FleaMoulds80 Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 In my opinion there are only 4 or 5 "ELITE" QBs in the NFL and Fitz will never be one of them.
hondo in seattle Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I doubt if Fitz will ever be talked about as an elite QB in the same breath as Brady, Brees and Rogers. But I do believe he can lead an elite offense that strikes fear into the hearts of defenders. During the first 8 games of last season, the Bills averaged 28 points per game. Compare this to the K Gun Bills offense of the Kelly, Thurman, Reed Super Bowl years... 1990 26 points per game 1991 29 points 1992 24 points 1993 21 points Whatever you think of Fitz, the Bills were really rolling for half a season. The impact of the injuries to Wood, FredEx, Fitz's ribs, the WR Corps, and so on is undeniable.
Billsrhody Posted July 17, 2012 Author Posted July 17, 2012 I like Fitz as much as anyone and hope he excels, but... do your statistical research now just listing the last 9 games like you did selectively the first 7 games last year. Looking at those stats one might wonder why he is still on the roster. Anyone can pick and choose statistics to use to prove a point, you could do that with Losman, or that matter Edwards when the Bills were the last unbeaten team in the NFL a few years back. Like I said, I like Fitz, but only using the statistics that favor your point is ridiculous. This is a great point. Lets take the last 9 games of last season for Matt Moore: 142 CMP 232 ATT 61.2 CMP% 1791 YDs 15 TDs 5 INTs Those number's look like upper echelon numbers.. but would you really want Matt Moore as your starting QB? I doubt if Fitz will ever be talked about as an elite QB in the same breath as Brady, Brees and Rogers. But I do believe he can lead an elite offense that strikes fear into the hearts of defenders. During the first 8 games of last season, the Bills averaged 28 points per game. Compare this to the K Gun Bills offense of the Kelly, Thurman, Reed Super Bowl years... 1990 26 points per game 1991 29 points 1992 24 points 1993 21 points Whatever you think of Fitz, the Bills were really rolling for half a season. The impact of the injuries to Wood, FredEx, Fitz's ribs, the WR Corps, and so on is undeniable. Some fans look to the first part of the season feel great about this season. Other fans (myself included) look at the entire season and remain skeptical. I need to see a full season out of Fitz before I can categorize him as a top 15 QB.
hondo in seattle Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 This is a great point. Lets take the last 9 games of last season for Matt Moore: 142 CMP 232 ATT 61.2 CMP% 1791 YDs 15 TDs 5 INTs Those number's look like upper echelon numbers.. but would you really want Matt Moore as your starting QB? Some fans look to the first part of the season feel great about this season. Other fans (myself included) look at the entire season and remain skeptical. I need to see a full season out of Fitz before I can categorize him as a top 15 QB. Fair enough. Personally, I think 8 games is a big enough sample to prove the theory. Not that I think the Bills will average 28 ppg this year. I do expect maybe 22-24 ppg from this offense and a big improvement on the defense.
ReturnoftheBuffaloBeast23 Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) No hate, I actually think he has been a mostly model citizen since getting out of prison. I also said, over rated, not bad. He is ok, but the next big game he wins will be his second. I will give you the rushing records, but what passing records? He has only topped 3000 yards twice in his career, and that also equals the number of Playoff wins he has. It also is the number of times he as had a passer rating over 90. Comparing brady and vick is wierd too, brady is tons better. Additionally I consider there to be about five truly upper echelon QB'S, Brees, Brady, P. Manning, Rothlisburger, and eli or maybe rivers. I say, and the numbers back it up, when healthy, fitz is in the next tier some where between 6 or 7 and 15 right where Vick is. it is up to you to define what Upper echelon means. To be clear, I dont think Fitz is as good as those guys listed above, but neither is Vick You are misinformed if you think Broken ribs would not affect a QB'S throws. all of the injured lineman and WR's also will make a QB look a bit pedestrian as well. He was a top ten QB last year before all of those injuries on offense happened in the span of about 3-4 games. When he lost his protection (o=line), security blanket(FJ), and the health of his recievers(even stevie played on a bum groin) he had much worse numbers. And yeah, i get the fact that every team deals with injuries, but not that many and most organizations have better depth at those positions. TO SUMMERIZE; vick is over rated, not bad(again, please provide any passing records). Fitz is under rated, not great. If forced to rate them against each other, i would rank vick higher. Injuries on a team with a lack of depth is more harmful than injuries on say NE OR NYG. A final note, I don't get grown men calling people names like 'Fitzgarbage.' Win or lose, he has been great for Buffalo, grow up or at least use a little imagination. I absolutely cannot put fitzGARBAGE in the top 10 in the league your missing a good 10 players over him statiscally (maybe 15). Mike Vick is top 10 however and I mean look at every top 10 chart from espn to the NFL Networks top 100 where was fits compared to Vick. I mean not to quote T.O. but "you love your Quarterback" I get it I really do but come on do you honestly whole heartedly believe Fitz is better than Michael? Smarter yea but thats where its stops MV7 is faster, quicker, better arm, can throw the deep ball better, accuracy is debatable tho. But come on leave the Bills love aside and think this over. I love the bills like you do my friend but lets be real for a second... And why does my calling him fitzGARBAGE really make you that mad its not that serious I mean whats worst than me calling him that is REAL ANALYST call him the wrong name all day everyday. So what are you really saying? Tell them to get it right then I just might... Edited July 17, 2012 by ReturnoftheBuffaloBeast23
eball Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I absolutely cannot put fitzGARBAGE in the top 10 in the league your missing a good 10 players over him statiscally (maybe 15). Mike Vick is top 10 however and I mean look at every top 10 chart from espn to the NFL Networks top 100 where was fits compared to Vick. I mean not to quote T.O. but "you love your Quarterback" I get it I really do but come on do you honestly whole heartedly believe Fitz is better than Michael? Smarter yea but thats where its stops MV7 is faster, quicker, better arm, can throw the deep ball better, accuracy is debatable tho. But come on leave the Bills love aside and think this over. I love the bills like you do my friend but lets be real for a second... And why does my calling him fitzGARBAGE really make you that mad its not that serious I mean whats worst than me calling him that is REAL ANALYST call him the wrong name all day everyday. So what are you really saying? Tell them to get it right then I just might... How good can Vick be? Jack Kemp had more rushing TDs, for crying out loud. By the way, calling him fitzGARBAGE doesn't make anyone mad...it just makes you look like an immature douche. Fitzgibbons, Fitzgerald, etc., are all at least funny.
John from Riverside Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Well first of all I'm not a Fitz basher. Is it wrong to be skeptical about a guy until he proves he can bring a team to the playoffs? I would like nothing more than to see Fitz succeed and bring this team to the super bowl... I'm just not sure he has it in him. The point I was trying to make is that I absolutely can blame this team's shortcomings on the lack of quality quarterback play. I can do that because I belive if we had Brady or Rogers or Brees we would be a playoff team every year with the way our team was constructed last year. Upper echelon QBs are constantly in the playoffs because they make their teams that much better. Just because I dont put 100% of my faith behind a guy that has never been to the playoffs.. does that make me a Fitz basher? Yes
Billsrhody Posted July 17, 2012 Author Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Yes Well you'll have to give me a break down of rooting for hometown player rules so I know what I can and can't do Edited July 17, 2012 by Billsrhody
Ramblin' Rob Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I will try this in English this time...I don't think fitz is better. I do think he is better for the Bills. I don't think Vick sucks, I do think he is over rated. Again, awaiting the passing records Vick holds. Also I would rank vick somewhere between 7-10 and fitz around 15.
Best Player Available Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Well you'll have to give me a break down of rooting for hometown player rules so I know what I can and can't do Well, here's some homer tips I have learned. 1) You can always call him Fitzmagic. Even if he loses 7 straight, there will be an acceptable excuse. No matter how absurd it is. 2) You can never call him Fitzgarbage. Even if he goes on a 7 game losing streak. See Above. If you cannot contain yourself you will be labeled a "hater" No trying to say you have a valid point to make, it is unacceptable. Some have already said there OK with a 0-3 start since Fitz will still be getting his "mechanics" in order. Be prepared 3) The Bills current coaching staff are golden. Never mind the head coaches 10-22 record we were/are rebuilding from a perennial 7-9 team that had to be blown up. David Lee is a gift from above. Never make a David Lee Roth joke, it's banned. 4) Wannastache is most likely the DC of the year because???? He was out of the league for years? No. No one else wanted him? Some truth there. He got a free one year pass in the Bills booth while a DC named Edwards took all the blame? Correct. 5) Mechanics. The most overused word on this board. For Fitzmagic and Lee's sake I hope it works on a 8 year vet. 6)Go Bills
ReturnoftheBuffaloBeast23 Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) I will try this in English this time...I don't think fitz is better. I do think he is better for the Bills. I don't think Vick sucks, I do think he is over rated. Again, awaiting the passing records Vick holds. Also I would rank vick somewhere between 7-10 and fitz around 15. And I quote.. "Vick is now the only player in NFL history with three touchdown passes and two rushing touchdowns in the first half of a game. He is also the first player in NFL history with at least 300 yards passing, 50 yards rushing, four passing touchdowns and two rushing touchdowns in a game." ~ Fox Sports GAME, SET, MATCH!... What exactly has fitzGARBAGE done again? Well, here's some homer tips I have learned. 1) You can always call him Fitzmagic. Even if he loses 7 straight, there will be an acceptable excuse. No matter how absurd it is. 2) You can never call him Fitzgarbage. Even if he goes on a 7 game losing streak. See Above. If you cannot contain yourself you will be labeled a "hater" No trying to say you have a valid point to make, it is unacceptable. Some have already said there OK with a 0-3 start since Fitz will still be getting his "mechanics" in order. Be prepared 3) The Bills current coaching staff are golden. Never mind the head coaches 10-22 record we were/are rebuilding from a perennial 7-9 team that had to be blown up. David Lee is a gift from above. Never make a David Lee Roth joke, it's banned. 4) Wannastache is most likely the DC of the year because???? He was out of the league for years? No. No one else wanted him? Some truth there. He got a free one year pass in the Bills booth while a DC named Edwards took all the blame? Correct. 5) Mechanics. The most overused word on this board. For Fitzmagic and Lee's sake I hope it works on a 8 year vet. 6)Go Bills You sir deserve an award for this great post... Edited July 18, 2012 by ReturnoftheBuffaloBeast23
boyst Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 And I quote.. "Vick is now the only player in NFL history with three touchdown passes and two rushing touchdowns in the first half of a game. He is also the first player in NFL history with at least 300 yards passing, 50 yards rushing, four passing touchdowns and two rushing touchdowns in a game." ~ Fox Sports GAME, SET, MATCH!... What exactly has fitzGARBAGE done again? You sir deserve an award for this great post... I forgot how much I did not miss you.
John from Riverside Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Well you'll have to give me a break down of rooting for hometown player rules so I know what I can and can't do You can start by not being so transparent..... "I have nothing against Fitz but" Then every single point you make circles back around to Ryan Fitzpatrck These facts are undisputable - Ryan Fitpatrick is an "OK" quarterback......he is up....he is down....in the end he is a second tier guy - Fitzy is a system QB.....and Chan Gailey has done very well in the past with these types - IT DOES NOT MATTER what offensive system you run......unless you are a GREAT QB and a GREAT OFFENSE......if you dont have a defense you will not win - The bills have done everything in their power to biuld the team up around Fitz.....premium draft picks have been put on the O and D lines.....top free agents have been brought in. The bills have restocked this team with talent over the past two years - People like to bag on Fitz.....but they dont like to say what the alternative could have been.......who SHOULD be (and be realistic) the QB of this team? I'll wait And I quote.. "Vick is now the only player in NFL history with three touchdown passes and two rushing touchdowns in the first half of a game. He is also the first player in NFL history with at least 300 yards passing, 50 yards rushing, four passing touchdowns and two rushing touchdowns in a game." ~ Fox Sports GAME, SET, MATCH!... What exactly has fitzGARBAGE done again? You sir deserve an award for this great post... No doubt a award must be given.....although not in the way you think......
Ramblin' Rob Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 And I quote.. "Vick is now the only player in NFL history with three touchdown passes and two rushing touchdowns in the first half of a game. He is also the first player in NFL history with at least 300 yards passing, 50 yards rushing, four passing touchdowns and two rushing touchdowns in a game." ~ Fox Sports GAME, SET, MATCH!... Two games, that's what you got? And those are not really passing records either, they are passing combined with rushing. I asked you to provide me with the passing records. He has none. You are clearly an irritant to many on this board and i will no longer engage you in debate. You don't understand my point, and you fail to provide proof to back up your claims and then claim victory. You can think you win, and I will know you are a loser. I forgot how much I did not miss you. right?!?! How good can Vick be? Jack Kemp had more rushing TDs, for crying out loud. By the way, calling him fitzGARBAGE doesn't make anyone mad...it just makes you look like an immature douche. Fitzgibbons, Fitzgerald, etc., are all at least funny. see what i mean?!?!?
#34fan Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Its interesting you bring up the Giants as an example.....you know what the Giants had? A DOMINATING DEFENSIVE LINE... hmmmmmm Personally I think your cherry picking to push your agenda Your arguement is weak - Freddie Jackson was one of the BEST running backs in the league last year....and he was replaced with a guy who while talented is still finding his way - You dont thinking losing Eric Wood...having to shift a guy over to his spot.....then having to shift a backup into his.....along with being down to 3rd string LT isnt going to cause issues? Really? - Our QB was banged up with an absolute lack of faith on anyone behind him. And while your bitching about the QB...keep in mind that the real problem from last year....they LAST PLACE DEFENSE did have something to do with our record. You CANNOT point at the QB and blame him for a losing season.....that is just simple minded The Patsies D ranked near the bottom last year too! -Not only did they make the playoffs, they went to a superbowl! Thankfully they lost in grand style. -Still, they WENT to the dance. Even a complete retard knows the Pat's SB run had alot to do with their starting QB. I'm not knocking you at all chief, It's just obvious to anyone paying attention that good QB's tend to OVERCOME. Whereas, bad QB's seem to always RATIONALIZE. Personally, I'd love it if I could say JUST ONCE that Fitzo kept us in a game, Or that he was the Mother-F#@*ing MAN when things got tough down the stretch. Don't look for that to happen though. -It may well be that Fitzo isn't this type of gritty, competitive, win-at-all-costs athlete. Which Brings me to our HC/OC situation. -If Gailey is going to take on both of these responsibilities, shouldn't he at least understand the limitations of his starting QB? How many times last year did we see him and Fitz going over busted plays with that stupid clipboard? -Didn't that strike you as weird? -Even unprofessional? It was like watching two guys on completely different pages try to work together. In fairness, that's not all Fitz's fault. I actually blame Gailey for the majority of those "busted" plays. But let's not pretend we have blue-chip talent at the starting QB position. We don't. Bottom line? -Barring outrageous luck, we go as far as Chan's playcalling will allow this season. High-power D or not. Edited July 18, 2012 by #34fan
Ramblin' Rob Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 So the two come backs in back to back weeks do not count as the just one time?
#34fan Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) So the two come backs in back to back weeks do not count as the just one time? If I remember right, our D was really cranking out the turnovers at that point. And Freddy was a flat-out beast on the field. But hey, whatever. IF there was any magic at all from Fitzo, then Chan "the offensive guru" should have parlayed that magic into at least 8 wins. Sorry but the Bengals, and Giants game should have been ours. Clearly there was some disconnect between QB and OC that (along with injuries, and porous D) hurt us in quite a few games. IMHO that disconnect was the difference between 6 and 8 wins. Edited July 18, 2012 by #34fan
John from Riverside Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 The Patsies D ranked near the bottom last year too! -Not only did they make the playoffs, they went to a superbowl! Thankfully they lost in grand style. -Still, they WENT to the dance. Even a complete retard knows the Pat's SB run had alot to do with their starting QB. I'm not knocking you at all chief, It's just obvious to anyone paying attention that good QB's tend to OVERCOME. Whereas, bad QB's seem to always RATIONALIZE. Personally, I'd love it if I could say JUST ONCE that Fitzo kept us in a game, Or that he was the Mother-F#@*ing MAN when things got tough down the stretch. Don't look for that to happen though. -It may well be that Fitzo isn't this type of gritty, competitive, win-at-all-costs athlete. Which Brings me to our HC/OC situation. -If Gailey is going to take on both of these responsibilities, shouldn't he at least understand the limitations of his starting QB? How many times last year did we see him and Fitz going over busted plays with that stupid clipboard? -Didn't that strike you as weird? -Even unprofessional? It was like watching two guys on completely different pages try to work together. In fairness, that's not all Fitz's fault. I actually blame Gailey for the majority of those "busted" plays. But let's not pretend we have blue-chip talent at the starting QB position. We don't. Bottom line? -Barring outrageous luck, we go as far as Chan's playcalling will allow this season. High-power D or not. There is only so many Tom Brady's to go around....actually.....there is only one So what do we do?
ReturnoftheBuffaloBeast23 Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) I forgot how much I did not miss you. Awww you didn't miss me..Well you must of since you decided to post me.. You need a hug? LOL... see what i mean?!?!? That was one game and 2 records my dear friend.. You only asks for one and I gave two sorry but those are PASSING RECORDS like fox sports said no matter if its attached to a rushing record.. Im not an irritant to all but some yes (who don't agree) but who doesn't irritate somebody else its life.. Just like some agree with you but majority agrees with me (minus that rigged poll I'm a call sports nation on this topic lol)... But It was all in fun i mean I don't hate Fitzpatrick but to say he's better than Michael Vick or we're lucky to have him is asinine. We all are here for the good of the team we all root for the same team so that means I root for the guy but that doesn't mean I don't know his worth and his worth from what I seen isn't much because he falls apart a lot. Feel me son? and I'm not gonna stop calling him Fitzgarbage, Fitztrash, Fitzwack etc etc until he proves he is worthy until then deal with it cuz i for sure am not calling him Fitzmagic..lol.. Good Day sir!!! Edited July 18, 2012 by ReturnoftheBuffaloBeast23
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 What exactly has fitzGARBAGE done again? The crux of your alleged argument seems to be, no one plays the game of football with exactly the same combination of passing and running abilities as Vick. Fine. Granted. No one plays the game of football with exactly the same combination of passing and running abilities as Vick, though I wouldn't bet against Cam Newton beating those records. Too bad no one around here is contending that particular point. The question is overall NFL QB skill. Facts are, Fitzpatrick has shown some stuff: "Coming into the eleventh game of the regular season in the second quarter against the Houston Texans to replace injured veteran journeyman Jamie Martin, Fitzpatrick led the Rams from a 24-3 halftime deficit to a 33-27 overtime win, throwing for 310 yards and three touchdowns, completing 63.3% of his passes and 117.4 QB rating for the game. This made Fitzpatrick one of only six players who passed for more 300 yards in their NFL debut." He led great comeback games against Oakland and NE last season. He isn't Brady. He hasn't shown himself to be a top 10 QB in the NFL (some would say "yet"). But he's plainly not a bottom of the barrel QB, in statistics or in what he's accomplished in games. One doesn't even need to be much of a football fan or very knowledgeable about football to see that. That is the reason this persistent fixation of yours for calling him FitzGARBAGE is just dumb, and makes you look like a tool. But cut-I mean suit-yourself.
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