Brad Smith..Why is his spot supposedly safe?

[PromoTheRobot]

How soon we forget about our putrid 3rd down efficiency before Smith. I don't care how boring our un-sexy it is. Keeping a drive alive 75% of the time is pure gold.

 

PTR

[chris heff]

Brad Smith was practically automatic on 3rd downs. If you don't think that is worth something, then I don't know what to think.

 

PTR

 

But couldn't Young fill that role, with the added threat of being able to pass?

[Optometric Insight]

But couldn't Young fill that role, with the added threat of being able to pass?

I don't see why he couldn't. But he doesn't save a roster spot.

 

I don't see why people are wanting to cut this guy because the coaches didn't use him enough in the wildcat due to the extremely short offseason and the injuries at WR. He was a pretty decent WR and got the Top play in the AFC East last.

 

All in all, you can't cut players after one year, especially when that one year was tough for incoming free agents. Should we cut Mario and Anderson if they don't perform well so we can sign Andy and Jairus?

[Captain Hindsight]

But couldn't Young fill that role, with the added threat of being able to pass?

When has VY ever been an inside runner?

[NoSaint]

I feel like most of the people that are fiercely anti-smith haven't watched much of his career. He didn't have a bad season as is - factor in he didn't join til august and had to learn qb roles, our rushing packages and was thrown in heavily at wideout.... If not for the word wildcat he would get a lot more respect around here.

[Chandler#81]

1342962145[/url]' post='2510248']

Brad Smith was practically automatic on 3rd downs. If you don't think that is worth something, then I don't know what to think.

 

PTR

 

Just when I thought there was no hope, finally someone responds who actually watched the games and has memory recall. Thanks, PTR!

Without having any team activities until just before training camp opened last year, the Bills wildcat was nearly impossible to stop in the early games. 1st Downs were a given with Smith in this formation on 3rd down. Once the OL & WR injuries started happening, Chan scrapped the package and moved BS to WR. He's freely admitted as such ad nauseum. Evidently, there's a lot of folks who think Gailey is just plain lying about this. Adding the 'NFL wildcat guru' to the coaching staff this off season means BS is staying and the package will be re-instated full time.

As for memory recall issues, I recommend a DVR. Watch the first half games again and it will all come back to you. Hopefully, it will lessen threads like this in the future.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Chandler#81
Typo

[Hapless Bills Fan]

But couldn't Young fill that role, with the added threat of being able to pass?

 

Perhaps, eventually. But right now, Vince Young's job is to compete for the role of backup quarterback, meaning he needs to learn how to run the main offense.

 

The focus should rightfully be on giving him the best possible shot at successfully competing for that role, not dividing his attention between learning the wildcat and the main offense - try to learn one role well not two roles poorly.

 

I think there's also something to be said that you don't want your backup QB having a role in the game until he has to play, especially a role that involves running and being tackled as an integral part. What if VY tore out his knee on a 3rd down wildcat (avert), and Fitz was taken out with a concussion on the next play (avert avert avert)?

 

The point about VY not being an inside runner is also germaine: 1) hasn't been to date 2) even if he could be, raises the likelihood of injury (see above)

 

Just when I thought there was no hope, finally someone responds who actually watched the games and has memory recall. Thanks, PTR!

Without having any team activities until just before training camp opened last year, the Bills wildcat was nearly impossible to stop in the early games. 1st Downs were a given with Smith in this formation on 3rd down. Once the OL & WR injuries started happening, Chan scrapped the package and moved BR to WR.....BR is staying and the package will be re-instated full time.

 

Not disagreeing with what you say but who is "BR"?

 

I don't understand why Brad Smith is destined to be the #3 QB.

 

http://www.nfl.com/n...ills-backup-job

 

They hardly used the Wildcat last year and I think Vince Young could run it just as well and maybe better than Smith.

 

Please someone tell me what I am missing???

 

The missing piece in all this is Chix and Nailey are the ones running the show, and they are plainly not ready to stuff the Wildcat yet, or they wouldn't have hired its guru, Lee.

You may think VY could run it as well as Smith, but that's plainly not what Gailey has said, explicitly and succinctly several times.

 

It would be a totally new role for him so there's no evidence either way, except that as noted by others, he's never been known as an inside runner.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Hopeful

[Offside Number 76]

When has VY ever been an inside runner?

 

He scored a pretty important touchdown on a run that started inside and moved to the outside. Any Texas or USC fan will tell you all about it.

 

That said, I still can't stand the wildcat, no matter who is under center. It's a completely stupid proposition when teams don't throw out of the formation. Just direct snap to the running back and get on with it.

[Hplarrm]

Reasons for keeping Smith

 

1. He is a vet player who simply has shown the ability to play an unusal number and combination of positionspositions and be judged good enough by coaching professionals and the marketplace to be good enough to even merit a role as a starter at some of them. Sure, argue against him if you want claiming he sucks, but the simple facts are he was judged the Bill best capable of starting 5 games last year (mostly as a WR). Even if you want to argue that this was not due to Smith being an accomplished WR (he has not been in his 7 year career) but he was the best the Bills could do after we got rid of perennial NON-#1 Lee Evans. This off-season the Bills have not devoted the resources to acquire a good bet to merit the #2 WR posirion and join Stevie Johnson as a starting WR. Is Smith a great WR? nope. Is he even an adequate #2. Nope.

 

However, might he like last year end up being the best option for the Bills at #2 WR? We hope not, but he easily might be. One hopes Graham may prove to be a solid player (the Bills traded up for him like they seemingly hope he will be). One hope that Easley will suddenly prove to be a good plan B if Graham happens to play like the rookie he is. One hopes that if hopes fail and both A and B do not work that Donald Jones will prove to be the player we have as a starter at WR on our depth chart (maybe this is actually plan A).

 

However, it does not take much of a football brain th envision that the answer to the question which led this thread is that it is easy to imagine a world in which due to injuries and/failure to perform like a talented vet happens to the rookie Graham, the oft-injured Easley, the yet to perform in the real world Jones, or the young talented Nelson (we need chemistry with Fitzy to be the wildcard here) that the best the Bills can do at #2 WR is Smith.

 

Doubtful, he will be good enough, but pretty clearly the plan D or E that might be the best Gailey can do.

 

2. Most amazingly and unusal to the point of being unique, this potential bad QB was productive as a kick returner as recently as season before last. You can argue if you want that he sux as a KR guy, but the facts still remain that he was second in the NFL in KR yardage in 2010 and scored 3 KR TDs. Even more outrageous, Smith routinely plays this diverse role led by his KR duties and has for the most part escaped injuries (he usually plays 15 or 16 games and 13 one year is the worst PT performance in his 7 year career. He is the ONLY player in ALL of NFL history to score TDs as a rusher, receiver, KR guy. He has even thrown a TD pass and add to that his actually completing passes as long as 45+ yards as a QB.

 

Is he a #1 level starter at QB? NOPE! Does he preaent a credible threat that he MIGHT throw a nice pass on any given play unless your CBs and safties play back rather than pinch the line against the almost certainty he will run? Yep! You gotta be nuts to be a DC that does not at least play against the possibility that Smith will hit an uncovered receiver for a big play if you decide to instead pinch the line against his likely run. The main problem we had with the Wildcat last year was that the O was not productive enough to give us enough chances to use it. Smith, despite heavy reliance on him as a KR by the Jets in 2010 and by us as a WR last year made no fumbles for us last year and only one despite his productivity as a KR guy in 2010.

 

I mean be honest and how many disaster QBs contribute to his team by being credited with 2 ST tackles. This is why the market rewarded him with the huge contract he earned from the Bills. Is Smith god's gift to football? NOPE! However, is his flexibility and producriviry a gift which can be easily refused by an HC/OC,DC, and STC. NOPE to that as well.

 

3. In addition to being not a bad depth player (plan B at KR, plan C at QB, plan B-D at WR depending how good his teammates prove to be, and even as a kamikaze tackler on ST) he also has shown in terms of real world production (#2 in the NFL in return yardage in 2010, same amount of receptions for slightly more yards overall than the guy who is a starting WR on our depth chart, an HC would really need to ignore a lot of real world performsnce by him to cut him.

 

While he is NOT the starter you want to rely on at any position he does provide some hope of actually making his team more prodctuve at a number of particular positions. I am hopeful that he will be the potential threat which Gailey employs in order to make our O such a threat he makes standard plays work better. My guess is that at some point this season we see Brad Smith attempt (and likely complete) a pass to an uncovered Fitzpatrick or Moorman.

 

Think about what you do as a DC besides hope your field general burns a TO when VY and Brad Smith both take the field on a 3rd and intermediate distance. If Smith lines up as the Wildcat QB but then goes in motion. Do you send an LB with him out wide and thus face a potential run by VY on a direct snap with a hole in your run D or instead do you let Brad Smith go wide alone as you keep your LBs in to guard against the likely run.

 

Given his real world production in a number of roles as an NFL player and given his demonstrated ability to appear in 15 or all 16 games in a season despite his use in kamikaze ST roles AND his demonstrated reliability in not fumbling much (or at all many seasons an HC would simply be showinf stupidity unless he found a productive role for Smith in his offense.

 

Given that I know Chan Gailey has forgotten more than I or most non-professionals will ever even learn about co-ordinating a successful NFL O I will am quite comfortable with the idea Smith is safe as a Bill.

 

I doubt he will be perfect, but he makes our O easily.

 

To propose there is no role for him here is merely a demonstration of how little most fans know about running an NFL O.

[hondo in seattle]

According to a new rule last year, the 3rd string QB will be "active" but not count against the team's active limit of 45 players.

 

3rd string QBs usually don't see the field. If they do, you're usually doomed anyway. So why have an active 3rd string QB who is just a QB (like Thigpen) when you can have a 3rd string QB who can actually do other things?

 

Without using up an active roster roster spot, we saw Brad Smith run the wildcat and play WR for us last year. He can also return kicks and, in a desperate need, run the offense as a conventional QB.

 

We're getting a lot of use out of a position (active 3rd string QB) that doesn't normally contribute anything at all.

 

While most teams play with 45 active players on Sunday (plus the 3rd string QB who will not play a single down), the Bills have 46 players (counting Smith) who will actually get on the field. By putting a multi-talented player like Brad Smith in the #3 position, the Bills effectively have an extra active player every week.

 

That's why his job is safe.

Edited July 22, 2012 by hondo in seattle

[bowery4]

Both of the answers above are right, good job guys.

[Meathead]

I believe that Chixley feel they have to justify his signing last year so they won't let him go.

 

its 'chuddly' and i dont think it has anything to do with justifying the signing

 

others have answered the question satisfactorily so lets just review

 

1). smith actually saves roster spots by serving in at least three possible roles

 

c). smith was incredible on third downs. they only stopped using him in that role bcuz he had to concentrate on wr after all the injuries hit

 

Ω). smiths value as a kr was severely blunted by the new kickoff rules, not bcuz he suddenly sucked at kick returning

 

█). smith and the rest of the offense didnt get a full camp/preseason to properly prepare for chans wizardry, thus the packages were basic and immature. with a full offseason they will be able to run a much more sophisticated and tailored package

 

/question

[shoretalk]

I don't understand why Brad Smith is destined to be the #3 QB.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82ab6ade/article/vince-young-tyler-thigpen-battle-for-bills-backup-job

 

They hardly used the Wildcat last year and I think Vince Young could run it just as well and maybe better than Smith. Young can run and he would be a true passing threat. Smith did next to nothing last year as a returner. I would rather we keep an extra DB that can return or a younger WR than Smith. And I would rather they trade for or grab a project QB from the waiver wire.

 

Just don't see the need to keep him and his contract. Use that money to resign Levitre and Byrd.

 

Please someone tell me what I am missing???

 

First ... I do not think he is among the untouchables on the team. If he falls flat and cannot contribute I do not see either Buddy or Chan as being emotional guys who keep players on the 53 because they were "their guy" at one time.

 

However ... the shortened preseason last year did not allow Gailey to fully install his creative offense that allegedly will make more use of Smith's position so that makes keeping him a wise decision. Also, I don't mind having him as our #3 quarterback and yes every team needs a #3 so his presence will not take away other slots on the team.

 

I am not a fan of the Miami style Wild Cat but if Smith can get us a first down on half the third down situations we are in that makes him worth keeping even if those are only short yardage gains. Plus if we cut him we know REX will pick him right back up and he'll haunt us forever haha.

 

We have better kick and punt returners (At least from what he showed us last year.) but he does add that special team diversity to his resume.

 

This year the Bills will be cutting players who other teams will sign immediately and the naysayers will scream that we shouldn't have cut them. There will be players cut that Buddy drafted or signed but the reason is we have a quality team finally. So, if Brad doesn't work hard and is outplayed ... he could be on that list of former Bills too.

 

I just can't wait for the season to see our D and then to watch FITZ work without the pressure of always being behind and always knowing that the other team would control the ball for 8-10 minutes ... this is going to be an amazing year!!

 

 

GO BILLS

[biglukes]

His versatility keeps him around. Who else can play wildcat QB, backup WR, kick returner , and on the kick coverage teams. As has already been pointed out, he gives you more roster flexibility by being able to do so many different things.

[chris heff]

When has VY ever been an inside runner?

 

When was Brad Smith?

[Kelly the Dog]

Most people here that think Brad Smith is useless just flat hate the Wildcat as a formation and most of them hate it because they see it as a fad or gimmick that has run its course. I predict a lot of those same people will either become lovers of the Bills Wildcat or will begrudging say, okay, I have to admit its working, when they see it this year. I foresee this for about 5 different reasons.

As stated above, Smith on the roster saves two roster spots. That alone is reason to keep him as #3 QB.

He had a terrible year returning kicks but he's an excellent KR. We may or may not see him there this year.

Fred Jackson led all RBs in the league with a 5.5 ypc. I argued that Spiller's 5.2 maybe more impressive since most of his carries came from an inferior line. Smith averaged 4.2 ypc when most of his carries were on short yardage plays, which is extraordinary. 4.2 is a very good average when you're running on first and ten let alone 3rd and 2.

Smith is also good on the punt team and KO team.

I really have no idea why anyone would even question his value to the team. And I think most of his detractors are going to love him.

 

[chris heff]

Reasons for keeping Smith

 

1. He is a vet player who simply has shown the ability to play an unusal number and combination of positionspositions and be judged good enough by coaching professionals and the marketplace to be good enough to even merit a role as a starter at some of them. Sure, argue against him if you want claiming he sucks, but the simple facts are he was judged the Bill best capable of starting 5 games last year (mostly as a WR). Even if you want to argue that this was not due to Smith being an accomplished WR (he has not been in his 7 year career) but he was the best the Bills could do after we got rid of perennial NON-#1 Lee Evans. This off-season the Bills have not devoted the resources to acquire a good bet to merit the #2 WR posirion and join Stevie Johnson as a starting WR. Is Smith a great WR? nope. Is he even an adequate #2. Nope.

 

However, might he like last year end up being the best option for the Bills at #2 WR? We hope not, but he easily might be. One hopes Graham may prove to be a solid player (the Bills traded up for him like they seemingly hope he will be). One hope that Easley will suddenly prove to be a good plan B if Graham happens to play like the rookie he is. One hopes that if hopes fail and both A and B do not work that Donald Jones will prove to be the player we have as a starter at WR on our depth chart (maybe this is actually plan A).

 

However, it does not take much of a football brain th envision that the answer to the question which led this thread is that it is easy to imagine a world in which due to injuries and/failure to perform like a talented vet happens to the rookie Graham, the oft-injured Easley, the yet to perform in the real world Jones, or the young talented Nelson (we need chemistry with Fitzy to be the wildcard here) that the best the Bills can do at #2 WR is Smith.

 

Doubtful, he will be good enough, but pretty clearly the plan D or E that might be the best Gailey can do.

 

2. Most amazingly and unusal to the point of being unique, this potential bad QB was productive as a kick returner as recently as season before last. You can argue if you want that he sux as a KR guy, but the facts still remain that he was second in the NFL in KR yardage in 2010 and scored 3 KR TDs. Even more outrageous, Smith routinely plays this diverse role led by his KR duties and has for the most part escaped injuries (he usually plays 15 or 16 games and 13 one year is the worst PT performance in his 7 year career. He is the ONLY player in ALL of NFL history to score TDs as a rusher, receiver, KR guy. He has even thrown a TD pass and add to that his actually completing passes as long as 45+ yards as a QB.

 

Is he a #1 level starter at QB? NOPE! Does he preaent a credible threat that he MIGHT throw a nice pass on any given play unless your CBs and safties play back rather than pinch the line against the almost certainty he will run? Yep! You gotta be nuts to be a DC that does not at least play against the possibility that Smith will hit an uncovered receiver for a big play if you decide to instead pinch the line against his likely run. The main problem we had with the Wildcat last year was that the O was not productive enough to give us enough chances to use it. Smith, despite heavy reliance on him as a KR by the Jets in 2010 and by us as a WR last year made no fumbles for us last year and only one despite his productivity as a KR guy in 2010.

 

I mean be honest and how many disaster QBs contribute to his team by being credited with 2 ST tackles. This is why the market rewarded him with the huge contract he earned from the Bills. Is Smith god's gift to football? NOPE! However, is his flexibility and producriviry a gift which can be easily refused by an HC/OC,DC, and STC. NOPE to that as well.

 

3. In addition to being not a bad depth player (plan B at KR, plan C at QB, plan B-D at WR depending how good his teammates prove to be, and even as a kamikaze tackler on ST) he also has shown in terms of real world production (#2 in the NFL in return yardage in 2010, same amount of receptions for slightly more yards overall than the guy who is a starting WR on our depth chart, an HC would really need to ignore a lot of real world performsnce by him to cut him.

 

While he is NOT the starter you want to rely on at any position he does provide some hope of actually making his team more prodctuve at a number of particular positions. I am hopeful that he will be the potential threat which Gailey employs in order to make our O such a threat he makes standard plays work better. My guess is that at some point this season we see Brad Smith attempt (and likely complete) a pass to an uncovered Fitzpatrick or Moorman.

 

Think about what you do as a DC besides hope your field general burns a TO when VY and Brad Smith both take the field on a 3rd and intermediate distance. If Smith lines up as the Wildcat QB but then goes in motion. Do you send an LB with him out wide and thus face a potential run by VY on a direct snap with a hole in your run D or instead do you let Brad Smith go wide alone as you keep your LBs in to guard against the likely run.

 

Given his real world production in a number of roles as an NFL player and given his demonstrated ability to appear in 15 or all 16 games in a season despite his use in kamikaze ST roles AND his demonstrated reliability in not fumbling much (or at all many seasons an HC would simply be showinf stupidity unless he found a productive role for Smith in his offense.

 

Given that I know Chan Gailey has forgotten more than I or most non-professionals will ever even learn about co-ordinating a successful NFL O I will am quite comfortable with the idea Smith is safe as a Bill.

 

I doubt he will be perfect, but he makes our O easily.

 

To propose there is no role for him here is merely a demonstration of how little most fans know about running an NFL O.

 

Ok, I'm convinced. I was just stirring the pot.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I believe that Chixley feel they have to justify his signing last year so they won't let him go.

 

I agree with everything you wrote and on top of all that, there are a lot of good O and D linemen I'd like for the Bills to hold onto.

 

Then you add the fact that some teams don't even carry a 3rd quarterback.

 

Plus Smith makes about $3.8 million for this year.

I'd shed no tears if the guy was cut but I don't think they'll do it this year.

 

Best case scenario: He has a great season and proves why they were right to keep him.

Let me re-visit this topic.

 

I am not personally "fiercely anti-Smith."

 

Nor am I anti-wildcat.

 

I will state that it's a totally legitimate debate as to whether he brought anything to the team last year… and so I question how much he will bring this year.

 

I would certainly hope he makes a bigger impact than last year's disappointing showing.

 

And btw, I do not consider the non offseason to be a legitimate excuse as to why he wasn't used more effectively. We're talking about a ridiculously small package of plays here. Run, Run, Run, and the occasional pass to catch the D off guard. On the point of passing, his one pass attempt was disturbingly horrendous (horrendously disturbing?). It was hard to believe watching that wounded duck that he actually set passing records at Missouri.

 

Finally, based on his kick returns last year, he's an average returner who put up good numbers on the Jets due to their outstanding return team blocking.

 

As I stated, I'm willing to give him another chance but I sure hope his biggest contribution to the team is more than just saving roster spots on game day.

 

 

[metzelaars_lives]

Brad Smith was practically automatic on 3rd downs. If you don't think that is worth something, then I don't know what to think.

 

PTR

 

I agree completely. One thing that baffled me about last year was that through the first 6-7 games they were using the wildcat consistently and it WAS WORKING. He didn't break any big gains, but the entire defense knew what he was doing and he still gained 3, 4, 5 yards every single time, which on 3rd down is invaluable. It was almost fool proof. He averaged 4.4 yards a carry last year. And you can say, well Freddie and CJ both averaged more than that, what's the point of keeping him? Well, not if they were directly snapped the ball and the whole defense knew it was coming, they wouldn't. And then inexplicably, they completely abandoned it halfway through the season. And of course, people are like, "he sucks, he's useless, the wildcat's useless" and it makes me wonder how close a lot of you are actually watching these games. THE WILDCAT WORKS. Not in the sense that it's gonna catch people offguard anymore, but somehow it's a surefire way to pick up a few yards and pretty much never lose yardage. Especially with a Brad Smith back there. And they're gonna use it again this year too so deal with it. Metz

[San Jose Bills Fan]

edit: The Jets were 4th in the league in kickoff returns last year at 26.3 yards per return.

 

The previous year with Brad Smith the Jets were 3rd in the league in kickoff returns at 25.2.

 

So the Jets yards per kickoff return improved after Brad Smith left for Buffalo, FWIW.