Looks like blackout rule won't apply here

[Gibran Chandan]

I've always been a fan of the blackout rule. Perhaps my view as a [for all intents and purposes] life-long season ticket holder is skewed, but I've always felt that if you want to guarantee that you'll see the game, you need to buy a ticket. If you don't buy a ticket, you have no right to complain if you can't see it.

 

Fair enough; I'll play along.

 

1) We live in a media-based society. Events that draw tens of thousands of spectators are expected to be televised. Hell, community access channels cover high school football games. A major network can't carry a single local NFL game once a week? I realize we aren't entitled to that coverage, but in this day and age, it's difficult to accept a blackout.

 

2) Not everyone can afford tickets. Let's say there's a family of four. Dad's got a low paying job while mom stays home so she can be home with the kids when they're not in school. Dad wants to watch the game with his kids, since they both like the team. Problem is, they live two hours from the stadium. Instead of having to shell out for tickets, gas, parking, and stadium food, why not let them flip on the TV, plug the antenna in, and watch the home team?

 

3) Not everyone lives in an area where tickets are feasible. I don't live in New York State anymore, but I have a lot of friends who do. On the few Sundays when I'm even at home, Sunday Ticket isn't an option since I can't get dish. Most weeks, I'm in a hotel in some other state anyway. However, I have friends back home who have Slingboxes, and they fire up the box every Sunday so I can tune in. If the game's blacked out, there's my only option thrown out the window.

 

So, do I have a right to complain? No, I guess not. But is there a reasonable expectation that I should be able to spend three hours of my Sunday afternoons watching a football game without the unavailable time and money necessary to get into a seat in the stadium? I sure believe so, and I doubt I'm alone.

[The Senator]

Lets not forget the Bills want the county to spend upwards of 250 million on the stadium. That money wont come from just season ticket holders. So don't give me crap about how I shouldn't get the game for free because I'm not contributing. They make way more from advertisers than they do from ticket sales. And those advertisers want as many people as possible to watch the game. The black out rule is anti productive to whose paying the most.

Facts are useful things, son - and you should try to obtain some next time you attempt to construct an argument here on TSW.

 

First of all, the Bills make NOTHING off of television ad revenue.

 

Zero. Zilch. Nada.

 

(That revenue goes to the networks and the local affiliates that sell the airtime to the advertisers.)

 

 

Second, of the $250M in improvements the Bills are requesting, the bulk of the funding is expected to come not from Erie County taxpayers but from the State of New York - which stands to earn far in excess of that $250M in the income taxes it collect on the Bills player and personnel salaries and various sales taxes on, among other things, concessions sales to ticket holders who attend the games!

 

(And since NYS has contributed far more than that amount to professional sports franchises downstate, and also will be - from a tax revenue perspective - the major benefactor of having the Bills here, it is expected that NYS will willingly and eagerly pony up.)

 

So the bulk of the tax revenue that will fund the stadium improvements will ultimately come from the Bills organization and the ticket holders who attend the game - making them even bigger financial stakeholders than the whiners who complain that they have a right to get for free what the stakeholders pay a substantial amount of good, hard-earned money to see.

 

 

Nice try though, and thanks for playing...do come back and play again when you've got something.

 

.

Edited July 14, 2012 by The Senator

[BillnutinHouston]

So you only go to the game because you want to be assured to watch the game? I will throw the BS flag on that!!

 

I typically go to a few games a year and dont do it to just see the game. I do it for the experience of seeing a game in person, may people dont understand that. But, you being a season ticket holder I bet you would NOT be content watching the game from the couch.

 

Where are your seats?? might be a good deal for me. Try to buy single game tickets, so where you get to sit.

 

I'm even more confused by this response than I was by your first statement where you opined "As far as the season ticket holders feeling that they are somehow bigger supporters dollars wise is just stupid."

 

Can you further clarify your point?

[....lybob]

I am a diehard Bills fan and appreciate the difficult decision that Mr. Brandon had to make. I am sure it was difficult and will have a great deal of scrutiny with it. True Bills fans will completely understand the rationale, but this really should not have surprised anyone. Our boxes are a tough sell along with our club seats. We need the revenue from the tickets but probably could not afford the financial obligation to the league if we went with the 85%.

 

Before those of you who wish to bash this move do so, try and think outside the box a bit.

For the most part if the Bills put a quality product out I don't think this will be an issue one way or another- it would be nice if Ralph occasionally used the option under hardship conditions (combination of brutal weather and losing)

[bowery4]

Wow Senator is the only one who mentioned it here, "Ralph IS Cheap"

And black out rules have always sucked, period (it was different in a bad way, in the 60s. Even sold out games were blacked out, I mean WTF is that?).

[QCity]

Do people think they are a unique snowflake because they pay taxes? You are entitled to exactly two things from your taxes:

 

1) Jack

and

2) Sh*t

[OCinBuffalo]

Do people think they are a unique snowflake because they pay taxes? You are entitled to exactly two things from your taxes:

 

1) Jack

and

2) Sh*t

Which is precisely why we should avoid those who think they are entitled to raise our taxes and spend our money, on things like Solyndra, like the plague.

 

Hey, at least you're being honest about it: we are never going to get what we pay for/what they are selling. Be it safer streets, fixed roads, more "compassion" , whatever, the first thing they will always do is waste our money paying off their buddies/constituencies...and then do a sh*t job allocating the rest(see Stimulus....and coming soon, Obamacare).

 

The only reason NYS is willing to contribute anything to the Bills is because they know they will lock themselves into revenue for years to come. The revenue generated by the Bills for NYS simply cannot be replaced by anything else. That's why politicians care so much about the Bills leaving: they'd lose a ton of money that they currently enjoy wasting...on things that aren't even Keynesian multipliers.

[vincec]

So the bulk of the tax revenue that will fund the stadium improvements will ultimately come from the Bills organization and the ticket holders who attend the game - making them even bigger financial stakeholders than the whiners who complain that they have a right to get for free what the stakeholders pay a substantial amount of good, hard-earned money to see.

 

Nice try though, and thanks for playing...do come back and play again when you've got something.

.

So then I guess that you "stakeholders" won't mind if the whiners don't pay anything for any of the improvements. The Bills should just sell PSLs to you diehards for the $$$ to renovate the stadium and then only you can go and see the games. Anything shown on TV is just a bonus (althought something tells me that the league will want as many games as possible televised anyway). It's a model that's been used many times. There are a lot of other uses for the taxpayer money that would benefit the region far more than funding a football team- especially in these economic times.

 

If, on the other hand, tax dollars are used then EVERYONE is a stakeholder and deserves a say. I would imagine that the minimum that they would deserve is the right to watch the product that they're partially funding when others who have not paid anything can do so.

Edited July 14, 2012 by vincec

[thebandit27]

Fair enough; I'll play along.

 

1) We live in a media-based society. Events that draw tens of thousands of spectators are expected to be televised. Hell, community access channels cover high school football games. A major network can't carry a single local NFL game once a week? I realize we aren't entitled to that coverage, but in this day and age, it's difficult to accept a blackout.

 

2) Not everyone can afford tickets. Let's say there's a family of four. Dad's got a low paying job while mom stays home so she can be home with the kids when they're not in school. Dad wants to watch the game with his kids, since they both like the team. Problem is, they live two hours from the stadium. Instead of having to shell out for tickets, gas, parking, and stadium food, why not let them flip on the TV, plug the antenna in, and watch the home team?

 

3) Not everyone lives in an area where tickets are feasible. I don't live in New York State anymore, but I have a lot of friends who do. On the few Sundays when I'm even at home, Sunday Ticket isn't an option since I can't get dish. Most weeks, I'm in a hotel in some other state anyway. However, I have friends back home who have Slingboxes, and they fire up the box every Sunday so I can tune in. If the game's blacked out, there's my only option thrown out the window.

 

So, do I have a right to complain? No, I guess not. But is there a reasonable expectation that I should be able to spend three hours of my Sunday afternoons watching a football game without the unavailable time and money necessary to get into a seat in the stadium? I sure believe so, and I doubt I'm alone.

 

I appreciate the response. Here are my thoughts:

 

1. Of course they can, and they do. You'll still get to see NFL games each week if you have an antenna. Just maybe not the local team, because the threat of missing the game creates additional incentive to sell tickets.

 

2. Dad can drive the kids 1/2 hour to a Chili's, Tully's, etc. that has NFL Sunday ticket and snack on low-cost chips and salsa for 4 hours while watching the game...piece of cake. In all seriousness though, I'd say it's more of a time issue for the families you describe than a money issue. Plus I'll add that these types of situations are--I believe--a minority of the collective of fans that choose not to attend the games. The rest of the usual non-attendees can pick up the slack and buy tickets if they're concerned about their brethren.

 

3. Again, there's almost always a bar/restaurant within reasonable driving distance that has Sunday Ticket. Options are out there.

 

So then I guess that you "stakeholders" won't mind if the whiners don't pay anything for any of the improvements. The Bills should just sell PSLs to you diehards for the $$$ to renovate the stadium and then only you can go and see the games. Anything shown on TV is just a bonus (althought something tells me that the league will want as many games as possible televised anyway). It's a model that's been used many times. There are a lot of other uses for the taxpayer money that would benefit the region far more than funding a football team- especially in these economic times.

If, on the other hand, tax dollars are used then EVERYONE is a stakeholder and deserves a say. I would imagine that the minimum that they would deserve is the right to watch the product that they're partially funding when others who have not paid anything can do so.

 

I understand your position. This statement, however, is akin to saying that if Erie County decides to build a new bridge for vehicle traffic into Canada, that you get to drive on it even if you don't have a car. Not the case. Erie County takes the tax money, builds the bridge, and allows folks to use it for vehicle traffic. You still need to buy the car. I'm not saying that it's the most desirable scenario for everyone, but it is how tax dollars work.

[vincec]

I understand your position. This statement, however, is akin to saying that if Erie County decides to build a new bridge for vehicle traffic into Canada, that you get to drive on it even if you don't have a car. Not the case. Erie County takes the tax money, builds the bridge, and allows folks to use it for vehicle traffic. You still need to buy the car. I'm not saying that it's the most desirable scenario for everyone, but it is how tax dollars work.

Well, I've purchased a TV so I guess I'm all set in this regard. I'm not saying that I should be given a ticket to the game. I'm saying that if the team broadcasts the games then of all people, the people who funded the stadium improvements should be allowed to see it.

 

Also, I think that those who are saying that the municipality will recoup its money from the team need to do some research on stadium subsidies. The general consensus is that they do not pay for themselves in returned revenues. Most of the money that fans spend at the stadium would still be spent on something else in the same area and the majority of the money that the team generates goes to the players and owner, many of whom do not live in the municipality that paid for the improvements and hence don't pay taxes there. The money doesn't really come back to the city.

Edited July 14, 2012 by vincec

[The Senator]

So then I guess that you "stakeholders" won't mind if the whiners don't pay anything for any of the improvements. The Bills should just sell PSLs to you diehards for the $ to renovate the stadium and then only you can go and see the games. Anything shown on TV is just a bonus (althought something tells me that the league will want as many games as possible televised anyway). It's a model that's been used many times. There are a lot of other uses for the taxpayer money that would benefit the region far more than funding a football team- especially in these economic times.

 

If, on the other hand, tax dollars are used then EVERYONE is a stakeholder and deserves a say. I would imagine that the minimum that they would deserve is the right to watch the product that they're partially funding when others who have not paid anything can do so.

 

Well, Doug, I couldn't agree with you more;

 

Since you pay taxes just like I do, you have every right to watch the game just like I do - all you have to do is BUY A TICKET...JUST LIKE I DO!!!!

 

I'm sorry games get blacked out, but occasionally they do. That's life. In the last decade, during the Bills long drought, there were a couple of seasons when I did not renew my seats. And when other fans began voting with their feet as well, more games were subject to the blackout. I never whined about it, or proclaimed some 'right' to see the game for free on local TV in the days when I didn't (or couldn't) buy tickets. I started to miss seeing the games, so I bit the bullet and re-joined the fold. Do you think I would have ponied up for club seats if it was guaranteed that I could watch every game for free on local TV? Or maybe you think the ticket buyers pay all that money and make the effort to trek out to RWS on Sundays just so YOU can sit at home and watch for free?

 

Last I looked, tax subsidies also fund the Buffalo Philharmonic, Albright Knox, Burchfield Penny Gallery, the Buffalo Zoo, Museum of Science, Buffalo & Erie County Historical Society, etc., etc. - yet only the most virulent communist (or complete idiot) would argue that they have a right to free access to those culturals simply because our local governments deem them worthy of funding, maintaining, and keeping here for the greater good of the entire area.

 

And, btw, the county and state do not fund the Buffalo Bills - they fund (and own) the building where the Bills play, which the Bills then lease from the county. Local IDA dollars also fund virtually every strip plaza, fast food restaurant, big-box retail store, and corner drug store chain - so I guess, since your tax dollars funded those buildings, you feel you have a right to help yourself to some free products from the businesses that occupy them, operate them, and employ the local people who work there? Good luck explaining that logic to the local judge.

 

Congrats on your new TV set. I'm sure it's very nice. Now, in the event that a Bills game is blacked out this season (which I doubt will happen), you are correct in claiming the right to watch the NY Giants or whatever other game-of-the-week is aired for free with all the others who have not paid anything to do so.

 

(Though I should probably check and see if any of my tax dollars went to subsidize the company, facility, or jobs of the workers that manufactured your new TV - it may partially belong to me!)

 

 

BTW, welcome back Doug - hope you and Wendy enjoyed your vacation

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiquICTxSlc

Edited July 14, 2012 by The Senator

[BoCat320]

While I understand there are people who cannot physically or economically attend the games, using the argument that just because public money is involved means the Bills owe it to the taxpayers to broadcast their games makes little sense to me.

 

Take for example this hypothetical. If Ford stamping plant in Hamburg were thinking of leaving town, but instead was extended large tax breaks by Erie County and NYS to stay, thereby saving jobs and economic morale, would Ford then owe it to the taxpayers of Erie County and NYS to discount their cars so that all could afford them? This is the type of practice that happens on a regular basis, and yet all of those corporations still try to maximize their profits to the fullest extent, rather than offering discounts to taxpayers. Don't blame the Bills for playing within the system they are provided. At the end of the day they are a corporation whose purpose is to maximize profits, not extend good will. It is a business decision, and the right one at that.

[Ramius]

The arrogance of season ticket holders in this thread is astounding.

 

Can anyone explain why the highest revenue major sports league is the only one to blackout the local games of the home team? It's nothing more than pure greed.

[Coach Tuesday]

If they would just reduce concession prices by 20-50%, everyone would win...

[The Senator]

The arrogance of season ticket holders in this thread is astounding.

Surpassed only by the ignorance of those who think that having every home game on free local TV would not result in a half-empty stadium.

 

(Then again, I suppose the Bills could just cover the entire upper deck with the world's largest tarpaulin and call every game a sell-out.)

 

Can anyone explain why the highest revenue major sports league is the only one to blackout the local games of the home team?

I probably could, but have a feeling it would take way too long and wouldn't be worth the effort

 

GO BILLSSS!!!!

 

19 and 0 baby!!!!!

[vincec]

These points are loudicrous. And the name calling and video don't strengthen your case. They only make you seem child like.

 

Well, Doug, I couldn't agree with you more;

 

Since you pay taxes just like I do, you have every right to watch the game just like I do - all you have to do is BUY A TICKET...JUST LIKE I DO!!!! Why should I have to buy a ticket when other people who didn't pay anything are watching the game fore free on TV? People buy tickets when they want to watch the game live with the stadium experience. I have done this many times. It shouldn't affect my ability to watch this on TV.

 

I'm sorry games get blacked out, but occasionally they do. That's life. In the last decade, during the Bills long drought, there were a couple of seasons when I did not renew my seats. And when other fans began voting with their feet as well, more games were subject to the blackout. I never whined about it, or proclaimed some 'right' to see the game for free on local TV in the days when I didn't (or couldn't) buy tickets. I started to miss seeing the games, so I bit the bullet and re-joined the fold. Do you think I would have ponied up for club seats if it was guaranteed that I could watch every game for free on local TV? Or maybe you think the ticket buyers pay all that money and make the effort to trek out to RWS on Sundays just so YOU can sit at home and watch for free? This comment is worthless. So, if I don't like it I should buy a ticket? How about if you don't like it then pay for the renovations yourself.

 

Last I looked, tax subsidies also fund the Buffalo Philharmonic, Albright Knox, Burchfield Penny Gallery, the Buffalo Zoo, Museum of Science, Buffalo & Erie County Historical Society, etc., etc. - yet only the most virulent communist (or complete idiot) would argue that they have a right to free access to those culturals simply because our local governments deem them worthy of funding, maintaining, and keeping here for the greater good of the entire area. None of these other institutions broadcast their events for free to non-tax payers while blacking them out to the ones that helped pay their bill. The good of the community is decided by all of its members, not just the season ticket holders. Shafting them on gameday does not sound like a benefit to me.

 

And, btw, the county and state do not fund the Buffalo Bills - they fund (and own) the building where the Bills play, which the Bills then lease from the county. Local IDA dollars also fund virtually every strip plaza, fast food restaurant, big-box retail store, and corner drug store chain - so I guess, since your tax dollars funded those buildings, you feel you have a right to help yourself to some free products from the businesses that occupy them, operate them, and employ the local people who work there? Good luck explaining that logic to the local judge. The county owns the building so that the Bills don't have to pay property taxes or maintenance costs. The lease rate is typically well below what it costs to maintain the facility and definitely doesn't recoup renovation costs. It's not a benefit to the county at all but is another perk for the team. Big box stores are not owned by the municipality but by a developer, who does pays property taxes and maintenance costs. BTW, I am not an opponent of government subsidies in all cases but there in no where near enough reciprocity here.

 

Congrats on your new TV set. I'm sure it's very nice. Now, in the event that a Bills game is blacked out this season (which I doubt will happen), you are correct in claiming the right to watch the NY Giants or whatever other game-of-the-week is aired for free with all the others who have not paid anything to do so. Yet another worthless comment. Your specialty.

 

(Though I should probably check and see if any of my tax dollars went to subsidize the company, facility, or jobs of the workers that manufactured your new TV - it may partially belong to me!) And another...

 

 

BTW, welcome back Doug - hope you and Wendy enjoyed your vacation

 

youtube.com/watch?v=NiquICTxSlc And another.

Edited July 14, 2012 by vincec

[Drewgetz]

It's a win win. If the Bills are good enough to be playoff bound in December, sellout. If they are brutal again, then fans get to watch a better team on TV. No matter to me as I'll be at all of them but still, just sayin'..

 

 

I reiterate this person's thoughts even though I will NOT be at all of them. I live too far away to be effected by the black out rule (Binghamton). ...Just sayin'.

[The Senator]

These points are loudicrous. And the name calling and video don't strengthen your case. They only make you seem child like.

 

So I guess we place roughly the same value on each other's opinion. Works fine for me.

 

Enjoy watching whatever game-of-the-week FOX or CBS decide to give you for free on your fine, new, taxpayer-subsidized television set.

 

I'll be enjoying every Bills game from my seat at RWS. (They even give me a little hand-held TV for replays!)

 

GO BILLSSS!!!!

 

19 and 0 baby!!!!!

[BRAWNDO]

OK, now I'm just a Polish kid from Buffalo so you're gonna have to help me out with that one...

 

So it's stupid to think that the $1650 per seat invoice I receive from One Bills Drive doesn't represent a larger financial stake than the ersatz fan who is only willing to pay, oh, let's just pick an arbitrary number here...ZERO???

 

 

 

The TV contract revenue and how is it shared is a fixed amount and remains constant until the next network contract is negotiated, regardless of this new blackout policy - so how the heck does would the Bills agreeing to forgoe an additional percentage of their seat revenue change anything?

 

.

 

[PromoTheRobot]

Tbh I think both sides have a valid argument which makes this difficult. I think I have a solution though, what if blacked out games were available ppv? I don't need the games for free but can't afford to make the trip. I would be willing to pay and have a chance to watch the game as opposed to my options now. People that pay for the ticket should not have the blackout rule even apply to them as they are already putting money in the nfls pocket. I think this would make everyone happy and even though it's a cash grab many fans would be happy to have the opportunity - which as of now is lacking.

You make a good point. The NFL needs to look at more than just blackout rules. If you pay for ST you should be immune from blackouts.

 

PTR