Penn State sanctions handed down

[jumbalaya]

I am not a Penn State fan, I am not a Joe Paterno fan. Joe Paterno did not molest any children, Jerry Sandusky did. Joe Paterno was not convicted of a crime! Jerry Sandusky was. This is above and beyond the NCAA's business, Sports. They are not a court of law!

I am not a penn state, joe p fan. this is very fair and could have been more severe.

[Gordio]

Unrelated thoughts from a small time college football fan:

 

1) Seems pretty stiff and rightfully so. I would have preferred the Death penalty rather than a four year dragging on penalty.

 

2) I am always curious about when they take away wins or trophies. What does that actually accomplish/ penalize? I understand Joe Paterno will lose his legacy but.... Any player during those years will remember their records from each year. Whether they were stripped of the wins or not. Any student/fan will always remember their teams from those years.

 

Also, I would be curious to see if during any of the years wins are being pulled away, if Penn State beat a #1 ranked team, undefeated team or national championship contender. If so, theoretically said team should have been playing for a nationally championship. Does anyone know if they ruined another teams season during this period?

 

3) Bush decided to forfeit his 2005 Heisman trophy, however, everyone still knows he was the best player in 2005. Hard to just erase trophies and wins.

 

4) USC had a 2 year bowl ban and lost 20 football scholarships. However, being bowl eligible this year, they are preseason ranked by many around #2 or #3. seems like the lack of bowl games and scholarship losses did far from KILL the program.

 

*I know 4 years is much worse than a 2 years because you loss a whole class, however, I am just making the point USC has returned as strong as when they got penalized.

Kind of a poor analogy with USC. Yes they are going into the season ranked in the top 5 but that is just because they have a ton of returning starters coming back who now will be seniors which were recruited under Carrol's watch & before the sanctions hit. After this year, watch USC the next 5 years, I guaranty they are nowhere near the national title picture. They are going to feel those sanctions for the next several years.

[eball]

And how about the PSU players, who through no fault of their own, have now had their college careers turned to ash? It seems to me they are the bearing the brunt of the penalty since their time on campus is limited to the here and now--which is a lot more valuable than any rewriting of the record books or having the school pay a hefty fine.

 

It's like sending everyone in town to jail because the mayor and chief of police commited a crime. The sins of omission by Joe Pa and the administration were unforgivable, but the torch and pitchfork croud's need to find someone to punish--whether they had any culpability, or in this case, even if they didn't--seems out of line, IMO.

Let's not get carried away. I think as long as the players weren't also complicit in the child rape going on behind Sandusky's doors, then their college experience hasn't been tainted in any way other than knowing the leaders at their school made some very bad decisions. They still played the games, attended classes, and had the same "Penn State Experience" as hundreds before and after them.

 

The record books really don't mean very much.

[Jerry Jabber]

IMO, all of the fines & injunctions against Penn State are warranted except for the 4 year playoff ban. The NCAA is punishing the current students for the 'sins" of the past. Don't get me wrong, Paterno and anyone else that knew this sick, scum bag pedophile was raping little kids and did nothing should have their names dragged through the mud.

 

Got this from an article on msn: "Penn State football under Paterno was built on - and thrived upon - the premise that it did things the right way. That it was not a football factory where only wins and losses determined success. Every major college football program tries to send that message, but Penn State built its brand on it. Paterno's ''Grand Experiment'' was about winning with integrity, graduating players and sending men into the world ready to succeed in life, not just football." http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/penn-state-punishment-jerry-sandusky-sex-abuse-scandal-072312

 

Turns out Paterno and others didn't live by their own "code" and should be shamed and tarnished for many years to come. While it was that sick scum bag which committed these heinous acts, Paterno and others deserve all the negative press against them, because they protected their football program and this pedophile, instead of doing the right thing by protecting the victims, who happened to be little kids.

[NoSaint]

IMO, all of the fines & injunctions against Penn State are warranted except for the 4 year playoff ban. The NCAA is punishing the current students for the 'sins" of the past. Don't get me wrong, Paterno and anyone else that knew this sick, scum bag pedophile was raping little kids and did nothing should have their names dragged through the mud.

 

Got this from an article on msn: "Penn State football under Paterno was built on - and thrived upon - the premise that it did things the right way. That it was not a football factory where only wins and losses determined success. Every major college football program tries to send that message, but Penn State built its brand on it. Paterno's ''Grand Experiment'' was about winning with integrity, graduating players and sending men into the world ready to succeed in life, not just football." http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/penn-state-punishment-jerry-sandusky-sex-abuse-scandal-072312

 

Turns out Paterno and others didn't live by their own "code" and should be shamed and tarnished for many years to come. While it was that sick scum bag which committed these heinous acts, Paterno and others deserve all the negative press against them, because they protected their football program and this pedophile, instead of doing the right thing by protecting the victims, who happened to be little kids.

 

anyone that followed college football even slightly saw the major issues he had with discipline in the program the last 10-15 years(?) Just a ballpark as i didnt follow closely but his players run ins with the police and how they were handled were not secret. its not a shock that it happened with a coach too - the real shock was that it was over an issue like this.

[Mark Vader]

Ok 4 years.

 

Rose Bowl? That's nice. Winner of the Big Ten goes. Big Ten is also past its prime.

Winning a conference is a big deal. It's not easy getting to the Rose Bowl.

 

Don't believe me?

 

Last appearance in the Rose Bowl for qualifying Big 10 & Pac-12 Teams within the last 10 years(Colorado, Nebraska, and Utah exempt):

 

Washington: 2001

 

Stanford: 2000

 

UCLA: 1999

 

Arizona State: 1997

 

Northwestern: 1996

 

Iowa: 1991

 

Michigan State: 1988

 

Indiana: 1968

 

Oregon State: 1965

 

Minnesota: 1962

 

California: 1959

 

Arizona: Never

 

So in your eyes does this make the Pac-12 irrelevent as well?

[mrpunchy]

I am not a Penn State fan, I am not a Joe Paterno fan. Joe Paterno did not molest any children, Jerry Sandusky did. Joe Paterno was not convicted of a crime! Jerry Sandusky was. This is above and beyond the NCAA's business, Sports. They are not a court of law!

 

Joe Paterno had first hand knowledge of child sexual assault and covered it up repeatedly over years. He was not convicted of a crime? What he hell does that have to do with it? He knew he's guilty.

[NoSaint]

Winning a conference is a big deal. It's not easy getting to the Rose Bowl.

 

Don't believe me?

 

Last appearance in the Rose Bowl for qualifying Big 10 & Pac-12 Teams within the last 10 years(Colorado, Nebraska, and Utah exempt):

 

Washington: 2001

 

Stanford: 2000

 

UCLA: 1999

 

Arizona State: 1997

 

Northwestern: 1996

 

Iowa: 1991

 

Michigan State: 1988

 

Indiana: 1968

 

Oregon State: 1965

 

Minnesota: 1962

 

California: 1959

 

Arizona: Never

 

So in your eyes does this make the Pac-12 irrelevent as well?

 

he was clearly pointing out the SEC is the top dog and that no one else matters... that said penn state might not be an elite program but they were definitely an upper echelon program that 95% of teams would have traded records/bowl success with.

[Jerry Jabber]

anyone that followed college football even slightly saw the major issues he had with discipline in the program the last 10-15 years(?) Just a ballpark as i didnt follow closely but his players run ins with the police and how they were handled were not secret. its not a shock that it happened with a coach too - the real shock was that it was over an issue like this.

 

Agreed!

[K-9]

IMO, all of the fines & injunctions against Penn State are warranted except for the 4 year playoff ban. The NCAA is punishing the current students for the 'sins" of the past. Don't get me wrong, Paterno and anyone else that knew this sick, scum bag pedophile was raping little kids and did nothing should have their names dragged through the mud.

 

Got this from an article on msn: "Penn State football under Paterno was built on - and thrived upon - the premise that it did things the right way. That it was not a football factory where only wins and losses determined success. Every major college football program tries to send that message, but Penn State built its brand on it. Paterno's ''Grand Experiment'' was about winning with integrity, graduating players and sending men into the world ready to succeed in life, not just football." http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/penn-state-punishment-jerry-sandusky-sex-abuse-scandal-072312

 

Turns out Paterno and others didn't live by their own "code" and should be shamed and tarnished for many years to come. While it was that sick scum bag which committed these heinous acts, Paterno and others deserve all the negative press against them, because they protected their football program and this pedophile, instead of doing the right thing by protecting the victims, who happened to be little kids.

 

I disagree that the current students are being punished. They have to live with the fallout but they weren't targeted for punishment. And while I sympathize with their situation, it's only a sad thing. It's far from tragic.

 

In arriving at my point of view, I asked myself if Paterno, Spanier, and others could enable a pedophile then what enabled them? The answer is obvious. And that's what's being punished. As it had to be.

 

To anyone that would simply say that it's a criminal matter and that all the principals are either being prosecuted, in jail, or dead I say how do we punish what enabled the problem in the first place? I've yet to get an honest answer to that very simple question.

[Mr. WEO]

he was clearly pointing out the SEC is the top dog and that no one else matters... that said penn state might not be an elite program but they were definitely an upper echelon program that 95% of teams would have traded records/bowl success with.

You're right NoSaint. The Pac-12 is certainly not irrelevant. The Big 10 is full of teams who will continue to struggle to get into a national title game for the foreseeable future (Michigan, OSU, Penn State).

[NoSaint]

I disagree that the current students are being punished. They have to live with the fallout but they weren't targeted for punishment. And while I sympathize with their situation, it's only a sad thing. It's far from tragic.

 

In arriving at my point of view, I asked myself if Paterno, Spanier, and others could enable a pedophile then what enabled them? The answer is obvious. And that's what's being punished. As it had to be.

 

To anyone that would simply say that it's a criminal matter and that all the principals are either being prosecuted, in jail, or dead I say how do we punish what enabled the problem in the first place? I've yet to get an honest answer to that very simple question.

 

we very often do not punish what "enables the problem" and instead learn from mistakes and refine policies and practices to help prevent them in the future.

[truth on hold]

Agreed. This IS a "death penalty" for the program, even though they're not calling it one.

 

BA

Seems like a lot of college f ball analysts are focusing on the scholarship ban. I'll be first to concede idk key drivers of a successful college program, so I'll take their word on it. I think it reduces their scholarship total by something like 20 (85 to 65?). Which translates to loss of several starters, givin them no chance to compete at the D1 level. And it will require at least a decade to recover from.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack

[NoSaint]

Seems like a lot of college f ball analysts are focusing on the scholarship ban. I'll be first to concede idk key drivers of a successful college program, so I'll take their word on it. I think it reduces their scholarship total by something like 20 (85 to 65?). Which translates to loss of several starters, givin them no chance to compete at the D1 level. And it will require at least a decade to recover from.

 

beyond that, no top tier athlete will want to sign on for a team thats hamstrung. not only will they have fewer to offer, they wont get the quality out of the ones they do sign, unless they nail some lucky guys that outshine what is expected or happen to be just die hard penn state fanatics.

 

if im a heisman candidate future nfl type talent, i dont consider a school that cant win bowl games, compete for championships, or put the best of the best on the field around me. obviously not 100% rule, but generally they will be picking from a less talented pool and have less shots to find the diamonds in the rough.

Edited July 23, 2012 by NoSaint

[silvermike]

It's extremely difficult to meaningfully punish the program without hurting innocents. The kids there now are being given the opportunity to flee away, which is at least a start to protect them, but it's still a major disruption from a crime they're innocent of.

 

Would there be some way to tear the football program away from the university altogether, and have it run by the NCAA, with any revenues going to a fund for abuse victims? Play a schedule of all road games; in jerseys with a generic NCAA logo, etc. If we don't want to take the team away from the players, we can at least take it away from Penn St.

[truth on hold]

@PS Yeah I hear ya. At least in USCs case it was only recruiting (which everyone is suspected of bending rules anyway). PSU is about the most shameless and disgraceful act short of murder, amplified by a cover up involving the most seniors admins and highest profile coach ! This is Chicago black socks stuff in terms of durability They'll be talking about this decades from now. As a college athlete would you elect to be part of this ? Man I gotta say I feel for a lot of the kids there. Supposed to be one of the best times of their lives, now this frames it. Anticipated proud calls from parents must be fairly somber and somewhat uncomfortable instead.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack

[Ramius]

Oh come on; they'll be back in a bowl game in 2016. It will be like this never happened. This punishment was more appropriate for what went on at Miami than for what went on at PSU.

 

Laughable post. This is crushing to penn st. We'll probably have an 8-team playoff before penn state is relevant again. It'll be at least 5-10 years before they are competitive enough to threaten bowl games, more than (if ever) that for big time bowl games.

 

Consider the following:

 

1. After this season, depending on how many players leave, Penn state is looking at minimum of 3-5 seasons where they will claw and scratch to win 2-3 games. They are going to field a roster of 2 star recruits, with a scattering of 3 star players mixed in. Their talent level will be at that of a MAC team. No player with NFL aspirations is going near that program for the near future.

 

2. They will have no depth. The 20 scholarship ban takes them to a 1-AA scholarship level (in terms of numbers) team. It eliminates an entire tier of scholarship players off of the depth chart. Think of this. If you're a 2-star player, are you going to want to go to a Temple type school where you can start and play and win, or a penn state where you're going to physically get your ass kicked for 8 games per year?

 

3. Even when the bowl ban is lifted, you think big time recruits are all of a sudden going to flock back to happy valley? hell no. You think a 4-star QB is gonna go to a school where he's surrounded by 2-star talent? No way. It'll take years to build up the talent level even when they get past the sanctions.

 

4. Unlike USC, penn state CAN't recruit nationally. USC can grab players from anywhere in the country. Penn st can't. They're limited to PA, the northeast, and some of the mid atlantic. They can't simply walk into FL, CA, or TX and get who they want like USC/UT/florida schools can. Not to mention that other teams in the area are going to expand recruiting lines, especially 'Cuse and Pitt who can now use moving to the ACC to their advantage.

 

This punishment is just as bad as the death penalty, and completely warranted. Penn state isn't going to be relevant anytime soon.

[K-9]

we very often do not punish what "enables the problem" and instead learn from mistakes and refine policies and practices to help prevent them in the future.

 

True. But you'll have to pardon me if I disagree that this is one of those problems that should go unpunished. I seriously doubt that a mechanism so powerful it can cause three otherwise honest men in positions of power to conspire to coverup and enable a pedophile would be reformed in the face of a few "refinements" and that successors would otherwise simply "learn from those mistakes."

 

More than anything, PSU needs to reestablish the public trust simply to fulfill its charter if nothing else. It's impossible to do that with platitudes. It would be the height of arrogance for them to think a simple "we learned our lesson from this so you can trust us going forward" would suffice. That might play with the majority in State College but it would have failed miserably anywhere else. A very real, tangible punishment was needed here and that's why it was imposed.

[NoSaint]

Laughable post. This is crushing to penn st. We'll probably have an 8-team playoff before penn state is relevant again. It'll be at least 5-10 years before they are competitive enough to threaten bowl games, more than (if ever) that for big time bowl games.

 

Consider the following:

 

1. After this season, depending on how many players leave, Penn state is looking at minimum of 3-5 seasons where they will claw and scratch to win 2-3 games. They are going to field a roster of 2 star recruits, with a scattering of 3 star players mixed in. Their talent level will be at that of a MAC team. No player with NFL aspirations is going near that program for the near future.

 

2. They will have no depth. The 20 scholarship ban takes them to a 1-AA scholarship level (in terms of numbers) team. It eliminates an entire tier of scholarship players off of the depth chart. Think of this. If you're a 2-star player, are you going to want to go to a Temple type school where you can start and play and win, or a penn state where you're going to physically get your ass kicked for 8 games per year?

 

3. Even when the bowl ban is lifted, you think big time recruits are all of a sudden going to flock back to happy valley? hell no. You think a 4-star QB is gonna go to a school where he's surrounded by 2-star talent? No way. It'll take years to build up the talent level even when they get past the sanctions.

 

4. Unlike USC, penn state CAN't recruit nationally. USC can grab players from anywhere in the country. Penn st can't. They're limited to PA, the northeast, and some of the mid atlantic. They can't simply walk into FL, CA, or TX and get who they want like USC/UT/florida schools can. Not to mention that other teams in the area are going to expand recruiting lines, especially 'Cuse and Pitt who can now use moving to the ACC to their advantage.

 

This punishment is just as bad as the death penalty, and completely warranted. Penn state isn't going to be relevant anytime soon.

 

 

bingo - at the end of the 4 years, they will be like an expansion team. if they maintain a .500 kind of record, it will be a miracle of great coaching, and some serious luck.

[Ramius]

bingo - at the end of the 4 years, they will be like an expansion team. if they maintain a .500 kind of record, it will be a miracle of great coaching, and some serious luck.

 

In all honesty, i see them struggling to win a single big 10 game during each season.