truth on hold Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) So you are for confiscation then. And how would you go about this? Ok Jim here you go: - ban gun of all kinds - for home defense purposes allow people to use tazers but require they don't look like guns so they can't be used to conceal them - look to countries that went thru sweeping gun law changes like uk and Australia for implementation guidelines - but unlike those island countries we have physical borders with Mexico and canada we need to account for. Use the billions we'd save every year in reduced crime prevention and other public costs of (court, prison, hospital, etc) to strengthen our border controls. Which would be hugely beneficial to addressing border related terror and illegal immigration threats too. This is a starting point for discussion of course, details of which to be worked out over some defined period in congress. If there's a will there's a way. This could get done. Edited August 1, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Ok Jim here you go: - ban gun of all kinds - for home defense purposes allow people to use tazers but require they don't look like guns so they can't be used to conceal them - look to countries that went thru sweeping gun law changes like uk and Australia for implementation guidelines - but unlike those island countries we have physical borders with Mexico and canada we need to account for. Use the billions we'd save every year in reduced crime prevention and other public costs of (court, prison, hospital, etc) to strengthen our border controls. Which would be hugely beneficial to addressing border related terror and illegal immigration threats too. This is a starting point for discussion of course, details of which to be worked out over some defined period in congress. If there's a will there's a way. This could get done. Yeah. There's a flood of guns from Canada. What an effing idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Ok Jim here you go: - ban gun of all kinds - for home defense purposes allow people to use tazers but require they don't look like guns so they can't be used to conceal them - look to countries that went thru sweeping gun law changes like uk and Australia for implementation guidelines - but unlike those island countries we have physical borders with Mexico and canada we need to account for. Use the billions we'd save every year in reduced crime prevention and other public costs of (court, prison, hospital, etc) to strengthen our border controls. Which would be hugely beneficial to addressing border related terror and illegal immigration threats too. This is a starting point for discussion of course, details of which to be worked out over some defined period in congress. If there's a will there's a way. This could get done. No I specifically asked about confiscation. How do we eliminate all the guns in this country? I want exact details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Ok Jim here you go: - ban gun of all kinds - for home defense purposes allow people to use tazers but require they don't look like guns so they can't be used to conceal them - look to countries that went thru sweeping gun law changes like uk and Australia for implementation guidelines - but unlike those island countries we have physical borders with Mexico and canada we need to account for. Use the billions we'd save every year in reduced crime prevention and other public costs of (court, prison, hospital, etc) to strengthen our border controls. Which would be hugely beneficial to addressing border related terror and illegal immigration threats too. This is a starting point for discussion of course, details of which to be worked out over some defined period in congress. If there's a will there's a way. This could get done. So, a country with no guns has no murders. http://news.yahoo.com/chinese-teen-kills-eight-knife-attack-reports-102629246.html?_esi=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 So, a country with no guns has no murders. http://news.yahoo.com/chinese-teen-kills-eight-knife-attack-reports-102629246.html?_esi=1 No. It can have more murders. Just slow painful ones by rampaging axe murderers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 So, a country with no guns has no murders. http://news.yahoo.com/chinese-teen-kills-eight-knife-attack-reports-102629246.html?_esi=1 That's just a silly statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 That's just a silly statement No more silly than talking about outlawing guns to stop murderers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 No more silly than talking about outlawing guns to stop murderers. I don't think eliminating guns will stop murders completely, but I also don't think discussion about anything should be off limits. I may be wrong, but it sounded like you were insinuating that it shouldn't even be discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I don't think eliminating guns will stop murders completely, but I also don't think discussion about anything should be off limits. I may be wrong, but it sounded like you were insinuating that it shouldn't even be discussed. It shouldn't. Evil exists, and I need to be able to protect myself, my family and my friends from it. And before you get started on the assault weapons argument, type of gun and capacity are irrelevant. Ban the bad ones and the bad guys will use whatever is available until all guns "need" to be banned. Check out the current crime rates in Australia, they banned all firearms and the crime rate soared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 It shouldn't. Evil exists, and I need to be able to protect myself, my family and my friends from it. And before you get started on the assault weapons argument, type of gun and capacity are irrelevant. Ban the bad ones and the bad guys will use whatever is available until all guns "need" to be banned. Check out the current crime rates in Australia, they banned all firearms and the crime rate soared. I'm not getting on any argument. I just think we have the need for discussion on the matter- without either side having a knee-jerk reaction. If we get the that point, maybe the NRA could chime in as to where a line can be reasonably drawn as to what a citizen can own, instead of having to be defensive about the issue. That would be more helpful than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Should my car be banned because a drunk drove his car last night and killed someone ? My truck has the potential to run over a crowd of people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Should my car be banned because a drunk drove his car last night and killed someone ? My truck has the potential to run over a crowd of people Is anyone making that argument, or are you playing politics by putting words in their mouths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I'm not getting on any argument. I just think we have the need for discussion on the matter- without either side having a knee-jerk reaction. If we get the that point, maybe the NRA could chime in as to where a line can be reasonably drawn as to what a citizen can own, instead of having to be defensive about the issue. That would be more helpful than anything. You are missing the point, there is no reasonable line, every time you ban a gun and another maniac goes on a rampage whatever weapon he used will be the next firearm banned, until all firearms are banned(like in China) and some turd pulls a knife, and I can't even shoot him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Is anyone making that argument, or are you playing politics by putting words in their mouths? no one has made that argument Trying to prove a point of why should responsible law abiding citizens have things taken away because the actions of criminals You are missing the point, there is no reasonable line, every time you ban a gun and another maniac goes on a rampage whatever weapon he used will be the next firearm banned, until all firearms are banned(like in China) and some turd pulls a knife, and I can't even shoot him! this. Guns are out there. Period. The criminals will ALWAYS find weapons to use on victims. Why should law abiding citizens not be allowed to defend themselves and family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) You are missing the point, there is no reasonable line, every time you ban a gun and another maniac goes on a rampage whatever weapon he used will be the next firearm banned, until all firearms are banned(like in China) and some turd pulls a knife, and I can't even shoot him! There has to be a reasonable line- I consider you to be very reasonable and I don't see you arguing to have a rocket launcher to protect yourself, nor do I see the NRA arguing that they should be legal to own. no one has made that argument Trying to prove a point of why should responsible law abiding citizens have things taken away because the actions of criminals this. Guns are out there. Period. The criminals will ALWAYS find weapons to use on victims. Why should law abiding citizens not be allowed to defend themselves and family That comment was about your statement about taking your truck away- nobody argues stuff like that. Although, I am not quite sure I feel safe with you driving out there Edited August 3, 2012 by Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Ok Jim here you go: - ban gun of all kinds - for home defense purposes allow people to use tazers but require they don't look like guns so they can't be used to conceal them - look to countries that went thru sweeping gun law changes like uk and Australia for implementation guidelines - but unlike those island countries we have physical borders with Mexico and canada we need to account for. Use the billions we'd save every year in reduced crime prevention and other public costs of (court, prison, hospital, etc) to strengthen our border controls. Which would be hugely beneficial to addressing border related terror and illegal immigration threats too. This is a starting point for discussion of course, details of which to be worked out over some defined period in congress. If there's a will there's a way. This could get done. Yeah we need to copy Australia. Just you, not me. My link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) Yeah we need to copy Australia. Just you, not me. My link Hey Jim, you post a video over 10 years old, with a short measurement window, as the final definitive test? Clearly you're just proving my earlier point that gun worshippers have no interest in any kind of legit debate that could lead to removing their guns. Like why not post this more recent date I found on the land down under ? Over the past 18 years (1 July 1989 to 30 June 2007), the rate* of homicide incidents decreased from 1.9 in 1990-91 and 1992-93 to the second-lowest recorded rate, of 1.3, in 2006-07. *rate per 100,000 population. The percentage of homicides committed with a firearm continued a declining trend which began in 1969. In 2003, fewer than 16% of homicides involved firearms. The figure was similar in 2002 and 2001, down from a high of 44% in 1968. http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.aspx And like I said we can look to countries who dramatically toghtened their gun laws for guidance, positive and negative. Sounds like australia could have phased it in better. So let's learn from them and do better. How about 2 phases: year 1 rifles, year 2 everything else ? Give owners a window of protection while the bad guys are being disarmed. Or how about giving non-lethal tazer vouchers for households turning in guns? Just some ideas and a suggested framework Jim,, not claiming all the answers, impossible for me to have them (why of course you keep demanding every last detail, just a transparent maneuver to try and undermine the process from the start). Edited August 4, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Hey Jim, you post a video over 10 years old, with a short measurement window, as the final definitive test? Clearly you're just proving my earlier point that gun worshippers have no interest in any kind of legit debate that could lead to removing their guns. Like why not post this more recent date I found on the land down under ? Over the past 18 years (1 July 1989 to 30 June 2007), the rate* of homicide incidents decreased from 1.9 in 1990-91 and 1992-93 to the second-lowest recorded rate, of 1.3, in 2006-07. *rate per 100,000 population. The percentage of homicides committed with a firearm continued a declining trend which began in 1969. In 2003, fewer than 16% of homicides involved firearms. The figure was similar in 2002 and 2001, down from a high of 44% in 1968. http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.aspx And like I said we can look to countries who dramatically toghtened their gun laws for guidance, positive and negative. Sounds like australia could have phased it in better. So let's learn from them and do better. How about 2 phases: year 1 rifles, year 2 everything else ? Give owners a window of protection while the bad guys are being disarmed. Or how about giving non-lethal tazer vouchers for households turning in guns? Just some ideas and a suggested framework Jim,, not claiming all the answers, impossible for me to have them (why of course you keep demanding every last detail, just a transparent maneuver to try and undermine the process from the start). So, you are against all hunting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 The funny thing about guns is that I don't need to debate you. I just need to tell you I won't surrender them under any circumstances, leave, and then let you come to any conclusion you'd like. If you're dumb enough to conclude that you should take them from me, come try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 The funny thing about guns is that I don't need to debate you. I just need to tell you I won't surrender them under any circumstances, leave, and then let you come to any conclusion you'd like. If you're dumb enough to conclude that you should take them from me, come try. The funnier thing is that I highly doubt that is ian actual indication of your attitude- most gun owners are pretty sensible, If gun owners really had that attitude, it would be much more of a problem. While the people who are against guns are wrong in many aspects of their argument, their fears are very real and should be discussed. There are some people who shouldn't own them or have easy access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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