IDBillzFan Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I take it you're not the head of anything. More to the point, the leader of anything. There are plenty of people who are the head of things and lead no one. Emmanual and Obama, for example. They get put into places they don't belong by people who think they're smarter than they really are to do things that, unfortunately, require leadership qualities that these people just don't have. I've said it before and will continue to say it: people like Obama and Emmanual are like the worst employees you've ever known; no self-accountability, quick to blame when things go wrong and quick to take credit when things go right. Too afraid to admit their short-comings, too stupid to know it's a virtue. And yet somehow they get put in a position of authority, and the only upside is that you can quickly weed out more useless employees by watching the ones who try to catch a ride on the tailwinds of these "bosses." It's one of the reasons you see other politicians abandoning the Obama tailwind lately. No one wants to be caught wearing the "I'm with stupid" t-shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 More to the point, the leader of anything. There are plenty of people who are the head of things and lead no one. Emmanual and Obama, for example. They get put into places they don't belong by people who think they're smarter than they really are to do things that, unfortunately, require leadership qualities that these people just don't have. I've said it before and will continue to say it: people like Obama and Emmanual are like the worst employees you've ever known; no self-accountability, quick to blame when things go wrong and quick to take credit when things go right. Too afraid to admit their short-comings, too stupid to know it's a virtue. And yet somehow they get put in a position of authority, and the only upside is that you can quickly weed out more useless employees by watching the ones who try to catch a ride on the tailwinds of these "bosses." It's one of the reasons you see other politicians abandoning the Obama tailwind lately. No one wants to be caught wearing the "I'm with stupid" t-shirt. The liberal go-to excuse is to blame someone else. It's like when my kids do something wrong and I ask who did it, they each point to the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Personal shots already? That didn't take long. It wasn't a personal shot as much as it was an observation. And one I question, given that your post was, if not dripping with sarcasm, then at least seeping with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) Good point. Personal shots already? That didn't take long. Dude if you're going to be that thinned skinned you best stay over at the comfy confines if TSW. My point is if you're any kind of leader at the top you are responsible for all those below you. I have training managers and managing partners below me but I take 100% responsibility for my regional office. Edited July 11, 2012 by Chef Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 If that's what I think, then clearly, you believe that Rahm Emanuel and only Rahm Emanuel is to blame for Chicago's violence. If you're going to make bone-headed assertions on somebody else's behalf, it's only fitting when others return the favor. Rahm Emanuel has done nothing but continue/enhance the same failed policies that started Chicago down the path its on. His leadership is akin to rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. The only people who apologize for politicians are those who are too stupid to realize how the world actually works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 It wasn't a personal shot as much as it was an observation. And one I question, given that your post was, if not dripping with sarcasm, then at least seeping with it. Oozing. Dude if you're going to be that thinned skimmed you best stay over at the comfy confines if TSW. My point is if you're any kind of leader at the top you are responsible for all those below you. I have training managers and managing partners below me but I take 100% responsibility for my regional office. As DC would say: just an observation. But you're a big bad man, so if it pleases you, bark all you like. Rahm Emanuel has done nothing but continue/enhance the same failed policies that started Chicago down the path its on. His leadership is akin to rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. The only people who apologize for politicians are those who are too stupid to realize how the world actually works. You know, at least when DC Tom spouts off, he has SOME frame of reference. I'm curious as to which specifically policies you're referring to. Because where I sit--15 feet from a former Daley staffer who spends 60% of his workday at City Hall, mostly on the fifth floor--Rahm and Preckwinkle have done as about as close to a political 180 that the Chicago machine will allow. But I'll bet you read the S-T and Trib cover to cover every day, so who am I to argue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 More to the point, the leader of anything. There are plenty of people who are the head of things and lead no one. Emmanual and Obama, for example. They get put into places they don't belong by people who think they're smarter than they really are to do things that, unfortunately, require leadership qualities that these people just don't have. I've said it before and will continue to say it: people like Obama and Emmanual are like the worst employees you've ever known; no self-accountability, quick to blame when things go wrong and quick to take credit when things go right. Too afraid to admit their short-comings, too stupid to know it's a virtue. And yet somehow they get put in a position of authority, and the only upside is that you can quickly weed out more useless employees by watching the ones who try to catch a ride on the tailwinds of these "bosses." It's one of the reasons you see other politicians abandoning the Obama tailwind lately. No one wants to be caught wearing the "I'm with stupid" t-shirt. So, when I say that Rahm is getting wrongly blasted for this, it means HE isn't taking accountability? (Let me add, I did not vote for Rahm) I guess you missed the part when HE got up and addressed the violence spike rather than leaving it up to the police to answer to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 As DC would say: just an observation. But you're a big bad man, so if it pleases you, bark all you like. So ok you've never lead (sorry LA, that's what I really meant) other than the pledge of allegiance because if you had you'd get my point. A good leader doesn't address the situation they take responsibily for it, own it, and plan for it's improvement. But time and time again these guys are pointing the finger at others for the challenges they face. A good leader looks at challenges as just that. I was taught early on in this career that there are no such things as problems, only challenges that need to be overcome. Once you look at things that way you start to lead or at least take responsibility for making things better. I remember a politician from a few years ago said "the buck stops here". That's what he was referring to. Leadership is an art and some just don't have it like the folks in this story. So, when I say that Rahm is getting wrongly blasted for this, it means HE isn't taking accountability? (Let me add, I did not vote for Rahm) I guess you missed the part when HE got up and addressed the violence spike rather than leaving it up to the police to answer to... And there you go. He addressed the violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 So ok you've never lead (sorry LA, that's what I really meant) other than the pledge of allegiance because if you had you'd get my point. A good leader doesn't address the situation they take responsibily for it, own it, and plan for it's improvement. But time and time again these guys are pointing the finger at others for the challenges they face. A good leader looks at challenges as just that. I was taught early on in this career that there are no such things as problems, only challenges that need to be overcome. Once you look at things that way you start to lead or at least take responsibility for making things better. I remember a politician from a few years ago said "the buck stops here". That's what he was referring to. Leadership is an art and some just don't have it like the folks in this story. And there you go. He addressed the violence. Yeah, he got up and "lead." He publicly acknowledged the problem, thereby acknowledging it's on him to fix it. So great, I'm glad we all agree on the perceived reality. Meanwhile, the reality is, gang violence in Chicago is a systemic scourge that ONE MAN IS NOT GOING TO FIX. It's also been going on so long that it's not ONE MAN'S FAULT. But, I wouldn't expect anyone on this board to see beyond on their own right-leaning nose long enough to do something OTHER than saddle all the blame on a politician who might run against the guy they'd vote for (Rahm 2016) You, LA, and AD live at least two-time zones away from Chicago (has Alaska made it to 2012 yet? ), yet you talk out your collective asses on this issue and you expect me to believe your relentless, un-informed criticism has NOTHING to do with Rahm's affiliation with Obama or the Democratic party at large? But instead of owning up to partisanship, you distill the argument to a myopically naive perspective, spewing this crap about "the buck stops here" (apparently now when a politician gets in front of a microphone, he/she is telling the truth), and then ultimately skew the discussion back to my leadership qualities, or apparent lack thereof. Come on, fellas. Doesn't this **** get old after awhile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Oozing. I didn't want to be cliche, I wanted to change it up. And "seeping" seemed more disgusting to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Yeah, he got up and "lead." He publicly acknowledged the problem, thereby acknowledging it's on him to fix it. So great, I'm glad we all agree on the perceived reality. Meanwhile, the reality is, gang violence in Chicago is a systemic scourge that ONE MAN IS NOT GOING TO FIX. It's also been going on so long that it's not ONE MAN'S FAULT. But, I wouldn't expect anyone on this board to see beyond on their own right-leaning nose long enough to do something OTHER than saddle all the blame on a politician who might run against the guy they'd vote for (Rahm 2016) You, LA, and AD live at least two-time zones away from Chicago (has Alaska made it to 2012 yet? ), yet you talk out your collective asses on this issue and you expect me to believe your relentless, un-informed criticism has NOTHING to do with Rahm's affiliation with Obama or the Democratic party at large? But instead of owning up to partisanship, you distill the argument to a myopically naive perspective, spewing this crap about "the buck stops here" (apparently now when a politician gets in front of a microphone, he/she is telling the truth), and then ultimately skew the discussion back to my leadership qualities, or apparent lack thereof. Come on, fellas. Doesn't this **** get old after awhile? Yes it does get old when people talk as if they're the only ones that know about certain situation. So you live in Chicago so you are the only one that knows about and understands the issue of urban violence? I just moved into the hills over Oakland. I think it's safe to say if any city can give Chicago a run for it's money it's Oakland. And please point to where I laid any blame on any one for the violence. Point to where any of us (Me, Darin, LA) laid the blame on any one person. But it is up to one person to own the problem and take responsibility for working on a fix. That's what a leader does and our governments are sorely lacking in the leadership role. So he acknowledged there's a problem. Great...no **** Sherlock. But acknowledging there's a problem and acknowledging it's on him to fix it are two VERY different things. Now I did not hear him speak and if he did say it's on him to fix it I'll give him credit. But until then...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Yes it does get old when people talk as if they're the only ones that know about certain situation. So you live in Chicago so you are the only one that knows about and understands the issue of urban violence? I just moved into the hills over Oakland. I think it's safe to say if any city can give Chicago a run for it's money it's Oakland. And please point to where I laid any blame on any one for the violence. Point to where any of us (Me, Darin, LA) laid the blame on any one person. But it is up to one person to own the problem and take responsibility for working on a fix. That's what a leader does and our governments are sorely lacking in the leadership role. So he acknowledged there's a problem. Great...no **** Sherlock. But acknowledging there's a problem and acknowledging it's on him to fix it are two VERY different things. Now I did not hear him speak and if he did say it's on him to fix it I'll give him credit. But until then...... And acknowledging the problem but blaming it on the last guy is definitely not leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 And acknowledging the problem but blaming it on the last guy is definitely not leadership. And that's what really fried my balls. Now we may be getting this completely out of context (yeah, like that's never happened before) but I'm really tired of the blame game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Yes it does get old when people talk as if they're the only ones that know about certain situation. So you live in Chicago so you are the only one that knows about and understands the issue of urban violence? I just moved into the hills over Oakland. I think it's safe to say if any city can give Chicago a run for it's money it's Oakland. And please point to where I laid any blame on any one for the violence. Point to where any of us (Me, Darin, LA) laid the blame on any one person. But it is up to one person to own the problem and take responsibility for working on a fix. That's what a leader does and our governments are sorely lacking in the leadership role. So he acknowledged there's a problem. Great...no **** Sherlock. But acknowledging there's a problem and acknowledging it's on him to fix it are two VERY different things. Now I did not hear him speak and if he did say it's on him to fix it I'll give him credit. But until then...... Right. Until then, it's !@#$ed up. People--LOTS of people--are DYING. Meanwhile, our city-wide and statewide economies are totally !@#$ed too. Nobody has a damn job, major companies are fleeing for Indiana and Wisconsin where they'll get tax breaks, it's a damn mess. I know the Democratic talking point of inheriting a mess now falls on deaf ears, but Blago and the Daley machine did this state/city no favors. This violence thing is just a big old kick in the nuts. And that's what really fried my balls. Now we may be getting this completely out of context (yeah, like that's never happened before) but I'm really tired of the blame game. Ugh, I hear you on this. But when a problem decades in the making isn't solved within 6 months and the political opposition is pounding their talking points at the guy in charge, seemingly unaware of the time it'll take to get things fixed, what do you do? Sit there and take it? So who do we blame for playing the blame game? The ones blaming present politicians for not immediately solving the longitudinal problems leftover from previous administrations or the leaders for "blaming" the previous administrations for delaying the repair process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Right. Until then, it's !@#$ed up. People--LOTS of people--are DYING. Meanwhile, our city-wide and statewide economies are totally !@#$ed too. Nobody has a damn job, major companies are fleeing for Indiana and Wisconsin where they'll get tax breaks, it's a damn mess. I know the Democratic talking point of inheriting a mess now falls on deaf ears, but Blago and the Daley machine did this state/city no favors. This violence thing is just a big old kick in the nuts. Then leave ya big cry baby. No one's keeping you there. That's the beauty of this big country of ours. You don't like how your state is run leave. I live in CA and we're totally !@#$ed but I'm a glass half full kind of guy and I love what CA has to offer to me so I'm staying. At least until I retire that is. And did you think that the Dem talking point of inheriting the mess is falling on deaf ears is because we've heard it too much? If it's too tough to change the problem why take the job. Rahm never had to leave the WH to run for this position. I know, I know....leading is hard. Ugh, I hear you on this. But when a problem decades in the making isn't solved within 6 months and the political opposition is pounding their talking points at the guy in charge, seemingly unaware of the time it'll take to get things fixed, what do you do? Sit there and take it? So who do we blame for playing the blame game? The ones blaming present politicians for not immediately solving the longitudinal problems leftover from previous administrations or the leaders for "blaming" the previous administrations for delaying the repair process? No one is looking for a quick fix. What they're looking for is a plan. You know.....leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Then leave ya big cry baby. No one's keeping you there. That's the beauty of this big country of ours. You don't like how your state is run leave. I live in CA and we're totally !@#$ed but I'm a glass half full kind of guy and I love what CA has to offer to me so I'm staying. At least until I retire that is. And did you think that the Dem talking point of inheriting the mess is falling on deaf ears is because we've heard it too much? If it's too tough to change the problem why take the job. Rahm never had to leave the WH to run for this position. I know, I know....leading is hard. I know you like to assume nobody's keeping me here, and that I'm throwing myself a big fat pity party, but--as usual--both of those rationales are entirely false. And again with the strawmans. Nobody out there is saying it's too hard, that's a lot different than acknowledging the difficulty. You only hear what you want to hear, and you spin it to have something to argue against. No wonder you guys are pissed all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveinElma Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 Chicago police sergeant: "Tribal warfare" on the streets http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57470618/chicago-police-sergeant-tribal-warfare-on-the-streets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Chicago police sergeant: "Tribal warfare" on the streets http://www.cbsnews.c...-on-the-streets Let me guess, Hutus & Tutsis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Let me guess, Hutus & Tutsis? My favorite candy, get the carmel ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Who's to blame? Richard Nixon. These people are shooting each other over drugs, plain and simple. Nothing else can offer anywhere close to the rate of return as selling drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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