Bill from NYC Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 OK once and for all trent always sucked, he succeeded in winning games early for one reason, he had a quick delivery and threw 5 yarders well. At the time Jp used to wait and wait and try to go deep. Edwards came in and threw to running backs, something JP almost never tried. It was something we all wanted but never got until trent came in. This is when Jackson "emerged" after taking short passes to the house. Even when we won and were 5-1 I said,"how is this possible, this QB doesnt throw past 5 yards" when the opposing defenses and coaches saw this, it was game over for edwards. Hes a total fraud, and never was good regardless of coaching or concussions. Our offense played long ball, and JP scrabled, it was a lack of opposing defenses understanding trents pu$$y a$$ game that allowed him to briefly succeed. You see, the bolded above is not true. Losman did try short passes. He would drill them in 110 miles per hour, throw them into the ground like infield practice, or toss them into the stands. Every time he rolled right was a disaster waiting to happen. In this thread you continue to blast Edwards, and I don't blame you. He was a failure. But let's also keep it real in terms of Losman. He too was an awful quarterback, and Edwards, as bad as he really was, had more wins than JP in fewer starts.
loserlovers Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) You see, the bolded above is not true. Losman did try short passes. He would drill them in 110 miles per hour, throw them into the ground like infield practice, or toss them into the stands. Every time he rolled right was a disaster waiting to happen. In this thread you continue to blast Edwards, and I don't blame you. He was a failure. But let's also keep it real in terms of Losman. He too was an awful quarterback, and Edwards, as bad as he really was, had more wins than JP in fewer starts. ya i never say JP was good. I say his style for 3 years, and even bledsoes, was to go deep and midrange. We kept wanting the running backs involved more in the passing game and it really didnt happen for 5 years in a row. When trent subbed for JP his style was so contrasting to jp's that it worked. I rooted for him at the end of his first season. When we got to 5-1 we were winning via the RB's breaking screen passes, big runs, field goals and even fake punts along with decent defense. I still kept thinkin,"how are we doing this? the ball never goes downfield, not even 10 yards and were 5-1?" the next game it was an utter joke and trenty only won two more times in his career, one was against denver, the worst defense in the league that year. He won 3 more games than JP in his career but gave us three MNF disasters. The dallas and cleveland and New england were close losses, only because trent wasted a 5 pick game by our D, lynch kept breaking big gains against the browns, and Jackson did the same against the Pats, all screens baby. New england forgot that they didnt need to defend the whole field and almost let us steal one. Trent ruined 2+ years of football, and gave us three horrible memories to boot. Even with videos,songs, fan(hate) mail etc. His last play for the bills was to throw a ball over his head and run out of bounds and throw a 2 yarder on 4rth and 19. Concussions dont steal your manhood do they? What a joke he is. Edited July 11, 2012 by loserlovers
Cynical Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 He complained after the bye? Well in the next two games, they they allowed him a TOTAL of 27 attempts. Was he complaining that his arm was getting tired and to limit the pass plays? Was he benched after those 2 games? No? The fact he threw only 27 times in those 2 games is irrelevant because he played 7 more games. Look at the aggregate. Hence, 1st vs 2nd half. The Bills threw the ball 431 times that year. JP chucked it 429 of those 431. Since JP threw every ball except 2 for the entire season, if the Bills had intended to minimize JP by having him throw less (as you are trying to claim - 27 times in 2 games!), you would see a shift down in the total number of attempts from the first half to second half. But that does not happen. 213 vs 218. Slight up tick. But wait! Since passing is only one aspect of an offense, we need to look at the other: rushing. It's possible that JP could have approximately the same number of pass attempts, and a smaller role, if the Bills ran more offensive plays in the second half vs the first half. Theoretically, the passing attempts would stay flat, but the number of rushing attempts would go up. Survey says: 212 vs 208. Oops, that didn't happen either. Slight down tick. Compare that to 2011 Bills: 1st half - 261 passes to 217 running 2nd half - 317 passes to 174 running That's a shift, and it matches the perception many people have that the Bills started to abandon the running game in the second part of the year. Do you really not see the difference in how the pass play calling was after the bye? You don't see how he had 4 times as many games under 20 as before? So he a couple of long bombs in the second half. So what? He always took shots down field--that was his only skill. Yes, but there is a difference in doing it once a game vs 3-4 a game. From the first half of the season to the second, JP threw the ball the same number of times, he had approx the same completion %, but he passed for 300+ more yards in the second half. During the same year, they ran the ball for 212 times and av 100 yds/game in the first half. In the second half, they ran the ball 208 times, and the av per game fell to 93. Yeah, something changed, but not what you trying to pass off. In the Miami game his longest pass was 37 yards. He had 2 passes that traveled over 30 yards in the air (both on the same drive). The rest were dink and dunks under 10 yards. The Bills ran 37 times that gam e against 19 pass plays. Jesus. This just proves how effective JP was. He threw 3 TDs. How was the running game? 37 times, 2.7 avg, ZERO TD's. Who did the Bills rely on to win that game? Losman was just awful. He was mentally lazy (I'm giving credit and not calling him just dumb). He wasn't a student of the game and that rested solely on his shoulders, not any coach's. There was never any evidence that he studied film, the playbook--anything. No amount of fantasy can change history. This has what to do with anything? I haven't disagreed with this. Losman was only good at chucking it down field. When the team started to do that more often in the second half of 2006, he became more productive. What a shocking concept and revelation. Losman was a one dimensional player, and when the opposing defenses finally figured that out, his numbers and his career went down hill.
Ramius Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) He complained after the bye? Well in the next two games, they they allowed him a TOTAL of 27 attempts. Was he complaining that his arm was getting tired and to limit the pass plays? Do you really not see the difference in how the pass play calling was after the bye? You don't see how he had 4 times as many games under 20 as before? So he a couple of long bombs in the second half. So what? He always took shots down field--that was his only skill. In the Miami game his longest pass was 37 yards. He had 2 passes that traveled over 30 yards in the air (both on the same drive). The rest were dink and dunks under 10 yards. The Bills ran 37 times that gam e against 19 pass plays. Losman was just awful. He was mentally lazy (I'm giving credit and not calling him just dumb). He wasn't a student of the game and that rested solely on his shoulders, not any coach's. There was never any evidence that he studied film, the playbook--anything. No amount of fantasy can change history. So the Bills "took the ball out of Losman's hands" by having him throw the same number of passes in the second half of the season as the first? The ONLY difference in the pass playcalling in the second half was that dickless jauron allowed JP to run around and chuck the ball downfield, his main strength. Notice how dickless reigned in JP in 2007, and he looked like garbage. Also, the comment about not watching film is pure garbage. You honestly think he didn't study the playbook or film? He's not billy joe hobert. Complete bull ****. He just wasn't a very good QB outside of the deep ball. None of that has anything to do with you making up complete falsehoods in an attempt to denigrate him. You see, the bolded above is not true. Losman did try short passes. He would drill them in 110 miles per hour, throw them into the ground like infield practice, or toss them into the stands. Every time he rolled right was a disaster waiting to happen. In this thread you continue to blast Edwards, and I don't blame you. He was a failure. But let's also keep it real in terms of Losman. He too was an awful quarterback, and Edwards, as bad as he really was, had more wins than JP in fewer starts. Edwards was laughably awful. At least JP tried to win, instead of checking down or throwing the ball away on 3rd down. Edwards' best season (2008) wasn't anywhere close to JP's best season (2006). Edited July 11, 2012 by Ramius
atlbillsfan1975 Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 So the Bills "took the ball out of Losman's hands" by having him throw the same number of passes in the second half of the season as the first? The ONLY difference in the pass playcalling in the second half was that dickless jauron allowed JP to run around and chuck the ball downfield, his main strength. Notice how dickless reigned in JP in 2007, and he looked like garbage. Also, the comment about not watching film is pure garbage. You honestly think he didn't study the playbook or film? He's not billy joe hobert. Complete bull ****. He just wasn't a very good QB outside of the deep ball. None of that has anything to do with you making up complete falsehoods in an attempt to denigrate him. Edwards was laughably awful. At least JP tried to win, instead of checking down or throwing the ball away on 3rd down. Edwards' best season (2008) wasn't anywhere close to JP's best season (2006). JP wins the tallest midget award! No offense to little people.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 12, 2012 Author Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) OK, dole me the gouge - what does "F5" signify? I poised the question, Name me one NFL QB who has had bad coaching in his career and became successful despite the bad coaching! " Meaning his entire career, but I thought you were able to grasp that because of your first response. Dude - not meaning to pick nits but I certainly didn't get "entire career" as a qualifier out of your question. I (along with others, clearly) read it as "QB who started out with bad coaching, and went on to find success despite that initial rough start", not " QB who never had good coaching all career long". To enable productive communication it helps if significant details which change meaning show up on the screen and not just in your own mind. It's simply silly to cast aspersions on others for not grasping a point you didn't make in the first place. HOPEFUL that you can see that! Why? 'cuz he obviously has some of the ingredients it takes to make an NFL QB, he was able to show good skills in flashes, I think he caught a bad break on coaching/offensive system in B'lo, and he seems like a decent guy - I'd like him to have a shot. (Just not in B'lo. That Skunkworks skit said it all) Overalll, from some of the points people have made about Foles not being PS material and Kafka getting 2nd team reps, I don't think he gets one in Philly. Edited July 12, 2012 by Hopeful
eball Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 OK, dole me the gouge - what does "F5" signify? It means someone is ground up and in the freezer. Or on his way to Chicago after eating at Tempo.
Mr. WEO Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 Was he benched after those 2 games? No? The fact he threw only 27 times in those 2 games is irrelevant because he played 7 more games. Look at the aggregate. Hence, 1st vs 2nd half. The Bills threw the ball 431 times that year. JP chucked it 429 of those 431. Since JP threw every ball except 2 for the entire season, if the Bills had intended to minimize JP by having him throw less (as you are trying to claim - 27 times in 2 games!), you would see a shift down in the total number of attempts from the first half to second half. But that does not happen. 213 vs 218. Slight up tick. But wait! Since passing is only one aspect of an offense, we need to look at the other: rushing. It's possible that JP could have approximately the same number of pass attempts, and a smaller role, if the Bills ran more offensive plays in the second half vs the first half. Theoretically, the passing attempts would stay flat, but the number of rushing attempts would go up. Survey says: 212 vs 208. Oops, that didn't happen either. Slight down tick. Compare that to 2011 Bills: 1st half - 261 passes to 217 running 2nd half - 317 passes to 174 running That's a shift, and it matches the perception many people have that the Bills started to abandon the running game in the second part of the year. Yes, but there is a difference in doing it once a game vs 3-4 a game. From the first half of the season to the second, JP threw the ball the same number of times, he had approx the same completion %, but he passed for 300+ more yards in the second half. During the same year, they ran the ball for 212 times and av 100 yds/game in the first half. In the second half, they ran the ball 208 times, and the av per game fell to 93. Yeah, something changed, but not what you trying to pass off. Jesus. This just proves how effective JP was. He threw 3 TDs. How was the running game? 37 times, 2.7 avg, ZERO TD's. Who did the Bills rely on to win that game? This has what to do with anything? I haven't disagreed with this. Losman was only good at chucking it down field. When the team started to do that more often in the second half of 2006, he became more productive. What a shocking concept and revelation. Losman was a one dimensional player, and when the opposing defenses finally figured that out, his numbers and his career went down hill. No, he wasn't benched, but his complaints resulted in two of his lowest attempts of the year. What point were you trting to make about his complaining during the bye? He was a one dimensional player. When they let pass over 30 times, they lost. When they restricted his passsing, they won. I don't know how else to put it. By limiting his passes (mostly dink and dunk) in the Miami game, he was more effective. By using the aggragate passing numbers you are purposefully ignoring the outcome of the different games in which he passed a lot or a little. So the Bills "took the ball out of Losman's hands" by having him throw the same number of passes in the second half of the season as the first? The ONLY difference in the pass playcalling in the second half was that dickless jauron allowed JP to run around and chuck the ball downfield, his main strength. Notice how dickless reigned in JP in 2007, and he looked like garbage. Also, the comment about not watching film is pure garbage. You honestly think he didn't study the playbook or film? He's not billy joe hobert. Complete bull ****. He just wasn't a very good QB outside of the deep ball. None of that has anything to do with you making up complete falsehoods in an attempt to denigrate him. Edwards was laughably awful. At least JP tried to win, instead of checking down or throwing the ball away on 3rd down. Edwards' best season (2008) wasn't anywhere close to JP's best season (2006). JP's strength was "running around"? He took tons of sacks, most them bad sacks because he held on to the ball too long trying to figure where his receivers not named Lee Evans were. He was not any good at slavaging broken plays (which were frequent) and could not think on his feet. If he did study the playbook and film, there is no evidence that he learned any of it. He was horrible at reading defenses (that film watching) and he struggled to go through progressions (that's studying the playbook). No one is saying Edwards was any better.
Captain Hindsight Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 It means someone is ground up and in the freezer. Or on his way to Chicago after eating at Tempo. Greatest thread ever
HOUSE Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) Trent Edwards....bad karma Edited July 12, 2012 by HOUSE
Orton's Arm Posted July 13, 2012 Posted July 13, 2012 So the Bills "took the ball out of Losman's hands" by having him throw the same number of passes in the second half of the season as the first? The ONLY difference in the pass playcalling in the second half was that dickless jauron allowed JP to run around and chuck the ball downfield, his main strength. Notice how dickless reigned in JP in 2007, and he looked like garbage. Also, the comment about not watching film is pure garbage. You honestly think he didn't study the playbook or film? He's not billy joe hobert. Complete bull ****. He just wasn't a very good QB outside of the deep ball. None of that has anything to do with you making up complete falsehoods in an attempt to denigrate him. Edwards was laughably awful. At least JP tried to win, instead of checking down or throwing the ball away on 3rd down. Edwards' best season (2008) wasn't anywhere close to JP's best season (2006). Not true. Edwards averaged 7.2 yards per attempt in 2008; while starting 14 games. Losman averaged 7.1 yards per attempt in 2006, while starting 16 games. Losman had a 1.36 TD:INT ratio, as compared to a 1.1 ratio for Edwards. On the other hand, Losman was sacked on 11% of his dropbacks, as opposed to 6% for Edwards. I'm not a big believer in QB rating, but for whatever it's worth Edwards' QB rating for 2008 was slightly higher than Losman's for 2006. Edwards in 2008 was about twice as effective at avoiding sacks as Losman had been in 2006. Other than that, the statistics from the two seasons in question were roughly comparable. (With Losman's slightly better TD:INT ratio being offset by Edwards' slightly higher yards per attempt.) Of the two, Edwards gets the nod for having had the better season. It's also worth noting that Edwards' 7.2 yards per attempt in 2008 is 0.4 yards more than Fitz's best season. While I hope Fitz becomes the answer, he needs to significantly improve his game before that will happen.
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