Dark Knight Rises - Midnight Screening Roll-Call

[ajzepp]

Zod will be in this movie, so there is in fact an equal on Earth. I guess that actually means the odds are stacked against him if it's like Superman 2 where Zod had his two cronies.

 

Not only that, but Michael Shannon will be playing him. He's on par with Tom Hardy in terms of his acting chops, just isn't quite as far along as Hardy in terms of exposure yet. He has a ton of range and he can be intimidating as all hell. I have no doubt his portrayal of Zod will steal the show...maybe not to the degree that Ledger did with Joker, but this will be a villain that leaves an impression as you're leaving the theater.

 

Saw TDKR at the matinee yesterday, and freaking loved it. I watched BB and TDK on Saturday to prepare, and really glad I did -- the story was fresh so there was no "catching up."

 

Aside from the obligatory suspension of reality that is necessary when watching any superhero movie, I couldn't have been more pleased. Yes, there are always things that bug me, but I choose to not let them interfere with my enjoyment of the film.

 

This one had me guessing throughout, and yes, I'm a sucker for the "blue skies" ending. Well done, Nolan.

 

Nice...I'm going to have a Batman marathon once this one is out on video in a few months...and I totally agree, the issues with the film were small enough for me that they didn't detract from my enjoyment.

[Fezmid]

Fez, I have to take issue with your first point about how all of the encounters with Bane were face to face and Batman didn't use is environment. He was tricked into the first fight, being locked in that sewer area with Bane.

That wasn't actually my point - I cut and pasted it from the review AJ posted.

 

But I still do think the fights were overall kind of dull - punch, punch, punch... When that wasn't working, what'd he do? Punch, punch, punch... It's not a deal breaker on the movie, just something that I didn't think was done very well when I was watching it.

[shrader]

That wasn't actually my point - I cut and pasted it from the review AJ posted.

 

But I still do think the fights were overall kind of dull - punch, punch, punch... When that wasn't working, what'd he do? Punch, punch, punch... It's not a deal breaker on the movie, just something that I didn't think was done very well when I was watching it.

 

Ok, well then I'll counter that guy's thoughts (I didn't take the time to read it just yet). I actually enjoyed those fights quite a bit. The first one was Batman completely unprepared and out of shape, so he gets thrashed. The second one wasn't really a situation where he can do much beyond a fight like that. He has the massive battle going on all around him, so there was very little space to take advantage of. I really enjoyed the visuals of that whole sequence with the massive cops vs. criminals brawl going on.

[Mark Vader]

I have a feeling that Nolan left the door open for a Justice League movie should "Man of Steel" prove to have the success of "Batman Begins".

They've been wanting to make a Justice League movie, but Warner Bros. keeps screwing it up. DC needs to have their own studio(as far as I know they do not have one) so they can do what Marvel does.

 

They would have more control over their product and be an outsource for Warner Bros.

 

Marvel is now owned by Disney, but they still have existing contracts with Sony(Spider-Man) & 20th Century Fox(X-Men), and since they have their own studio they have more freedom.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

My review for The Dark Knight Rises...Spoilers included.

 

http://www.entertainment-bureau.com/the-dark-knight-rises-review-reviewsday-tuesday/2579

[eball]

Ok, well then I'll counter that guy's thoughts (I didn't take the time to read it just yet). I actually enjoyed those fights quite a bit. The first one was Batman completely unprepared and out of shape, so he gets thrashed. The second one wasn't really a situation where he can do much beyond a fight like that. He has the massive battle going on all around him, so there was very little space to take advantage of. I really enjoyed the visuals of that whole sequence with the massive cops vs. criminals brawl going on.

Exactly! I felt that Batman's "instincts" were not up to par early on, and he got stronger and more instinctual as the movie progressed. I think this was completely intentional -- the guy was out of commission for eight years and it took a while for him to regain his "touch."

 

I found that Harry guy's review to be way over the top. Probably fewer than 5% of moviegoers are worried about the things he complained about.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

One plot hole that bears mentioning: After Bruce Wayne escapes the prison hole, he just shows back up in Gotham. How did he get there? Every bridge and tunnel is closed down, and there are obviously no aircraft coming in or out.

 

I realize there's suspension of disbelief, but this represents more of a logical break.

[ajzepp]

My review for The Dark Knight Rises...Spoilers included.

 

http://www.entertainment-bureau.com/the-dark-knight-rises-review-reviewsday-tuesday/2579

 

Was 4/5 your rating of the movie? If so, I would never have guessed that based on your review of it. Very well-written!

 

One plot hole that bears mentioning: After Bruce Wayne escapes the prison hole, he just shows back up in Gotham. How did he get there? Every bridge and tunnel is closed down, and there are obviously no aircraft coming in or out.

 

I realize there's suspension of disbelief, but this represents more of a logical break.

 

I actually had the same thought as I was watching it...I sort of pictured Nolan in my head as he was writing the transition scene, and then just sort of going, "ehhhh, fuggit".

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Was 4/5 your rating of the movie? If so, I would never have guessed that based on your review of it. Very well-written!

 

 

 

I actually had the same thought as I was watching it...I sort of pictured Nolan in my head as he was writing the transition scene, and then just sort of going, "ehhhh, fuggit".

 

4/5 was my rating. The number is meant to represent the movie's objective value in the realm of film, whereas the body of the text holds Nolan to his own standard of excellence. Because, let's be honest, TDKR blows most summer blockbusters out of the water. And yet I think it might be Nolan's worst effort.

 

And thanks!

[ajzepp]

4/5 was my rating. The number is meant to represent the movie's objective value in the realm of film, whereas the body of the text holds Nolan to his own standard of excellence. Because, let's be honest, TDKR blows most summer blockbusters out of the water. And yet I think it might be Nolan's worst effort.

 

And thanks!

 

Gotcha...I like that approach. Comparing the film relative to both Nolan and/our our expectations based on the previous two films, and then relative to moves and/or the summer season as a whole. Very smart!

[shrader]

One plot hole that bears mentioning: After Bruce Wayne escapes the prison hole, he just shows back up in Gotham. How did he get there? Every bridge and tunnel is closed down, and there are obviously no aircraft coming in or out.

 

I realize there's suspension of disbelief, but this represents more of a logical break.

 

Not only that, but he's got his costume and all his gear. I'd imagine he has all sorts of crazy exits to and from the cave and the city. The one thing that was never completely clear is just how far from the city Wayne Manor is. I remember a line in the Dark Knight where Harvey Dent asked if it was even within his jurisdiction.

 

My guess, he flew the Bat in during the night.

[Mark Vader]

One plot hole that bears mentioning: After Bruce Wayne escapes the prison hole, he just shows back up in Gotham. How did he get there? Every bridge and tunnel is closed down, and there are obviously no aircraft coming in or out.

 

I realize there's suspension of disbelief, but this represents more of a logical break.

Bruce Wayne is very resourceful. I'm sure he knew what to do to get back to Gotham.

 

I just don't think that the movie had enough time to show us how he got back there.

 

Otherwise the movie would have been 3 hours & 30 minutes.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Mark Vader

[boyst]

Saw it tonight. Went with a friend. She determind Al Guhls daughter was bad when she was in front of the fire with Wayne - pretty interesting but her reasoning was why else would she want Wayne gone? She barely understood Bane (it was IMAX)

 

They took those special forces trailers in the city, if you remember...so there were "ways" in the city.

 

I thought the characters were great, it really broke me down to see how well Alfred played his character even though I knew the ending already. I am anxious to see what is next and I am hoping they do not bring in Poison Ivy. Two strong female leads in a movie is doom. I have to bet Nolan has his hands on the next series - he will not want to let his first three get tarnished.

[UConn James]

I find myself agreeing almost wholly with AJ here. TDKR holds its own and is a great conclusion to this trilogy, that seems to close the arc that they created. The pissing and moaning about smallish details may well be made moot when DVD extras are available, and as when people ragged on LOST for not showing/explaining Every Little F'ing Thing I just have to shake my head about the pedantism that can't conceive that some things happen off-camera and aren't really, really important so as to add more time to an already long flick.

 

WRT the 'which was the best of the series?'... Am I alone in how I see a group of movies like this as a cumulative effort where each builds on and relies on each other rather than seeing them as seperate entities? It is all part of a whole that's simply divided by time constraints. Judging a Best in Show here is futile.

 

Now me, I'm a story guy. And what I haven't seen here is much discussion of that. Some points:

A) Do a lot of people seem to miss that our hero had been suffering with the effects of the fall and general wear'n'tear... but that unlike Bane, Bruce Wayne doesn't resort to drug use to ease his pain. Or at least, we don't see any. I was reading some commentary on IMDB that was arguing that Batman of the comics would never give up like that. Some people are arguing that the ending was so very un-Nolan-like, with the reveal at the end. I appreciated it. It leaves the door open for continuity of this awesome series, and fits into Bruce Wayne's ideal in this arc for why he created the Batman. As a symbol, as someone who will stand up and fight for right and then be able to return to the shadows when legitimacy is restored. He wanted a day when he no longer had to be the Batman. As for future films, there's awesome potential there, especially if key people remain committed and the vision isn't totally thrown out akin to a Joel Shumacher flaming neon concept pieces "Batman & Robin"/"Batman Forever." Hopefully Nolan will have some role in future projects, even if it's limited to reading a script and offering pointers. This has been such a great series, and it's sad that it goes out with such a real-life event connected to it. Just like the Joker attempted to get people to turn on each other and to create mass chaos, the coward Aurora killer is sorely mistaken.

 

I loved how they used the closing lines from Commissioner Gordon from TDK... that Batman was the hero that Gotham deserved, but not the hero that it needed. And that Harvey Dent, omitting his crimes as Two-Face, was the hero Gotham needed... (and didn't deserve(?)). The critical moment when Gotham is broken during Bane's attack was not when he bombed the stadium and other targets --- it's when he read the speech that Gordon had earlier penned and wanted to deliver... indeed that thought that the city was ready to hear and for him to make his exit because of the deceit. The city needed that archetype and when they stopped beliving in Harvey Dent and nothing was there to replace him, the will to fight back --- along with the means that Bane had taken --- was lost. Losing the will to fight is utter defeat. It was a nice storyline close to have the statue of Batman in City Hall, a tribute that this anonymous citizen (to the general public, at least) was the hero Gotham needed and deserved.

 

It runs counter to Bane's use of an 'anonymous citizen' who held the trigger for the bomb. So much hatred stemming from Ras al Ghoul, who appointed himself the arbiter of all things immoral and due for destruction. One would think that Ras's treatment of them would make his daughter and Bane hate him, rather than carry out Ras's dying mission. But, the world is a weird place.

 

In Gotham, we get a peek of Occupy Wall Street protesters' dreams. The rich are eaten and sentenced to death. The movement's leader promises to give the city back to the people whose toil makes the rich... rich. And yet his goal is not equality of opportunity or even equally of outcome --- it's a deep-seated self-loathing and the Jonestown-like usurped determination that everyone in the city are better off dead. This is what comes of trashing all means of social stability... in the words of Shakespeare, this is what happens "when envy breeds unkind division, there comes the ruin, there begins confusion"... Mr. X has money therefore he is bad! that we're seeing today in many sectors, even from our president. It's sick. Break down those core components, put the yoke of tyranny on the productive and this isn't far from what you will ultimately get. Capitalism ain't perfect, but it provides more stability for more people than anything else that's come along. Don't mean for it to become a political thread by any means, but that's my read.

 

I'm sorry if this doesn't read very well WRT organization and is a bit stream-of-consciousnes. Writing on the ipad and I'm finding that it doesn't work well for longer posts.

Edited July 26, 2012 by UConn James

[shrader]

I do wonder why people say the movie is so un-Nolan like. He makes one open to interpretation ending in Inception and now all of a sudden that's always his style? This ending was very much in tune with the entire series. Begins has and ending that is happy but with setup for the future. TDK has more of the Empire Strikes Back ending where things don't look so great. Then this one wraps it up and definitively ends the series. I see no problem with that.

[boyst]

I do wonder why people say the movie is so un-Nolan like. He makes one open to interpretation ending in Inception and now all of a sudden that's always his style? This ending was very much in tune with the entire series. Begins has and ending that is happy but with setup for the future. TDK has more of the Empire Strikes Back ending where things don't look so great. Then this one wraps it up and definitively ends the series. I see no problem with that.

I like your post, but please define your version or definition of ending of the series? I think there could be another series of 3 coming up.

[shrader]

I like your post, but please define your version or definition of ending of the series? I think there could be another series of 3 coming up.

 

Nolan and Bale have stated over and over that they're done. So yes, in terms of the story, Wayne is happy and he has passed on the torch. All of your main characters have moved on. Someone may try to do something with Blake, but at that point, it's not a Batman movie anymore without Wayne and Alfred.

[ajzepp]

I find myself agreeing almost wholly with AJ here. TDKR holds its own and is a great conclusion to this trilogy, that seems to close the arc that they created. The pissing and moaning about smallish details may well be made moot when DVD extras are available, and as when people ragged on LOST for not showing/explaining Every Little F'ing Thing I just have to shake my head about the pedantism that can't conceive that some things happen off-camera and aren't really, really important so as to add more time to an already long flick.

 

WRT the 'which was the best of the series?'... Am I alone in how I see a group of movies like this as a cumulative effort where each builds on and relies on each other rather than seeing them as seperate entities? It is all part of a whole that's simply divided by time constraints. Judging a Best in Show here is futile.

 

Now me, I'm a story guy. And what I haven't seen here is much discussion of that. Some points:

A) Do a lot of people seem to miss that our hero had been suffering with the effects of the fall and general wear'n'tear... but that unlike Bane, Bruce Wayne doesn't resort to drug use to ease his pain. Or at least, we don't see any. I was reading some commentary on IMDB that was arguing that Batman of the comics would never give up like that. Some people are arguing that the ending was so very un-Nolan-like, with the reveal at the end. I appreciated it. It leaves the door open for continuity of this awesome series, and fits into Bruce Wayne's ideal in this arc for why he created the Batman. As a symbol, as someone who will stand up and fight for right and then be able to return to the shadows when legitimacy is restored. He wanted a day when he no longer had to be the Batman. As for future films, there's awesome potential there, especially if key people remain committed and the vision isn't totally thrown out akin to a Joel Shumacher flaming neon concept pieces "Batman & Robin"/"Batman Forever." Hopefully Nolan will have some role in future projects, even if it's limited to reading a script and offering pointers. This has been such a great series, and it's sad that it goes out with such a real-life event connected to it. Just like the Joker attempted to get people to turn on each other and to create mass chaos, the coward Aurora killer is sorely mistaken.

 

I loved how they used the closing lines from Commissioner Gordon from TDK... that Batman was the hero that Gotham deserved, but not the hero that it needed. And that Harvey Dent, omitting his crimes as Two-Face, was the hero Gotham needed... (and didn't deserve(?)). The critical moment when Gotham is broken during Bane's attack was not when he bombed the stadium and other targets --- it's when he read the speech that Gordon had earlier penned and wanted to deliver... indeed that thought that the city was ready to hear and for him to make his exit because of the deceit. The city needed that archetype and when they stopped beliving in Harvey Dent and nothing was there to replace him, the will to fight back --- along with the means that Bane had taken --- was lost. Losing the will to fight is utter defeat. It was a nice storyline close to have the statue of Batman in City Hall, a tribute that this anonymous citizen (to the general public, at least) was the hero Gotham needed and deserved.

 

It runs counter to Bane's use of an 'anonymous citizen' who held the trigger for the bomb. So much hatred stemming from Ras al Ghoul, who appointed himself the arbiter of all things immoral and due for destruction. One would think that Ras's treatment of them would make his daughter and Bane hate him, rather than carry out Ras's dying mission. But, the world is a weird place.

 

In Gotham, we get a peek of Occupy Wall Street protesters' dreams. The rich are eaten and sentenced to death. The movement's leader promises to give the city back to the people whose toil makes the rich... rich. And yet his goal is not equality of opportunity or even equally of outcome --- it's a deep-seated self-loathing and the Jonestown-like usurped determination that everyone in the city are better off dead. This is what comes of trashing all means of social stability... in the words of Shakespeare, this is what happens "when envy breeds unkind division, there comes the ruin, there begins confusion"... Mr. X has money therefore he is bad! that we're seeing today in many sectors, even from our president. It's sick. Break down those core components, put the yoke of tyranny on the productive and this isn't far from what you will ultimately get. Capitalism ain't perfect, but it provides more stability for more people than anything else that's come along. Don't mean for it to become a political thread by any means, but that's my read.

 

I'm sorry if this doesn't read very well WRT organization and is a bit stream-of-consciousnes. Writing on the ipad and I'm finding that it doesn't work well for longer posts.

 

Always enjoy reading your posts, my friend...I agree about the wear and tear on Batman...I think that's why I loved these films, cause you see his humanity. It's totally unbelievable to see George Clooney jumping off the walls and doing back flips on iced-over surfaces like that nonsense previously. I love that Bruce Wayne was just devastated emotionally d/t the death of Rachel, bearing the burden of taking one for the team (i.e. Gotham), and on top of that the guy's got no cartilage in his knees and walks with a cane. I think it makes for a character you can connect with on a deeper level than Batman George. I've thought about what people have said about Bane and how he ended up just being some pawn for Talia/Raz...but I just don't see it that way. Again, Nolan doesn't allow take the easy way out and just allow Bane to exist as some cerebral monster. He treats him with more respect than that and gives him more depth.

 

I dunno, I really thought that once the initial excitement wore off and I started contemplating some of the criticisms that my thoughts on the film would change, but I stand by my view of it. I think it's an excellent film and edges out the last one by just a hair.

[dayman]

Just saw this today. I denfinitly could climb out of that IMO.

[Acantha]

I do wonder why people say the movie is so un-Nolan like. He makes one open to interpretation ending in Inception and now all of a sudden that's always his style? This ending was very much in tune with the entire series. Begins has and ending that is happy but with setup for the future. TDK has more of the Empire Strikes Back ending where things don't look so great. Then this one wraps it up and definitively ends the series. I see no problem with that.

For me, it doesn't have anything to do with leaving an ending open to interpretation. Nolan is usually more artistic, and maybe realistic (though I'm hesitant to to use that word since it's so subjective when talking about a comic book type movie). Ending the movie with Alfred smiling would have have done the exact same thing, but wouldn't have been such an overly "fairy tale" ending. Maybe if it hadn't happened in the exact same way it did in the "dream" that Alfred had previously described. Maybe if he hadn't been sitting with Selina Kyle. Maybe if it hadn't had the perfect world, Hollywood happy ending feel to it. But all of those things together made the scene a real disappointment for me, though as I said previously I very much enjoyed the overall movie. As for the un-Nolan like comment, I'm a huge fan of Nolan and have seen all of his movies multiple times. IMO, that scene was a complete break from his norm.