tomato can Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 We are really suppose to believe this? I guess Walmart & McDonalds should have no trouble filling those $7.75 hours jobs now! http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/09/report-83-percent-of-doctors-have-considered-quitting-over-obamacare/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 We are really suppose to believe this? I guess Walmart & McDonalds should have no trouble filling those $7.75 hours jobs now! http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/09/report-83-percent-of-doctors-have-considered-quitting-over-obamacare/ Alot of Doctors, especially Internal Medicine have considered leaving WAY before the ACA was passed and held up in court. Why- because it is not like it used to be. Money is tigher, reimbursements are lower. And frankly, seeing 15 sick people in the AM, and another 15 in the PM and being a referral and paperwork machine sucks. Most of the physcians who come here to work, start out 3-4 days in clinic seeing pateints, then after a few years are down to 1 day, or even 1 half day and sill their time with research projects and other activities that involve not seeing patients. Healthcare is no different that any other industry, wages have stagnated or fallen over the the last 30 years, and MD's are doing more, working more with less. I mean, all the best should they quit. I am sure there will be numerous jobs paying 150-200K out there, and they can just take their pick...lol.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Intersting idea in the comment section. General Practice is where the money should be. Primary care physicians that can charge patients in cash don't have the overhead costs of dealing with insurance companies. A "Doc In The Box" practice consisting of two doctors, a nurse, and an office manager could have 3000 patients subscribing to a discount membership at $40/mo for women and $30/mo for men -- less than a cell phone plan -- that entitles them to a full physical wit bloodwork annually for women and biannually for men, with a $20 co-pay for any other office visit. Assuming a 4-day work week, with each doctor working 1500 hours per annum, that would leave 1250 hours available for 5000 other office visits, or enough time to see every patient an average of 1.6 times besides their annual checkup. That would provide total revenue to the practice of $1.36M. Figure $50K for the office mgr, $100K for the nurse, $50K for the office space, $60K for lights and supplies. Figure $300K for tests associated with the included physicals for 2250 patients each year (half the men and all the women). That leaves $350K for each doctor, which is double what Kaiser pays a GP. Malpractice insurance for GP's is not absurd like it is for OBGYN or other specialties. Usually less than $10k/yr. Everyone in this little practice is making good money, has a four day workweek of less than 40 hours ... what's not to like ? So ... would people be willing to pay less per month than they do for their cell plan to have access to their primary care physician without insurance rigamarole ? To see a doctor who is not stressed out, isn't trying to support a huge staff to do the paperwork of billing and pre-approvals, and includes full checkups at no extra charge ? People would still need catastrophic care insurance, but the big gap in affordable Primary Care that is still satisfyingly remunerative for GP doctors seems very feasible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Intersting idea in the comment section. one word for the article and especially this section: "bulls#$t". whoever wrote this never ran an office. one nurse for 2 docs seeing 5000+ pt per year is undoable. the nurse would need treatment for exhaustion after a week. doc's threaten quitting all the time. rarely do it and aren't likely to. there's no good alternative that pays as well. and despite romneys 15% investment returns i don't know any colleagues who've made any real ionvestment money in the last few years. now concierge practices are viable: rich folks paying big retainers for exclusive access. but that sliver of the population keeps getting smaller. it can support only so many docs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I mean, all the best should they quit. I am sure there will be numerous jobs paying 150-200K out there, and they can just take their pick...lol.... Why take another job when doctors have a decent bank account and can retire? A bigger problem isn't the doctors who are contemplating retirement. It's how this will discourage the best and brightest who would otherwise have gone into medicine. Getting an MD or DO requires considerable investment of time, energy, and personal commitment. Why bother if the rewards aren't what they used to be? Then as medical school rosters diminish, requirements to medical school will be lowered and some politician will propose a new taxpayer funded government program encouraging more people to enroll in medical school. The Dr Hibbards will be replaced by Dr Nicks. We'll probably start insourcing doctors from other countries too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 one word for the article and especially this section: "bulls#$t". whoever wrote this never ran an office. one nurse for 2 docs seeing 5000+ pt per year is undoable. the nurse would need treatment for exhaustion after a week. doc's threaten quitting all the time. rarely do it and aren't likely to. there's no good alternative that pays as well. and despite romneys 15% investment returns i don't know any colleagues who've made any real ionvestment money in the last few years. now concierge practices are viable: rich folks paying big retainers for exclusive access. but that sliver of the population keeps getting smaller. it can support only so many docs. My Doctor of 20 years quit because of it. He was 53. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Why take another job when doctors have a decent bank account and can retire? A bigger problem isn't the doctors who are contemplating retirement. It's how this will discourage the best and brightest who would otherwise have gone into medicine. Getting an MD or DO requires considerable investment of time, energy, and personal commitment. Why bother if the rewards aren't what they used to be? Then as medical school rosters diminish, requirements to medical school will be lowered and some politician will propose a new taxpayer funded government program encouraging more people to enroll in medical school. The Dr Hibbards will be replaced by Dr Nicks. We'll probably start insourcing doctors from other countries too dr nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 My Doctor of 20 years quit because of it. He was 53. you might wanna wait a few years before you use him as an example. seen several leave only to come back to the same job or something else in medicine. it's aharder to find greener grass than most think and few primary care docs have the resources at 53 to maintain the standard of living they're accustomed to. he may have used this as an excuse to find a new position. even if not, i'd be willing to bet he's an exception and there will continue to be plenty of well qualified applicants to med schools. afew might think twice about off shore expensive schools as a last resort but that would be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Declining salaries and increased regulatory burdens in medicine is what led me to a career in finance instead of going to med school, and this was 15 years ago. In retrospect I probably should have steered clear of the regulated industries all together and become a lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Declining salaries and increased regulatory burdens in medicine is what led me to a career in finance instead of going to med school, and this was 15 years ago. In retrospect I probably should have steered clear of the regulated industries all together and become a lawyer. On the principle of "Better to make the rules than be bound by them...?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Declining salaries and increased regulatory burdens in medicine is what led me to a career in finance instead of going to med school, and this was 15 years ago. In retrospect I probably should have steered clear of the regulated industries all together and become a lawyer. sorry, but if we lose applicants who are deciding between finance, law and medicine, which have very little in common except relatively high compensation, i see that as a win for patients. distilling the applicant pool down to those who really have a calling is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Why take another job when doctors have a decent bank account and can retire? A bigger problem isn't the doctors who are contemplating retirement. It's how this will discourage the best and brightest who would otherwise have gone into medicine. Getting an MD or DO requires considerable investment of time, energy, and personal commitment. Why bother if the rewards aren't what they used to be? Then as medical school rosters diminish, requirements to medical school will be lowered and some politician will propose a new taxpayer funded government program encouraging more people to enroll in medical school. The Dr Hibbards will be replaced by Dr Nicks. We'll probably start insourcing doctors from other countries too Then medicine is still and will continue to be a pretty good gig, right? As specialist, you can still earn 300k+ in almost any area, I am sure student will still be pretty intrigued by making 25K a month, and having bascially 100% job security.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I know many physicians who have retired early.........and stuck with it. I think that the "Oh sure, what else are they going to do? ' crowd is whistling past the graveyard. No, no where near 83% is really going to quit, but what if ten percent do ? We are (supposedly) adding 40 million uninsured to the system. ANY decline in ANY health care field will be disasterous. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I know many physicians who have retired early.........and stuck with it. I think that the "Oh sure, what else are they going to do? ' crowd is whistling past the graveyard. No, no where near 83% is really going to quit, but what if ten percent do ? We are (supposedly) adding 40 million uninsured to the system. ANY decline in ANY health care field will be disasterous. . hell, i'd retire early too, if i felt i could maintain my current lifestyle. i can't and few docs in their 50's can. like most other people, the more you make, the more you spend. "Medical Economics" did a survey fairly recently on the percentage of docs who felt financially able to retire. it didn't support your thesis. i doubt the numbers have improved in the last couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Then medicine is still and will continue to be a pretty good gig, right? As specialist, you can still earn 300k+ in almost any area, I am sure student will still be pretty intrigued by making 25K a month, and having bascially 100% job security.... I was referring to current doctors. But Okay, let's say it' still a high paying field which it will be. But will the rewards still justify the risks? Or as I suspect, will it turn the best and brightest away from the medical field? Will Dr Hibbard be allowed to charge more for his higher quality care or will he have to accept the same rates as Dr Nick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 83%? Is this like the libs crying about moving to Canada? See ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 sorry, but if we lose applicants who are deciding between finance, law and medicine, which have very little in common except relatively high compensation, i see that as a win for patients. distilling the applicant pool down to those who really have a calling is a good thing. How does artificial scarcity work in favor of patients? Furthermore, the notion of medicine as a calling is pie-in-the-sky utopian horseshit. Most doctors get into medicine because of the earning potential, the social prestige, a family legacy, the flexible schedule, or some combination of those. Doctors are people just like the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Most doctors get into medicine because of the earning potential, the social prestige, a family legacy, the flexible schedule, or some combination of those. some get into it for those reasons (except the flexible schedule which is a truly ridiculous thing to write) but they're likely the ones talking about leaving now. and when they do the calculus (and given their nature they will) they'll likely stay put. as far as this same group being less likely to choose medicine as a career, i stand by my earlier statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I know many physicians who have retired early.........and stuck with it. I think that the "Oh sure, what else are they going to do? ' crowd is whistling past the graveyard. No, no where near 83% is really going to quit, but what if ten percent do ? We are (supposedly) adding 40 million uninsured to the system. ANY decline in ANY health care field will be disasterous. Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) some get into it for those reasons (except the flexible schedule which is a truly ridiculous thing to write) but they're likely the ones talking about leaving now. and when they do the calculus (and given their nature they will) they'll likely stay put. as far as this same group being less likely to choose medicine as a career, i stand by my earlier statement. Why is the flexible schedule truly ridiculous? Affluent people often place a high priority on the ability to use that affluence at their leisure. Your unsupported fiat declaration not withstanding. Additionally, as I asked you before, please explain to me how creating an artificial scarcity of healthcare providers helps patients? It isn't a piece of paper that says you have medical coverage that provides you with access to healthcare. It's the availability of a competent doctor to treat you when you need it. I can have a legal document that entitles me to ownership of all the pirate gold you have stored in your basement, but if you don't have any pirate gold in your basement what good does my piece of paper do me? Edited July 10, 2012 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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