Park Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Incorrect. Real economies dictate that stimulus spending only substitute current demand for future demand by substituting debt for real savings and investment. The savings and investment needed for future demand are all but completely eroded by paying back debt, and new demand can only be brought on by the creation of more debt. The only thing quantitative easing ever leads to is more quantitative easing. Here's a list of all the countries who have attempted to remedy their economic situations with QE and failed: Zimbabwe, Japan, Post World War I Germany, New Zealand (Twice). Here's a list of all the countries who have attempted to remedy their economic situations with QE and succeeded:... There are none. This is absolute nonsense. Stimulus spending doesn't kill future demand. The growth of the overall economy ensures that the debt impact will be minimized. You pay it back with cheaper money, and we pay it back basically to ourselves anyway, so we spend it again, I.e. Create more future demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 This is absolute nonsense. Stimulus spending doesn't kill future demand. The growth of the overall economy ensures that the debt impact will be minimized. You pay it back with cheaper money, and we pay it back basically to ourselves anyway, so we spend it again, I.e. Create more future demand. I haven't laughed this hard in weeks. Good to have you back, DiN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 This is absolute nonsense. Stimulus spending doesn't kill future demand. The growth of the overall economy ensures that the debt impact will be minimized. You pay it back with cheaper money, and we pay it back basically to ourselves anyway, so we spend it again, I.e. Create more future demand. And where it stops, nobody knows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I haven't laughed this hard in weeks. Good to have you back, DiN. Fear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 And where it stops, nobody knows! Like I said before bring on the moes and hos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 What Has Obama Done to Help the Economy? Well, he is spending a lot...................... Obama effort spends more in June than it takes in WELL, THIS IS PRETTY MUCH HIS APPROACH TO EVERYTHING, ISN’T IT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 What Has Obama Done to Help the Economy? Well, he is spending a lot...................... Obama effort spends more in June than it takes in WELL, THIS IS PRETTY MUCH HIS APPROACH TO EVERYTHING, ISN’T IT? The fat cat evil 1%'ers need to donate more. They're not doing their fair share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 The fat cat evil 1%'ers need to donate more. They're not doing their fair share. Let's occupy something until they do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 And hey, how about those gas prices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 And hey, how about those gas prices? Ya, whatever happened to all those conservatives claiming inflation would be wildly out of control if we borrowed more money? Another shibboleth of the right proved wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Ya, whatever happened to all those conservatives claiming inflation would be wildly out of control if we borrowed more money? Another shibboleth of the right proved wrong What happens when the economy starts to heat up and all that liquidity sitting on the books finds it's way back into the economy? And in the near term, what's the price of a 64oz bottle of OJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 What happens when the economy starts to heat up and all that liquidity sitting on the books finds it's way back into the economy? And in the near term, what's the price of a 64oz bottle of OJ? You mean when demand increases? Ya, the price will rise, simple economics there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 You mean when demand increases? Ya, the price will rise, simple economics there So now you're saying there will be inflation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Ya, whatever happened to all those conservatives claiming inflation would be wildly out of control if we borrowed more money? Another shibboleth of the right proved wrong Actually, according to shawdowstats.com lead economist John Williams, the true rate of inflation was 11.1 in 2011. (For those who don't know, Shadowstats charts inflation using current Bureau of Labor statistics but uses the more accurate metrics for calculating inflation that were in place prior to the political changes made to them in 1980. IE: the non-inclusion of food, housing, and energy costs.) As reported in April 2011 by CNBC, inflation was already at 9.6% Furthermore, if you look at any commodity index for the year 2010 , you'll see a staggering amount of real cost increase. Commodity Measured / 1 Month Increase or Decrease / 12 Month Increase or Decrease Commodity Agricultural Raw Materials Index 4.71 % 38.86 % Commodity Beverage Price Index 6.82 % 18.25 % Commodity Price Index 6.65 % 27.67 % Commodity Fuel (energy) Index 3.94 % 20.35 % Commodity Food and Beverage Price Index 3.96 % 30.43 % Commodity Food Price Index 3.62 % 32.09 % Commodity Industrial Inputs Price Index 18.29 % 51.14 % Commodity Metals Price Index 25.86 % 57.62 % Commodity Non-Fuel Price Index 11.02 % 40.55 % Crude Oil (petroleum), Price index 3.00 % 20.23 % Coal, Australian thermal coal 15.20 % 36.57 % Crude Oil (petroleum) 2.84 % 20.20 % Crude Oil (petroleum); Dated Brent 4.89 % 26.08 % Crude Oil (petroleum); Dubai Fateh 3.49 % 20.31 % Crude Oil (petroleum); West Texas Intermediate 0.40 % 14.23 % Indonesian Liquified Natural Gas 5.04 % 7.07 % Natural Gas 5.76 % -23.11 % Russian Natural Gas 5.27 % 21.08 % Cocoa beans 3.85 % -10.15 % Coffee, Other Mild Arabicas 10.79 % 70.29 % Coffee, Robusta 7.81 % 41.17 % Tea 4.54 % 8.69 % Barley 2.91 % 33.10 % Maize (corn) 5.68 % 58.66 % Rice -1.73 % -11.79 % Sorghum 11.17 % 52.24 % Wheat 6.37 % 62.05 % Bananas 5.75 % 21.30 % Oranges 1.48 % -32.54 % Beef 8.48 % 38.65 % Poultry (chicken) -0.45 % 2.36 % Lamb 0.29 % -3.12 % Swine (pork) 9.01 % 11.43 % Fish (salmon) -4.13 % 30.68 % Shrimp 1.02 % 10.28 % Sugar 3.25 % 46.46 % Sugar, European import price 1.00 % -2.45 % Sugar, U.S. import price 3.25 % 32.63 % Coconut Oil 20.29 % 163.14 % Fishmeal 0.89 % -8.06 % Olive Oil, extra virgin -0.47 % -19.68 % Palm Kernel Oil 16.92 % 142.37 % Palm oil 5.75 % 66.92 % Peanut Oil 2.00 % 35.87 % Groundnuts (peanuts) 15.41 % 29.18 % Rapeseed Oil 1.16 % 29.10 % Soybean Meal 6.34 % 26.46 % Soybean Oil 4.03 % 49.98 % Soybeans 5.65 % 42.38 % Sunflower oil 4.28 % 37.30 % Coarse Wool 14.87 % 20.00 % Copra 17.33 % 158.40 % Cotton 6.35 % 131.18 % DAP fertilizer 0.31 % 39.36 % Fine Wool 22.33 % 54.70 % Hard Logs 0.74 % 19.45 % Hard Sawnwood 1.20 % 14.54 % Hides 1.85 % 19.34 % Potassium Chloride 3.81 % 3.70 % Rock Phosphate 10.71 % 58.97 % Rubber 16.30 % 79.10 % Soft Logs -4.80 % 25.46 % Soft Sawnwood -5.17 % 10.49 % Triple Superphosphate 0.53 % 60.34 % Urea -0.26 % 35.68 % Aluminum 3.52 % 9.40 % Cold-rolled steel 0.00 % 21.43 % Copper, grade A cathode 4.16 % 29.40 % Gold -2.46 % 21.33 % Hot-rolled steel 0.00 % 25.00 % Iron Ore -1.30 % 77.85 % Lead 7.08 % 9.85 % Nickel 6.31 % 39.20 % Rebar 9.09 % 17.65 % Silver -2.80 % 60.85 % Steel wire rod 2.05 % -11.56 % Tin 5.12 % 54.94 % Uranium 5.33 % 45.74 % Zinc 3.87 % -1.61 % The reason this is done, is because the Federal Government has a vested interest in reporting lower inflation rates, as opposed to real cost of living increases, due to COLA increases built into our Social Security system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Ya, whatever happened to all those conservatives claiming inflation would be wildly out of control if we borrowed more money? Another shibboleth of the right proved wrong Gold's up 250% since 2007, in a world economy that's, at best, stagnant. Why do you think that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 What happens when the economy starts to heat up and all that liquidity sitting on the books finds it's way back into the economy? And in the near term, what's the price of a 64oz bottle of OJ? I don't know about OJ but I just spent $8 on a 12 pack of High Life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Gold's up 250% since 2007, in a world economy that's, at best, stagnant. Why do you think that is? The price indices of charted commodities for the year 2010 were up more than 27% when examined as a basket of goods. The individual commodity numers are posted above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I don't know about OJ but I just spent $8 on a 12 pack of High Life. Why on earth would you spend any money on that crap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 The price indices of charted commodities for the year 2010 were up more than 27% when examined as a basket of goods. The individual commodity numers are posted above. Yeah, I saw. You can't hit DiN with too many data points, though. Make his pointy little head explode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 Why on earth would you spend any money on that crap? No money for the good stuff & if you're drinking domestic that's as good as it gets. Good old beer flavored American beer, none of that watered down diet beer for me. And it won't give you a hangover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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