the Dow Jones Industrial Average by nearly twice as much in percentage terms. Romney allies say that current tax law is driving companies to set up shop overseas. Sensata bought the Freeport plant as part of an acquisition of Honeywell International's auto-sensor business in late 2010. The 170 jobs there were at risk from the start of the purchase. "The decision was made as part and parcel of the acquisition. If we'd been forced to keep the facility we probably wouldn't have bought the business in the first place," Sensata spokesman Jacob Sayer said. Bain declined to comment on the factory closure. In their first meeting with their new employers when the deal was completed in January 2011, workers at the plant were told their jobs would be eliminated by the end of 2012. Chinese workers have since been brought in to learn how to operate the equipment. Dude, you can't reason with emotion Reason with emotion? REALLY! I think people like you that believe the crap that is served to you by these crooks in the name of good economics has a hard to selling that garbage when the real facts come out! Edited July 25, 2012 by tomato can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldTraveller Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Get your facts straight Butterpants! Sensata struggled during the global recession of 2008-2009 like everyone else but has turned a profit lately. It predicted in April it would earn between $2 and $2.20 per adjusted share for the 2012 financial year. The company's share price has risen from $18 at its initial public offering in March 2010 to close at $26.56 on Tuesday, outpacing the Dow Jones Industrial Average by nearly twice as much in percentage terms. Romney allies say that current tax law is driving companies to set up shop overseas. Sensata bought the Freeport plant as part of an acquisition of Honeywell International's auto-sensor business in late 2010. The 170 jobs there were at risk from the start of the purchase. "The decision was made as part and parcel of the acquisition. If we'd been forced to keep the facility we probably wouldn't have bought the business in the first place," Sensata spokesman Jacob Sayer said. Bain declined to comment on the factory closure. In their first meeting with their new employers when the deal was completed in January 2011, workers at the plant were told their jobs would be eliminated by the end of 2012. Chinese workers have since been brought in to learn how to operate the equipment. Reason with emotion? REALLY! I think people like you that believe the crap that is served to you by these crooks in the name of good economics has a hard to selling that garbage when the real facts come out! Yep, mhmm facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Ladies and Gentlemen of the electorate, this is Chewbacca Chewbacca is first mate on the Millenium Falcon. His Captain is Han Solo. Han Solo also played Indiana Jones. Indiana Jones proved that, Yes he can fly. But he can not land. Think about that. Why would an 8 foot tall hairy Wookie want to hang out on a space ship with a guy that's just going to crash? That does not make sense! Further, Mr Solo won the Falcon in a game of Sabacc against Lando Calrisian. Mr Calrisian is quite possibly the only black man left in the Star Wars Universe, after the A Wing pilot crashed into the bridge of the Super Star Destroyer during the battle of the Second Death Star. Why am I bringing up Mr Calrisian's race? Because there have been rumours that Mr Solo, a white man, cheated Mr Calrisian from his property. Ladies and gentlemen of the supposed Electorate. While you're pontificating during deficating or menstrutrating, I want you to keep all of this in mind. Why? Why am I talking about Star Wars in the middle of Mitt Romney thread? Further, why am I talking about stuff that's not even in any of the movies? That does not make sense! If Han shot first, you must vote Obama Yep folks, that's all Obama's campaign is. A massive billion dollar Chewbacca defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Rolled over a 401(k). Seriosuly...I hadn't heard of that until now. That's interesting...best speculation I've heard is that he contributed shares of companies Bain bought, but at far below nominal value (which was cheap to begin with). Probably not even illegal over the time period in question. Certainly would be unethical, though. The valuation would have to be the same as what the Bain fund in question valued the investment at the time of the roll over. It would definitely be unethical, don't know about legality, to use a different valuation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 You seem to be somewhat obsessed over this matter. Considering that Dianne Feinstein recently stated that the W.H is involved in the leaks that jeopardize some of our foreign operatives, you surely must be more outraged over this development, much more so than the relatively insignificant issue of mitts taxes right? Once again when faced with an unpleasant truth you simply change the subject. That dog really don't hunt. On the leak point, it's kind of rich that one of Romney's chief campaigners pushing that point, Eric Edelman, was himself implicated in the Valerie Plame outing--remember that? How's that for hypocrisy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Get your facts straight Butterpants! Sensata struggled during the global recession of 2008-2009 like everyone else but has turned a profit lately. It predicted in April it would earn between $2 and $2.20 per adjusted share for the 2012 financial year. The company's share price has risen from $18 at its initial public offering in March 2010 to close at $26.56 on Tuesday, outpacing the Dow Jones Industrial Average by nearly twice as much in percentage terms. Romney allies say that current tax law is driving companies to set up shop overseas. Sensata bought the Freeport plant as part of an acquisition of Honeywell International's auto-sensor business in late 2010. The 170 jobs there were at risk from the start of the purchase. "The decision was made as part and parcel of the acquisition. If we'd been forced to keep the facility we probably wouldn't have bought the business in the first place," Sensata spokesman Jacob Sayer said. Bain declined to comment on the factory closure. In their first meeting with their new employers when the deal was completed in January 2011, workers at the plant were told their jobs would be eliminated by the end of 2012. Chinese workers have since been brought in to learn how to operate the equipment. Read this again - this posts confirms Fatty's point. The plant would not survive on its own in Chicago and these workers would have been out of a job sooner. By moving operation to China, Sensata will make a stronger profit and will continue to invest in its business, very likely in the US (maybe not in Chicago). The alternative is declining profits, low reinvestment and a perpetual 10% unemployment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 The valuation would have to be the same as what the Bain fund in question valued the investment at the time of the roll over. It would definitely be unethical, don't know about legality, to use a different valuation. My buddy considered the rollover idea, but still wasn't sure how you could get so much money into a tax deferred account without gaming the system somehow (at least on initial valuation). BTW, my tax friend is not particularly political, but merely a tax wonk..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 It rather illustrative, when you see a major newspaper invent a "scandal" out of nothing. Gee, I can't imagine why the Romney camp doesn't want to release additional tax forms for these fools to plow through, and then claim "X" is really "Y" lol And put the onus on Mitt to prove it's false. The obvious way to settle the issue, she said, was for Romney to release his tax returns: “If the SEC filings aren’t accurate, then prove it,” she said. http://www.politicususa.com/lesson-mitt-romney-life-happen-retroactively-real-world.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Once again when faced with an unpleasant truth you simply change the subject. That dog really don't hunt. On the leak point, it's kind of rich that one of Romney's chief campaigners pushing that point, Eric Edelman, was himself implicated in the Valerie Plame outing--remember that? How's that for hypocrisy? The true hypocrisy is even considering that the two leaks are remotely similar in their gravity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Hey B word, we Chinese have the number 2 economy now, and we are commies. Fear us! But you're Korean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldTraveller Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Once again when faced with an unpleasant truth you simply change the subject. That dog really don't hunt. On the leak point, it's kind of rich that one of Romney's chief campaigners pushing that point, Eric Edelman, was himself implicated in the Valerie Plame outing--remember that? How's that for hypocrisy? No, the only hypocrisy here is coming from you my man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Wow, people are blaming Romney for jobs that are being shipped overseas on Obama's watch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Worst thread on the board. A quick check of the (online) front pages of the NYT, WaPo, and others today (even the front pages of their POLITICAL sections) Show NO mention of this "more problems for Mitt" Bullsh*t..............and you know why. Its not a big story !!! If you read the actual Chicago Trib story linked in the OP, it describes a failing Illinois company that has asked Mitt Romney (and President Obama by the way) to intervene. The OP then invented this as a "problem" for Mitt because, the Parent Company is connected to Bain. Some might call it a "leap" , I call it fantasy. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjamie12 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 My buddy considered the rollover idea, but still wasn't sure how you could get so much money into a tax deferred account without gaming the system somehow (at least on initial valuation). BTW, my tax friend is not particularly political, but merely a tax wonk..... I'm pretty sure that this came up before. There was something about Bain employees being able to invest alongside Bain within their company sponsored IRA. They were able to somehow create different classes of shares for the employees that made the investment legal. I thought it was pretty clever, and now wish that I was working at Bain for the last 10 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I'm pretty sure that this came up before. There was something about Bain employees being able to invest alongside Bain within their company sponsored IRA. They were able to somehow create different classes of shares for the employees that made the investment legal. I thought it was pretty clever, and now wish that I was working at Bain for the last 10 years... As a privately held company those shares could have been valued at any price when given as profit sharing or purchased by Romney either in a SEP or 401k. That price means nothing until the company is sold (which it was I believe) and then the shares all of a sudden become worth market value which couel be a HUGE increase from the value when placed in his qualified plan. It's not difficult to do. It's funny how when this first came out I was able to find all sorts of answers in financial and tax planning sites. Now when I search it all I come up with are lefty sites screaming at the top of their lungs that he's a tax cheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 The valuation would have to be the same as what the Bain fund in question valued the investment at the time of the roll over. It would definitely be unethical, don't know about legality, to use a different valuation. I was actually joking about the rollover. As for the rest...Chef's response below/above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I was actually joking about the rollover. As for the rest...Chef's response below/above. And here's the funny thing. The tax the rich crowd should actually be praising this move. When Romney begins to liquidate that IRA which he will have to in 5 years or so it will be taxes as ordinary income not capital gains. That's why I said earlier it seems like a dumb move. We actually have people liquidate highly appreciated assets in their qualified plan, even if they're under 59 1/2. Move it into a non-qualified plan, pay the 10% penalty if required and then begin to liquidate them over time and now pay cap gains versus income. He may very well be doing that, I can't imagine I'm smarter than his planners. The move is called Net Unrealized Appreciation (NUA). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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