tomato can Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Good article about infrastructure projects. After careful consideration I am going to take the conservative approach about these projects. Tax payers can't afford the costs associated with these projects. Plus there is really no new net wealth created. These mega projects are turning to private investors to fund them. But hey the schools systems are failing, why build new schools? The bridges might be old, but throw some paint on them and they will last another 40 years. I also noticed at the end of the article that Indiana's great Govenor MD privitzied their toll ways and the prices doubled. Illinois dems took a lot of heat for doing this to pay the bills. Looks like Indiana repubs quietly did the same thing in 2006 to pay the bills. http://southtownstar.suntimes.com/business/13688116-420/more-mega-projects-turning-to-private-investors.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 The problem is, governments and politicians look at "maegaprojects" as a badge of honor that they can tell people that they were responsible for getting them built (and "improving the area" as well). Here's a great example from Buffalo: http://www.buffalonews.com/city/communities/downtown/article886496.ece Here we have a $300 million building built by the University of Buffalo. We can discuss whether this building is needed at all, but even if is needed, look at the photo. Why is a four-story atrium needed? Custom-made glass? This building could have easily been built for half, or even a quarter of the price. But, it's an "important" project that improves "education". And god forbid that you "oppose" education! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomato can Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 The problem is, governments and politicians look at "maegaprojects" as a badge of honor that they can tell people that they were responsible for getting them built (and "improving the area" as well). Here's a great example from Buffalo: http://www.buffalonews.com/city/communities/downtown/article886496.ece Here we have a $300 million building built by the University of Buffalo. We can discuss whether this building is needed at all, but even if is needed, look at the photo. Why is a four-story atrium needed? Custom-made glass? This building could have easily been built for half, or even a quarter of the price. But, it's an "important" project that improves "education". And god forbid that you "oppose" education! Of course they do! They all want to grandstand! I don't buy into that grandstanding. I give the credit to the hard working men and women who used their trade skills to build that. Everyone knows that its the tax payers money that was used to build these things, they made it possible. The only thing the pols made possible was the news conference to say they made it happen. My point really was when the Feds fund these projects, or states & city governments put up bonds to do these projects people cry its a waste of money to keep the public sector unions working or its doesnt create any economic growth and no new net wealth because its just a transfer of money. Know these states and cities can't fund a lot of these projects, the JP Morgans and Citigroup, and some others are like a slobbering dog over a bowl of water on a hot day getting these multi-billion dollar trust lined up to fund these projects. Yes they are going to build it much cheaper using cheap materials and cut corners, but they are going to charge triple the price to do it. All so there shareholders stocks go threw the roof and they can make mint! And the cheerleaders will come out, thats economic growth and how you create new net wealth! Yet the money is still be transered from the tax payers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Of course they do! They all want to grandstand! I don't buy into that grandstanding. I give the credit to the hard working men and women who used their trade skills to build that. Everyone knows that its the tax payers money that was used to build these things, they made it possible. The only thing the pols made possible was the news conference to say they made it happen. My point really was when the Feds fund these projects, or states & city governments put up bonds to do these projects people cry its a waste of money to keep the public sector unions working or its doesnt create any economic growth and no new net wealth because its just a transfer of money. Know these states and cities can't fund a lot of these projects, the JP Morgans and Citigroup, and some others are like a slobbering dog over a bowl of water on a hot day getting these multi-billion dollar trust lined up to fund these projects. Yes they are going to build it much cheaper using cheap materials and cut corners, but they are going to charge triple the price to do it. All so there shareholders stocks go threw the roof and they can make mint! And the cheerleaders will come out, thats economic growth and how you create new net wealth! Yet the money is still be transered from the tax payers! Except this doesn't create net new wealth either. You're just outsourcing the financing for the projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Of course they do! They all want to grandstand! I don't buy into that grandstanding. I give the credit to the hard working men and women who used their trade skills to build that. Everyone knows that its the tax payers money that was used to build these things, they made it possible. The only thing the pols made possible was the news conference to say they made it happen. My point really was when the Feds fund these projects, or states & city governments put up bonds to do these projects people cry its a waste of money to keep the public sector unions working or its doesnt create any economic growth and no new net wealth because its just a transfer of money. Know these states and cities can't fund a lot of these projects, the JP Morgans and Citigroup, and some others are like a slobbering dog over a bowl of water on a hot day getting these multi-billion dollar trust lined up to fund these projects. Yes they are going to build it much cheaper using cheap materials and cut corners, but they are going to charge triple the price to do it. All so there shareholders stocks go threw the roof and they can make mint! And the cheerleaders will come out, thats economic growth and how you create new net wealth! Yet the money is still be transered from the tax payers! You really know nothing about how a contractor bids on a job, do you? Have you ever seen your highway department bidding on a job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinga Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Infrastructure??? Just another boondoggle for politicians... Look... we pay enough in fuel, water, sewer, and all the other tax excise taxes alone to pay for this crap. But instead of earmarking the money, just for that purpose, the gov spends it as they want. Evidence the 300 million building, mentioned above, that has absolutely nothing to do with "infrastructure" but apparently, was included in the bill to pay for our roads, bridges, and sewer/water systems... Heck, didn't the "stimulus" money catch us up on infrastructure? Shovel ready? What a line of Schlit huh?? Another example?? how bout SS??? pay the money in, and our gubment puts it into a "lock box" for your retirement... That box now has a bunch of IOUs in it, that guess who gets to pay back.... YOU!!! Ain't it fun!!! Wonder why SS is in trouble??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) You really know nothing about how a contractor bids on a job, do you? Have you ever seen your highway department bidding on a job? Are you saying there are no in-house bids? From what I have seen the in-house bids are very important... Keeps the private sector honest. Not exactly the highway department, but in early 1980's the USACE put themselves in a bad spot when it came to Great Lakes dredge ops. The Corps contracted everything and didn't keep an in-house crew/floating plants to match bids... The fleet was dismantled... A few years passed by, with no in-house competition, the contracts soared 300%. I would think highway departments that are full service would at least have an in-house crew to keep prices in-line. Even in the line of work I am in now... The in-house work crew/floating plant bids on maintenance work. Edited July 12, 2012 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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