Is Vince Young a wacko or just a player that needs coaching?

[HOUSE]

I haven't judged Thigpen based on preseason performance ... my problem with him is that the coaching staff didn't have the confidance in him to play him the week after the Redskins game ... if your starting QB gets broken ribs you just gotta send out the backup.

 

If the backup can't give the starter a week or two or three to heal what do you need a backup for???

 

IMHO the #2 spot belongs to VY unless he really poops the bed during training camp or preseason.

 

You nailed it!

[Homey D. Clown]

Wow, he must really suck, I assume you believe he has no future in Buffalo.

 

 

I honestly don't see him here after this season... just to give you a little perspective, my friends here laughed when the Bills signed him, and literally gave me unholy hell... they are titans fans, and were very happy to see him leave town.

[Mark Long Beach]

I think that everyone acknowledges that VY has an opportunity to win the backup job. Thigpen showed poorly in what little chances he was given and the coaching staff showed little confidence in him by not putting him in over an injured and struggling Fitz.

 

As for the OP question is he a wacko? Short answer is yes. He's physically dominant and IMO very determined/motivated. One of the main problems is that he's a little on the slow side for learning new things and for processing difficult coverages. So I think it'll be a tall order for him to be a top-flight QB. He also appears to have some mental/personality problems.

 

What we care about is if he can be a good backup or not.

 

IMO he can be with the right support. He didn't get it with Fisher who didn't want him. Couldn't get it as a backup in an ill-fitting offense in Philly. He might be able to get it here. We run a spread, which opens up the field for him to run or gives him lots of targets when the play breaks down and he extends the play via physical abilities. We also have Gailey who can work with limited QB's and make them reasonably successful. For a short period, teams won't have any film on VY and can't gameplan him much which helps him as he does have physical skills that give him a boost over his mental ones.

 

I think that Young COULD be an excellent backup and win us a couple games if need be. In the LONG run, If he successfully learns the offense I think he could replace Brad Smith as a Wildcat QB. But that's two years out IMO.

[HOUSE]

I think that everyone acknowledges that VY has an opportunity to win the backup job. Thigpen showed poorly in what little chances he was given and the coaching staff showed little confidence in him by not putting him in over an injured and struggling Fitz.

 

As for the OP question is he a wacko? Short answer is yes. He's physically dominant and IMO very determined/motivated. One of the main problems is that he's a little on the slow side for learning new things and for processing difficult coverages. So I think it'll be a tall order for him to be a top-flight QB. He also appears to have some mental/personality problems.

 

What we care about is if he can be a good backup or not.

 

IMO he can be with the right support. He didn't get it with Fisher who didn't want him. Couldn't get it as a backup in an ill-fitting offense in Philly. He might be able to get it here. We run a spread, which opens up the field for him to run or gives him lots of targets when the play breaks down and he extends the play via physical abilities. We also have Gailey who can work with limited QB's and make them reasonably successful. For a short period, teams won't have any film on VY and can't gameplan him much which helps him as he does have physical skills that give him a boost over his mental ones.

 

I think that Young COULD be an excellent backup and win us a couple games if need be. In the LONG run, If he successfully learns the offense I think he could replace Brad Smith as a Wildcat QB. But that's two years out IMO.

 

Well, the Bills have one year to access the talent or lack of.

[John from Riverside]

I still think he might make the perfect BACKUP QB

[HOUSE]

I still think he might make the perfect BACKUP QB

 

I can tell you for sure that some fans believe Young is the starter and Fitz is the perfect backup.

[TheBlackMamba]

I think his biggest problem is that he was always the best player/athlete on every team he's ever been on.

 

Then when he got to the NFL he just assumed that would continue and didnt want to put in the work in the film room and weight room to make the most of his abilities.

 

He realized that he's not the best player on the field and he has to learn how to prepare like a legitimate NFL quaterback (and not sand lot it like in high school and at Texas)he decided to quit on his team rather than put the work in.

 

I think maybe this off-season was a real bring back to earth moment for him when the Bills were the only team that really expressed any interest in him. Maybe he thinks "hey, this is my last shot, so I better shape up"...

[rstencel]

I haven't judged Thigpen based on preseason performance ... my problem with him is that the coaching staff didn't have the confidance in him to play him the week after the Redskins game ... if your starting QB gets broken ribs you just gotta send out the backup.

 

If the backup can't give the starter a week or two or three to heal what do you need a backup for???

 

IMHO the #2 spot belongs to VY unless he really poops the bed during training camp or preseason.

 

Really think Thigpen needs the training camp as much as anyone. Not sure if he was comfortable enough with the system last year to take over as starter. While don't think Thigpen is answer as a starter, do think he could do OK as short term fill in after gets comfortable with the system however.

 

Personally I think Vince Young signing was a huge mistake, and think the Bills will regret it by time its over. Yes he has a ton of natural talent, but guy is a cancer. The guy may say the right things to media now, but still doesn't get it with other players, and still doesn't get that it takes more than athletic talent to succeed in the NFL. For those that think he should take over Smiths roll, I don't think he has the ability to grasp the nueonses of the position to do the things that they want smith to do.

 

Im rooting for Thigpen to win the backup position myself, if you cant tell.

[HOUSE]

Really think Thigpen needs the training camp as much as anyone. Not sure if he was comfortable enough with the system last year to take over as starter. While don't think Thigpen is answer as a starter, do think he could do OK as short term fill in after gets comfortable with the system however.

 

Personally I think Vince Young signing was a huge mistake, and think the Bills will regret it by time its over. Yes he has a ton of natural talent, but guy is a cancer. The guy may say the right things to media now, but still doesn't get it with other players, and still doesn't get that it takes more than athletic talent to succeed in the NFL. For those that think he should take over Smiths roll, I don't think he has the ability to grasp the nueonses of the position to do the things that they want smith to do.

 

Im rooting for Thigpen to win the backup position myself, if you cant tell.

 

I doubt Thigpen will beat out Young. We also have the cap to consider. Young is cheaper....lol

[macaroni]

Really think Thigpen needs the training camp as much as anyone. Not sure if he was comfortable enough with the system last year to take over as starter. While don't think Thigpen is answer as a starter, do think he could do OK as short term fill in after gets comfortable with the system however.

 

Im rooting for Thigpen to win the backup position myself, if you cant tell.

 

Granted, Thigpen didn't have training camp last year ... but he DID have 4 preseason games and 7 regular season games to "get comfortable" with the system before we really needed him ... and when we REALLY needed him the coaching staff didn't see fit to send him in.

 

I am neither "anti Thigpen" nor "pro Young", shoot as a matter of fact they're both Bills so I'm rooting for both to do well. It really doesn't matter to me who the backup QB is as long as he is able to back up the starter.

 

All my point is that the coaches didn't use Thigpen when Fitz clearly shouldn't have been on the field for those few games after the Redskins game ... IMHO ... they gave up on him at that point.

[HOUSE]

I think his biggest problem is that he was always the best player/athlete on every team he's ever been on.

 

Then when he got to the NFL he just assumed that would continue and didnt want to put in the work in the film room and weight room to make the most of his abilities.

 

He realized that he's not the best player on the field and he has to learn how to prepare like a legitimate NFL quaterback (and not sand lot it like in high school and at Texas)he decided to quit on his team rather than put the work in.

 

I think maybe this off-season was a real bring back to earth moment for him when the Bills were the only team that really expressed any interest in him. Maybe he thinks "hey, this is my last shot, so I better shape up"...

[/quote

 

I believe you are spot on. Terrell Owens finally shut up when teams lost interest.

[shoretalk]

I was looking through the last 10 pages and there is almost nothing on Vince Young so I thought I would get your feelings on Buffalo's #2 quarterback.

 

I worked with a lot of people that made mistakes only to be labeled as trouble then fired. One is now President of a Bank in Houston Texas. Seems he had the skills but for some reason failed. People and players change over time. Some take an opportunity and run with it, some never change.

 

Let me give you my take on Vince Young. Played really well in Tennessee but hated Jeff Fisher. Also booed by the fans and he didn't handle it well. Played okay in Philadelphia but most of his interceptions were from throwing the ball on the run when he should have just lowered his head with a 5 yard gain. Pretty easy adjustment with the right coaching.

 

I remain undecided if he can regain his career or retire from the NFL as a backup. Vince Young is #3 in the NFL for accuracy on the long pass. See link.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/06/29/three-years-of-deep-passing/

 

With the proper coaching and motivation to change, I seriously doubt his career is over.

 

What is YOUR take on Vince Young, I can't predict the outcome....Could be waived after training camp or the starter by mid season...who knows?

 

Vince Young interview: "FRESH START"

 

youtube.com/watch?v=kvj1-kAxp0Y

Although we have been round and round with Vince Young what the heck another thread and another lengthy discussion.

 

Something happened to his mental ability to play the position back in Tennesee. We all know about tossing his equipment and the battles with Fisher.

 

Last year here in Eagles' Country everyone was excited to have him on what he made the mistake of labeling THE DREAM TEAM but when he had the chance to get into action he seemed to be confused, which is evident by panic in many of his passes that led to interceptions.

 

He brings a lot more to the table than Thigpen but the Bills run a very complicated offense so the real battle will be Vince versus Vince's ability to learn the Gailey system effectively enough to be worth the risk. It is clear that Young knows he needs help and his frequent references to coming to Buffalo because of Coach Lee show a degree of maturity and yes intelligence to me.

 

No, he will not be the midseason started unless he makes the team and Fitz gets hurt. This is Fitz's year.

 

By signing a one year contract, I think Young wants to show he can fit into a system, develop under Lee and then be a valuable asset on the free agent market next year putting his running abilities, long range passing skills and whatever Lee teaches him to use for some other team.

 

A good signing by the Bills ... if he makes the team he does add something special into our Wildcat concepts.

 

GO BILLS!

[HOUSE]

Although we have been round and round with Vince Young what the heck another thread and another lengthy discussion.

 

Something happened to his mental ability to play the position back in Tennesee. We all know about tossing his equipment and the battles with Fisher.

 

Last year here in Eagles' Country everyone was excited to have him on what he made the mistake of labeling THE DREAM TEAM but when he had the chance to get into action he seemed to be confused, which is evident by panic in many of his passes that led to interceptions.

 

He brings a lot more to the table than Thigpen but the Bills run a very complicated offense so the real battle will be Vince versus Vince's ability to learn the Gailey system effectively enough to be worth the risk. It is clear that Young knows he needs help and his frequent references to coming to Buffalo because of Coach Lee show a degree of maturity and yes intelligence to me.

 

No, he will not be the midseason started unless he makes the team and Fitz gets hurt. This is Fitz's year.

 

By signing a one year contract, I think Young wants to show he can fit into a system, develop under Lee and then be a valuable asset on the free agent market next year putting his running abilities, long range passing skills and whatever Lee teaches him to use for some other team.

 

 

A good signing by the Bills ... if he makes the team he does add something special into our Wildcat concepts.

 

GO BILLS!

 

 

I am sorry I missed your lengthy discussion, I am new to the board and I thought 2011 was Fitzpatrick's year ??

Edited July 11, 2012 by HOUSE

[ddaryl]

Pretty fair assessment in my opinion. Hope to watch this guy in preseason. Should be very interesting.

 

 

Me too.. I hope he does come around... I'm just not expecting much from him.. If anything a year or 2 in the Bills system might get him to the point where he can be dominant.

[HOUSE]

Me too.. I hope he does come around... I'm just not expecting much from him.. If anything a year or 2 in the Bills system might get him to the point where he can be dominant.

 

I find it exciting, could be a great player with some coaching. At least we have a backup that can play.

 

Thanks Daryl

[rstencel]

Granted, Thigpen didn't have training camp last year ... but he DID have 4 preseason games and 7 regular season games to "get comfortable" with the system before we really needed him ... and when we REALLY needed him the coaching staff didn't see fit to send him in.

 

I am neither "anti Thigpen" nor "pro Young", shoot as a matter of fact they're both Bills so I'm rooting for both to do well. It really doesn't matter to me who the backup QB is as long as he is able to back up the starter.

 

All my point is that the coaches didn't use Thigpen when Fitz clearly shouldn't have been on the field for those few games after the Redskins game ... IMHO ... they gave up on him at that point.

 

Very valid points, but my understanding of Thigpen is he isn't quickest to pickup systems, but when he finally does, understands it well. I'm hoping he does this year, as think he will be a better backup and teammate if he does pick it up than VY can be. That being said, I hold no illusions of him being any more than a short term backup.

 

I do understand VY has more upside, he just needs to change his personality and make up of human being and put the work in to really learn the system, and learn how defenses respond and adjust. Just hope we still have a strong enough locker room that he wont destroy what has been built chemistry wise while this is happening.

 

I personally think is battle for backup, not eventual starter or would be more inclined to root for VY. Do not think the winner of the backup field sees more than handfull of snaps barring injury. He definately has more potential physically, at least until he quits again.

Edited July 11, 2012 by rstencel

[caracara]

VY is the best QB on the roster, but that's only going by wins, stats, experience and accomplishments. I have to agree with the psychiatrist who weighed in earlier on this thread and diagnosed Vince with borderline personality disorder.

 

His signing is a huge question mark. Maybe we can keep him in a padded room and just pull him out when Buffalo plays the Giants or travels to Houston. He's never lost to NY or in Houston. Other than that lets stick with the proven commodities that have been successful so far. Hell of an intelligent thread.

[#34fan]

I think the OP who labeled VY "mentally weak" comes closest to the truth. I'm not a fan of Vince at all, but in this league, you simply cannot ignore superior physical ability. I think Fitzpatrick has the respect of other pros because of his sheer brainpower. Fitz is highly intelligent, thoughtful, well spoken. EVERYTHING I'd want in a son-in-law (save the beard).

 

However, once the ball snaps, it becomes clear that it isn't so much how complex you can think, but how fast. And even if you can think fast, -how quickly can you react?

 

VY beats Fitzpatrick HANDS DOWN in that department. Have a look.

 

 

 

To answer the thread's question, -yah, VY is a little nuts. -But so what? He's still done some pretty amazing things on a football field. -If he can bring his mental game up just a few notches, I think VY could still deliver the goods.

Edited July 12, 2012 by #34fan

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I see Vince Young is a sore subject on this board. Must of been some bashing a few months back.

 

Wha, because people don't agree with you that he musta played well in Tenn 'cuz the team won?

 

Do I appear excited?

 

In your own words (and yeah, kinda, before that - but JMO)

 

I find it exciting, could be a great player with some coaching. At least we have a backup that can play.

 

VY has all the talent in the world and I'd love to see him succeed.

 

Make no mistake this is deeper gaps than a 1-off personality conflict with a coach and "easy coaching adjustment" to not throwing the ball on the run. The ball is being thrown on the run because he muffed on his pre snap read and doesn't understand his progressions. So everything breaks down and he has no choice but to scramble or heave.

 

Can he fix that? Yes, and I hope so, but it's going to take major committment and work, of the mental kind. He can do it if he really wants to.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Hopeful

[Hapless Bills Fan]

VY is the best QB on the roster, but that's only going by wins, stats, experience and accomplishments. I have to agree with the psychiatrist who weighed in earlier on this thread and diagnosed Vince with borderline personality disorder.

 

His signing is a huge question mark. Maybe we can keep him in a padded room and just pull him out when Buffalo plays the Giants or travels to Houston. He's never lost to NY or in Houston. Other than that lets stick with the proven commodities that have been successful so far. Hell of an intelligent thread.

 

I snorted Pinot Grigio on my keyboard after the first sentence. Ticked me off - it was a decent glass, deserving of consumption. If you'd have stopped after the comma, then we'd all know where we stand.

 

Wins? Yes, but we all know the team wins and loses. Well, we all should know this. Some of us don't get it.

Stats? Um, not exactly. Only if you cherry-pick. Check again.

Experience? In terms of opportunities to start and lead a team, sure. How has he utilized his experience and opportunities? That matters.

Accomplishments? sounds like another term for "team wins"

 

You're a bit too obvious with the sar chasm*** in the 2nd paragraph but I'll take it at face value. No padded room is needed. Wins against Giants and Texans were team wins. The Bills are a team trying to build something. They have yet to be completely successful - they won in the 1st part of the season when the offense played out of its mind and compensated for poor defense, and lost when the offense had some bad games then regressed towards the ordinary. The offense wasn't bad last year. The defense sucked. Let's see what happens with a decent D.

 

And oh yes: I'm pulling for VY to succeed. He's very talented. What I'd really like to know: is VY "all in" to learning the offense and taking advantage of every opportunity he has to do it? Is he all about soaking up whatever he can from Fitz and Gailey? Or is part of him sulking in the shower all "damn it I'm the best QB on this team, no way I should be fighting to be #2" and "I went to the rosebowl, I went to the probowl, wtf has this 7th round draft pick got to show me?"

 

***it was actually a very nice try, except that you're thoroughly outed as a fiercely loyal Vince Young partisan.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Hopeful