Logical Reasoning Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 "The Bills understand the county's financial position." Are the Bills supposed to feel sorry for us? At what point does the sympathy for being a small market team begin and end? The Bills owe us nothing and as much as I am not a fan of negotiating in a way that gives away everything because we should take advantage of anything that the state can help us with and the NFL. Just don't tell me that we have to worry about our medicaid budget or other things that reinforce crazy entitlements because the Bills weren't thinking about those things when they signed Mario Williams. They were trying to win football games and bring value to an entertaining product that brings revenue to the area instead of suck the area dry and push John Galt away. My advice would be to our county executive would be to keep it simple. The Bills and what they bring and what we can provide back.
Captain Hindsight Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 7 words and you got that? To me that sounds like both sides want to get a fair deal done and will work together to do that. Russ Brandon being a WNY native, i trust will do what it is in the best interest of both sides
Ronin Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 "The Bills understand the county's financial position." Are the Bills supposed to feel sorry for us? At what point does the sympathy for being a small market team begin and end? The Bills owe us nothing and as much as I am not a fan of negotiating in a way that gives away everything because we should take advantage of anything that the state can help us with and the NFL. Just don't tell me that we have to worry about our medicaid budget or other things that reinforce crazy entitlements because the Bills weren't thinking about those things when they signed Mario Williams. They were trying to win football games and bring value to an entertaining product that brings revenue to the area instead of suck the area dry and push John Galt away. My advice would be to our county executive would be to keep it simple. The Bills and what they bring and what we can provide back. As long as taxpayer money, now largely deficit spending, subsidizes the organization and therefore helps pay salaries and line Wilson's pockets, the team owes "from whence those monies came" something. Agree or disagree, that's a fact. IMO they owe it back. Everyone says that the NFL is a business. Well how many of us can start a business and draw money from the state or county to help run it? Very few, and the ones that do are the biggest and most corrupt. The NFL may be a business, but it's no different than the biggest and most corrupt corporations that are ruining this country in that way. It should be a self-contained business model but it is not. It should pay for its own stadiums, player and coach salaries, etc., but does not. Meanwhile, players, like Mario, make about $100M and a lot of it is coming from you if you live in Erie County or NYS. Support it or not, it's wrong. Do they owe us? Depends upon your POV. IMO they owe "us" meaning the taxpayers, money. We'll never see it, and our taxes are what they are because we are forced to pay them nevertheless or watch the country/state increase their debt. Government is out of control. And what is "government?" It's not even a person, they're corporations unto themselves registered in the state of Delaware.
Logical Reasoning Posted July 18, 2012 Author Posted July 18, 2012 7 words and you got that? To me that sounds like both sides want to get a fair deal done and will work together to do that. Russ Brandon being a WNY native, i trust will do what it is in the best interest of both sides That's what I got. I read through the whole thing and that stuck most in my head. It is my insecurity in this area and the fact that I need to apologize for the idiot politicians and the foolish choices they have made.
dogman Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Let us keep our eye on the ball. We should get a discount compared to other teams in other regions... 1. We only have 7 home dates: that's a 12% discount right there. 2. No guarantee this team will stay here. 3. 10 years of incompetence: unmatched in the rest of the league. Really, if this team left a giant black hole whould not swallow up Erie County! In this state and in this region pro-football may be an unaffordable luxury.
EasternOHBillsFan Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Meanwhile, players, like Mario, make about $100M and a lot of it is coming from you if you live in Erie County or NYS. Support it or not, it's wrong. Do they owe us? Depends upon your POV. IMO they owe "us" meaning the taxpayers, money. We'll never see it, and our taxes are what they are because we are forced to pay them nevertheless or watch the country/state increase their debt. Government is out of control. And what is "government?" It's not even a person, they're corporations unto themselves registered in the state of Delaware. You act as if the Buffalo Bills are the one who has gotten the area into a financial mess and has created this financial burden- put the blame where it REALLY belongs, those who mismanage the other aspects of the budget. If it is wrong in your mind, then find another team to support, or vote in someone else, because the Bills can't be viable in WNY without support from the region/state, point blank. There is a choice here- either support the funding efforts in keeping the Bills in Buffalo, or don't. Ralph Wilson isn't trying to hold the citizens hostage here, for if he was the Bills would have moved a long time ago. Your choice. Edited July 18, 2012 by BmoreBills
hondo in seattle Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 The NFL is a business but running a county is business too. Both sides will give reasons why the other side ought to ante up more. It's all part of the negotiation process.
jimmy10 Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Everyone says that the NFL is a business. Well how many of us can start a business and draw money from the state or county to help run it? Very few, and the ones that do are the biggest and most corrupt. OR benefit from massive anti-trust exemptions? The OP's use of "John Galt" tells me he's just spewing Ayn Rand arglebargle while the rest of us are living in the real world. As if NFL owners belong on the same mythical, bootstrappy pedestal as Shrugging Atlas entrepreneurs. Edited July 18, 2012 by jimmyo
Mr. WEO Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 You act as if the Buffalo Bills are the one who has gotten the area into a financial mess and has created this financial burden- put the blame where it REALLY belongs, those who mismanage the other aspects of the budget. If it is wrong in your mind, then find another team to support, or vote in someone else, because the Bills can't be viable in WNY without support from the region/state, point blank. There is a choice here- either support the funding efforts in keeping the Bills in Buffalo, or don't. Ralph Wilson isn't trying to hold the citizens hostage here, for if he was the Bills would have moved a long time ago. Your choice. So, "Ralph Wilson isn't trying to hold the citizens hostage here", but if the county and state don't donate hundreds of millions of dollars to renovate "his" stadium--he will take the Bills out of Buffalo? Such classic bulls**t.
macaroni Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 As long as taxpayer money, now largely deficit spending, subsidizes the organization and therefore helps pay salaries and line Wilson's pockets, the team owes "from whence those monies came" something. Agree or disagree, that's a fact. IMO they owe it back. While I somewhat agree with your point of view, I also think you may be missing something ... How does the Bills ticket prices compare to the ticket prices around the league??? How many teams around the league charge "personal seat licences" for the honor of being able to buy your ticket ... ever hear of the Bills even entertaining the thought??? How much more revenue could the Bills generate by picking up stakes and moving to a city that can support luxury suites??? Agree or disagree, these are valid questions. IMHO they are already paying it back.
Captain Hindsight Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 So, "Ralph Wilson isn't trying to hold the citizens hostage here", but if the county and state don't donate hundreds of millions of dollars to renovate "his" stadium--he will take the Bills out of Buffalo? Such classic bulls**t. Doesnt the county technically own the stadium and the property
CodeMonkey Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Russ Brandon being a WNY native, i trust will do what it is in the best interest of both sides Nonsense. Russ Brandon will do what is best for the Buffalo Bills and only the Buffalo Bills because that is what he is paid to do. He could be from WNY or Western China, it doesn't matter. Doesnt the county technically own the stadium and the property Yes and that's really the root cause of the problem. If Mr. Wilson owned the stadium and property the issue would be settled and the taxpayers (even ones who live on the other side of the state) wouldn't be getting fleeced.
Captain Hindsight Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Nonsense. Russ Brandon will do what is best for the Buffalo Bills and only the Buffalo Bills because that is what he is paid to do. He could be from WNY or Western China, it doesn't matter. Sorry i dont buy that. Russ Brandon is not out to screw Erie county
EasternOHBillsFan Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 So, "Ralph Wilson isn't trying to hold the citizens hostage here", but if the county and state don't donate hundreds of millions of dollars to renovate "his" stadium--he will take the Bills out of Buffalo? Such classic bulls**t. Yeah, keep telling yourself that. I'm not dignifying your baiting with any meaningful response.
Mr. WEO Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 While I somewhat agree with your point of view, I also think you may be missing something ... How does the Bills ticket prices compare to the ticket prices around the league??? The Bills average ticket price is more than 2 other teams and is within 10 bucks of 7 of the nesxt higher cost teams. As for premium seats, the Bills are more expensive than 9 other teams, including NO, Detroit, Seattle, Vikings, Chargers... What's your point? Cheap NFL tickets, no matter the performance of the product on the field have a high value in and of themselves? How many teams around the league charge "personal seat licences" for the honor of being able to buy your ticket ... ever hear of the Bills even entertaining the thought??? Why would the Bills sell PSLs, unless they are kicking in to renovate the stadium? How much more revenue could the Bills generate by picking up stakes and moving to a city that can support luxury suites??? This is always thrown in there (the Bills moving), despite it making no sense. How many communities in the country are clamoring to fully finance a new stadium for the Bills to move into? Can you name one? If the county tomorrow said they were no going to pay one dime towards renovating a perfectly fucntional that they have regularly upgraded over its lifetime, what is Ralph going to do about that? Nothing. There is no plan B. I might be more inclined to have my tax money diverted to the upgrade of the stadium if I knew that the Bills were going to pay for a majority of the costs, which would be pretty easy for them to do.
CodeMonkey Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Sorry i dont buy that. Russ Brandon is not out to screw Erie county It's not that he is out to specifically screw the county. His job is to make the Bills, as a corporation, as profitable as possible. So therefore in this case his ultimate goal is to have the Bills pay as little as possible (ideally nothing) and still get all, or at least as many stadium improvements as possible. And it is the job of the politicians at the state and county levels to spend as little money as possible on the stadium. And that's what is happening with all the back and forth between all parties you are seeing now. It is not Russ Brandons job to worry about the counties bottom line. His job is to worry about the bottom line of the Bills. To imply that Brandon is going to play softball with the county and spend more of the Bills money than he has to simply out of the kindness of his heart and because he is from WNY is naive in my opinion. But I am cynical by nature when it comes to businessmen and politicians.
Joe W Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Wilson only had two opportunities to move the Bills. in the early 70's before Rich stadium was built and in '98 when the first 25 year lease expired. At the age of 94 he's not going to move them, call his bluff and make him pay his share of the improvements.
Logical Reasoning Posted July 18, 2012 Author Posted July 18, 2012 Medicaid is a crazy entitlement? "Logical reasoning". What an oxy-MORON. If it wasn't for the medicaid issues in this part of the state, we wouldn't be losing the large part of the population that pays for it. It is an entitlement and a very large part of it is used in a manner I and many others would deem as crazy or ridiculous. Double check your definition of oxymoron. Oh sorry . . . play on words and I am the moron. Got ya.
Guffalo Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 One point that should be taken into consideration by the state and county, the 7 game checks for each participating player (two teams x7 games) is taxed by New York and Erie county. That revenue can be chased away without some sort of effort to appease the NFL and the Bills. By allowing the stadium to fall below the perceived "NFL level of satisfaction", Erie county and the state will stand to lose a percentage of 742 large game day checks (2 teams x 7 games x 53 players per team) As much as the state and county taxpayers wring their hands about the costs, what are the losses that will be realized if the team moves by way of lost NFL gameday paychecks? This is not including ancillary losses like vendors (taxed by state and county), stadium workers (taxed by state and county), restaurants (taxed by state and county)and hotels (taxed by state and county). Watching the Islanders and local politicians here piss and moan about improvements and a new facility, if they don't figure something out, the Islanders owner will move the team, the county will lose that gameday tax enrichment from the players/ticket sales etc. Already teetering on bankruptcy, this would push them over. Where else are you going to find someone to fill the 41 dates assigned to the hockey team? There are just so many circuses and music performers willing to take the venue. Maybe if we bring back the lions and the Christians as a weekly headliner we could fill the coliseum for a few months, but we still wouldn't get much from the performers daily paychecks since few remain when the dust settles.
Coach Tuesday Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) If it wasn't for the medicaid issues in this part of the state, we wouldn't be losing the large part of the population that pays for it. It is an entitlement and a very large part of it is used in a manner I and many others would deem as crazy or ridiculous. Double check your definition of oxymoron. Oh sorry . . . play on words and I am the moron. Got ya. That is correct. Medicaid, and the Mandate, while couched by BOTH sides as a redistribution of wealth from rich to poor, are actually something quite different: a redistribution of wealth from young to old. If you want to see the consequences of such a policy you need look any farther than WNY, which has drained its citizens dry and has seen most of its younger ones move away, in order to pay for what is essentially a retirement home the size of Erie County. But you'll never hear the pols talk about it because neither side has the balls to piss off senior citizens. Edited July 18, 2012 by Coach Tuesday
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