Trent Edwards the Eagle

[Coach Tuesday]

It really is sad that so many fans mostly blame the players for the lost decade 2000-2012. They all love to hate their favorite hated player, JP Losman, Trent Edwards, ( it must be the lousy QB that is the reason for losing, if only we had a franchise guy....right? ) Poz, Whitner, Lynch, Jason Peters, Dem Bell. While a select few blame the head coaches and the GM, or lack of a real GM.

 

Meanwhile the real culprit sits calmly in a different city watching his team make a sweet profit year after year... all the while not caring that his team is at the bottom of the division for 12 straight years. It still amazes me that this owner managed to be the wizard behind the curtain pulling all the strings, and yet all the fans blame everyone but him.

 

 

Really, seriously..Steve Young?

 

Steve Young sat on the bench behind Montana (87-90) while being coached up by perhaps the greatest, most innovative, brightest offensive mind the NFL has ever seen in Bill Walsh.

 

get a grip and try again.

 

Now you've proven that you don't know your football. Steve Young started out in the USFL, then signed with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and posted a 3-16 record as a starter under McKay's dysfunctional coaching regime, throwing 21 picks to 11 TDs and posting a completion percentage of 55%. THEN he went to SF to back up Montana.

 

You've lost the thread here bud - your post about Ralph proves it. No one disputes that the Bills' coaches have been terrible over the past decade, or that Ralph (until this offseason) refused to make a commitment to a winning product. You are not impressing anyone by stating the obvious. But where you lose it entirely is when you try to "prove" from those undisputed points that JP and Edwards were actually good QBs. I can't make this any simpler for you: YOUR LOGIC FAILS. Now take your ball and go home.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Coach Tuesday

[thewildrabbit]

Now you've proven that you don't know your football. Steve Young started out in the USFL, then signed with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and posted a 3-16 record as a starter, throwing 21 picks to 11 TDs and posting a completion percentage of 55%. THEN he went to SF to back up Montana.

 

You've lost the thread here bud - your post about Ralph proves it. No one disputes that the Bills' coaches have been terrible over the past decade, or that Ralph (until this offseason) refused to make a commitment to a winning product. You are not impressing anyone by stating the obvious. But where you lose it entirely is when you try to "prove" from those undisputed points that JP and Edwards were actually good QBs. I can't make this any simpler for you: YOUR LOGIC FAILS. Now take your ball and go home.

 

Gotta love the condescending attitude towards fellow Bills fans...

 

 

You are the are the one who named Ryan Fitzpatrick at first, a guy who has never even had a winning season! Then you name Steve Young! When the question posed was...name me a QB who had bad coaching and went on to succeed. I know his history, its why i stated he was coached up by Bill Walsh. Did you fail to understand this concept... I think so!

 

Hey Mr lacking in reading comprehension, go back and re read my posts. i never stated either one was a good QB. However, I did state that both looked like they were on the verge of becoming good QB and could have been, if not for the lack of quality coaching.You want to only state that both QB's sucked and there was no hope for either from the start. How can we know that when they were coached by morons?

 

Perhaps in your mind my logic fails! but then, I'll bet lots of logic fails there.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Name me one NFL QB who has had bad coaching in his career and became successful despite the bad coaching!

 

Steve Young.

 

arguably Matt Hasselbeck and Rich Gannon

[Hapless Bills Fan]

It really is sad that so many fans mostly blame the players for the lost decade 2000-2012. They all love to hate their favorite hated player. While a select few blame the head coaches and the GM, or lack of a real GM.

 

Really, seriously..Steve Young?

 

Steve Young sat on the bench behind Montana (87-90) while being coached up by perhaps the greatest, most innovative, brightest offensive mind the NFL has ever seen in Bill Walsh.

 

get a grip and try again.

 

It's a valid point that the buck ultimately stops at the team owner.

 

WRT Steve Young, I thought better of you, Beard. Before going to SF to sit on the bench, Steve Young spent 2 years in Tampa Bay racking up a 3-16 record and being widely crucified in the media as a bust. The TB coaching was not pretty.

 

Wasn't the question "name one QB who suffered from bad coaching early in his career and went on to find success?"

 

Steve Young is an obvious answer, from his years in TB. Failing to acknowledge this is not making you look very rational here.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Hopeful

[Coach Tuesday]

It's a valid point that the buck ultimately stops at the team owner.

 

WRT Steve Young, I thought better of you, Beard. Before going to SF to sit on the bench, Steve Young spent 2 years in Tampa Bay racking up a 3-16 record and being widely crucified in the media as a bust. The TB coaching was not pretty.

 

Wasn't the question "name one QB who suffered from bad coaching early in his career and went on to find success?"

 

Steve Young is an obvious answer, from his years in TB. Failing to acknowledge this is not making you look very rational here.

 

He's totally unhinged. I hate when someone wants to be right so badly that they fail to accept logic, and then try changing the argument altogether. Just admit you were wrong, ya know?

 

Also Vinnie Testaverde works as an answer to his question.

 

There are DOZENS of QBs who have overcome bad coaching early in their careers.

 

[/b]

How can we know that when they were coached by morons?

 

Is Andy Reid a moron? Because he's coaching Trent now.

 

Is Jon Gruden a moron? He couldn't salvage Rob Johnson.

 

Some players just suck, regardless of who is coaching them. Just accept it.

[Mark Vader]

Pay attention, it says trent edwards "eagle" which is current and newsworthy. The thread is about how most here know he will fail because he never was a good qb. Others here, with the wrong opinion, also say he will suck but blame bills coaching from 6 years ago...or a concussion. As if no one ever had a concussion and played well afterwards.

 

you fit into a third category, criticising us for talking about a topic too "old" so i guess we can only talk about 2012? just so you know you learn form your past not from your future and the past is factual, unless you pervert and make things up like "trent edwards had all the tools...until the arizona game" it seems the FO learned from, maybin,mckelvin and turdwards, and know we have Dareus,Gilmore, and Fitzy. We will ventuntil theres something to actually cheer about.

Alright, but I have yet to see anyone on this post have a serious discussion about how Edwards affects the Eagles' QB position. Mostly it's just a bunch of posts saying that Edwards sucks.

 

Does Edwards current situation affect the Bills right now?

 

Er, I don't think that's quite possible. It could have been be sarcastic in a way too subtle for me to grasp, but your other responses make plain you're quite serious.

 

Therefore I award you the Unintentional Irony medal of the 2012 Off-season, for needing to "get over yourself" in a post exhorting others to "get over themselves"

 

 

 

Er, that would be the guy who started a thread saying he's tired of hearing about Demetress Bell?

So you'd rather hear about Trent Edwards?

 

This was the birth of Trentative - he was never the same after this hit. Would be illegal today.

 

youtube.com/watch?v=yjpANEVexhY

The irony of that play is that Edwards completed the pass to James Hardy.

 

Okay, I'll add something pertinent to the discussion which relates to the current situation of both the Bills and Trent Edwards:

 

There are people on this message board who believe that Trent Edwards "beat out" Vince Young for a spot on the Eagles roster.

Ahhhh, now that is a legitimate point.

 

Although we do not know if that is the case.

 

For all we know, Mike Kafka beat out Vince Young.

[Orton's Arm]

Source? I remember him saying this about Eric Moulds in 1996 when Wannstedt was coaching the Bears, and coached Moulds in the Senior Bowl. He could have also said the same thing about Losman, but why? Wannstedt was coaching Pitt at the time, why would they go to him to evaluate another team's draft?

 

All I can find for sources on Moulds are TBD posts (highbeam.com cuts off the article right before the source, and the chicagotribune alludes to Wannstedt not liking Moulds, but doesn't quote it), but I remember him saying it after the draft as well.

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/56704-willis-mcgahee-loves-sandwiches/

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/146462-spotlight-on-wanny/

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-22850791.html

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-08-30/sports/9608300196_1_kent-hull-miami-dolphins-receiver

 

Anyway, I think we can be agree that Wannstedt was completely wrong about Moulds, regardless of his football knowledge.

I remember having read it in an article from back when Losman was drafted.

 

Wannstedt was the Dolphins' coach until more than halfway through the 2004 season. Losman was drafted just prior to that season; making it perfectly natural for the coach of a divisional rival to comment on him.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Alright, but I have yet to see anyone on this post have a serious discussion about how Edwards affects the Eagles' QB position.

 

There've been several, actually. Just as in every other thread on this board, they're interspersed with comments that stem away from the original topic and posts saying this or that player sucks. What else is Old Hat here?

 

So you'd rather hear about Trent Edwards?

 

Well, duh....

[thewildrabbit]

He's totally unhinged. I hate when someone wants to be right so badly that they fail to accept logic, and then try changing the argument altogether. Just admit you were wrong, ya know?

Also Vinnie Testaverde works as an answer to his question.

 

There are DOZENS of QBs who have overcome bad coaching early in their careers.

 

 

 

Is Andy Reid a moron? Because he's coaching Trent now.

 

Is Jon Gruden a moron? He couldn't salvage Rob Johnson.

 

Some players just suck, regardless of who is coaching them. Just accept it.

What is it with you and the slamming of other Bills fans, forget to kick your dog or beat your wife today? Take a deep breath and understand were are all here because of a passion for the Buffalo Bills, and not to intimidate or chastise others.

 

 

 

I poised the question, Name me one NFL QB who has had bad coaching in his career and became successful despite the bad coaching! " Meaning his entire career, but I thought you were able to grasp that because of your first response. Ryan Fitzpatrick which was an appropriate response because he has played on some bad teams and had some bad coaching his entire career.

 

Steve Young had some of the very best coaching the NFL has ever seen under Bill Walsh.

 

Vinnie Testaverde, the # number one overall pick in 1987, even tho he played 19 years in the NFL with an overall record of 90-123-1. He never went to a SB. However, he did play on some decent Jets teams that had winning records, and managed to make the pro bowl 2x times.

 

Testaverde played an important part in the University of Miami's history as one of the top collegiate football programs of the 1980s and 1990s. Along with Jim Kelly & Bernie Kosar! Vinnie played for the canes from 83-86 under a HC you might have heard of, Jimmy Johnson. Vinnie won the Heisman trophy in 86. He also had a WR named Michael Irvin on that team.

 

Vinnie had Sam Wyche as his HC in Tampa, Bill Belichick as his HC in Cleveland, and NE, Ted Marchibroda as his HC in Baltimore, Bill Parcells as his HC with the Jets and Cowboys, Charlie Weis as his OC with the Jets. Vinnie has had some of the very best coaching modern football has ever seen

 

 

The entire premise of my point was to say... no successful QB can do it all by themselves. Both JP and Edwards were burdened by morons their entire time in Buffalo. They both never realized their potential simply because of a lack of decent coaching in their careers. JP had some better coaching at first but then was ruined by Jauron and his staff of buffoons. He also had Wyche and Mularkey both telling him what to do, then Mularkey fired his OC along with Wyche. The story on Trent Edwards isn't finished until he is out of the NFL and retired, perhaps Andy Reid can resurrect his career. You know, kinda like what Bill Walsh did for Steve Young.

 

 

Still waiting to see you point out a QB with bad coaching in his career that became successful all on his own.

 

 

 

 

P.S. the very first response made by you against my post came on page 5 after I stated. "To the last bolded line: No they don't, not all by themselves! The successful ones who adapt usually have some good to great coaching behind them early in their careers. Like I stated earlier in this thread, show me a great QB and I'll show you a great coach behind them.

 

So don't try and state I'm changing the argument altogether.

 

 

P.P.S. to Hopeful. arguably Matt Hasselbeck and Rich Gannon. Hasselbeck had Mike Holmgren, Rich Gannon had "chucky"

Edited July 10, 2012 by Fear the Beard

[loserlovers]

[/b]

 

How can we know that when they were coached by morons?

 

Perhaps in your mind my logic fails! but then, I'll bet lots of logic fails there.

 

OK once and for all trent always sucked, he succeeded in winning games early for one reason, he had a quick delivery and threw 5 yarders well. At the time Jp used to wait and wait and try to go deep. Edwards came in and threw to running backs, something JP almost never tried. It was something we all wanted but never got until trent came in. This is when Jackson "emerged" after taking short passes to the house. Even when we won and were 5-1 I said,"how is this possible, this QB doesnt throw past 5 yards" when the opposing defenses and coaches saw this, it was game over for edwards. Hes a total fraud, and never was good regardless of coaching or concussions.

 

Our offense played long ball, and JP scrabled, it was a lack of opposing defenses understanding trents pu$$y a$$ game that allowed him to briefly succeed.

[Mark Vader]

There've been several, actually. Just as in every other thread on this board, they're interspersed with comments that stem away from the original topic and posts saying this or that player sucks. What else is Old Hat here?

 

 

 

Well, duh....

Why?

[Coach Tuesday]

What is it with you and the slamming of other Bills fans, forget to kick your dog or beat your wife today? Take a deep breath and understand were are all here because of a passion for the Buffalo Bills, and not to intimidate or chastise others.

 

 

 

I poised the question, Name me one NFL QB who has had bad coaching in his career and became successful despite the bad coaching! " Meaning his entire career, but I thought you were able to grasp that because of your first response. Ryan Fitzpatrick which was an appropriate response because he has played on some bad teams and had some bad coaching his entire career.

 

Steve Young had some of the very best coaching the NFL has ever seen under Bill Walsh.

 

Vinnie Testaverde, the # number one overall pick in 1987, even tho he played 19 years in the NFL with an overall record of 90-123-1. He never went to a SB. However, he did play on some decent Jets teams that had winning records, and managed to make the pro bowl 2x times.

 

Testaverde played an important part in the University of Miami's history as one of the top collegiate football programs of the 1980s and 1990s. Along with Jim Kelly & Bernie Kosar! Vinnie played for the canes from 83-86 under a HC you might have heard of, Jimmy Johnson. Vinnie won the Heisman trophy in 86. He also had a WR named Michael Irvin on that team.

 

Vinnie had Sam Wyche as his HC in Tampa, Bill Belichick as his HC in Cleveland, and NE, Ted Marchibroda as his HC in Baltimore, Bill Parcells as his HC with the Jets and Cowboys, Charlie Weis as his OC with the Jets. Vinnie has had some of the very best coaching modern football has ever seen

 

 

The entire premise of my point was to say... no successful QB can do it all by themselves. Both JP and Edwards were burdened by morons their entire time in Buffalo. They both never realized their potential simply because of a lack of decent coaching in their careers. JP had some better coaching at first but then was ruined by Jauron and his staff of buffoons. He also had Wyche and Mularkey both telling him what to do, then Mularkey fired his OC along with Wyche. The story on Trent Edwards isn't finished until he is out of the NFL and retired, perhaps Andy Reid can resurrect his career. You know, kinda like what Bill Walsh did for Steve Young.

 

 

Still waiting to see you point out a QB with bad coaching in his career that became successful all on his own.

 

 

 

 

P.S. the very first response made by you against my post came on page 5 after I stated. "To the last bolded line: No they don't, not all by themselves! The successful ones who adapt usually have some good to great coaching behind them early in their careers. Like I stated earlier in this thread, show me a great QB and I'll show you a great coach behind them.

 

So don't try and state I'm changing the argument altogether.

 

 

P.P.S. to Hopeful. arguably Matt Hasselbeck and Rich Gannon. Hasselbeck had Mike Holmgren, Rich Gannon had "chucky"

 

That absolutely was NOT your original argument (and I think you know it). But let's assume it was: so you want me to name a QB who has succeeded despite bad coaching his entire career, and you define success as a winning record. Congrats on setting up a tautology for yourself - I'm not going to wrack my brain trying to give you an example of such an impossible confluence of circumstances (bad coach, winning record, great QB). Although Culpepper during the Mike Tice era in Minnesota comes to mind.

 

But more to the point - what does your "new" argument have to do with Trent Edwards? Do you dispute that Andy Reid is a good coach? (If you do, you're sorely mistaken). If you concede - as you should - that Reid is a good coach, and Reid now coaches Edwards, then Edwards does not fit into the obscure category you've trotted out for yourself, and so what's your point?

Edited July 11, 2012 by Coach Tuesday

[Mr. WEO]

Too bad he didn't really prove it.

 

As I previously replied to him:

In 2006, JP threw the ball 212 times in the first 8 games.

He threw the ball 217 times in the last games.

 

About same amount or slight increase, but definitely not a decrease.

 

Since passing is only one part of the offense, let's look at rushing.

In 2006, the Bills ran the ball 212 times in the first 8 games

They ran the ball 208 times in the last games.

 

About the same amount, or a slight decrease, but definitely not an increase.

 

 

 

See above and try again.

 

 

 

 

I'll try again.

 

Look, simply adding the passing attempts in the first and second halves of the season and concluding "see? No difference" isn't very convincing analysis and it ignores the point being discussed. Before the bye, Losman had 1 game with fewer than 20 attempts, which they won. They lost 5 of the other 6 games. After the bye, he had 4 games with fewer than 20 passes and they won 3 of them. They lost 3 of the 4 games where he threw more than 30 passes. Clearly they were trying something different after the bye--demanding less of JPL than before the bye. Clearly he responded to this with fewer ints, sacks and a higher YPA and QB rating.

[Cynical]

I'll try again.

 

And I'll try again.

 

In order to clarify what I meant when I said they "opened up" the playbook, I stated they had Losman take more chances down field.

Here's the exact quote:

 

"Tip: When I said they opened up the playbook I meant they were allowing him to take more chances down field as opposed to the dink 'n dunk Jauron wanted"

 

I thought that statement was pretty clear and obvious, especially with the inclusion of "dink 'n dunk". But apparently, you are not getting it.

 

down field - long pass attempts

dink 'n dunk - short to medium pass attempts

 

I never said they had JP throw MORE, but they were making him throw LONGER.

 

The Miami game was an example of that.

 

Look, simply adding the passing attempts in the first and second halves of the season and concluding "see? No difference" isn't very convincing analysis and it ignores the point being discussed.

 

It is when passing attempts are used as a basis for your argument as you have been doing. JP complained at the bye, which came after game 7. So, a comparison between the halves is not far fetched.

 

They ran the ball and threw the ball approx the same number of times in the first half and in the second half. So, yes, JP did not throw the ball MORE

in the second half, nor did the team run the ball more. The ratio stayed the same.

 

Before the bye, Losman had 1 game with fewer than 20 attempts, which they won. They lost 5 of the other 6 games. After the bye, he had 4 games with fewer than 20 passes and they won 3 of them. They lost 3 of the 4 games where he threw more than 30 passes. Clearly they were trying something different after the bye

--demanding less of JPL than before the bye. Clearly he responded to this with fewer ints, sacks and a higher YPA and QB rating.

 

Other than passing or running the ball, what else can a team do on offense to run a play? The numbers stayed the same across both halves.

[thewildrabbit]

That absolutely was NOT your original argument (and I think you know it). But let's assume it was: so you want me to name a QB who has succeeded despite bad coaching his entire career, and you define success as a winning record. Congrats on setting up a tautology for yourself - I'm not going to wrack my brain trying to give you an example of such an impossible confluence of circumstances (bad coach, winning record, great QB). Although Culpepper during the Mike Tice era in Minnesota comes to mind.

 

But more to the point - what does your "new" argument have to do with Trent Edwards? Do you dispute that Andy Reid is a good coach? (If you do, you're sorely mistaken). If you concede - as you should - that Reid is a good coach, and Reid now coaches Edwards, then Edwards does not fit into the obscure category you've trotted out for yourself, and so what's your point?

That was EXACTLY my original argument, its from my post you first commented on. Its not my fault that you fail to comprehend what others are talking about. Now that you finally fully understand my argument you now decline to name a QB that has become successful all on their own, that's fine. I didn't think you could name any anyway.

 

If you had thoroughly read my posts in this thread you would have found that I praised Andy Reid in an early one, so I have no idea where you get that I dispute Reid as being a good coach. So i need to concede nothing, except that you make up crap in order to condescend on others.

 

 

You have some serious issues, first is the hostility in some of your other posts towards other Bills fans over nothing!. Then its reading comprehension and deluding yourself into thinking someone said something they didn't.

 

You are still trying to figure out the point I've been trying to get across to you? Not going to waste my time repeating myself over and over because you fail to grasp what others are saying. I suggest you seek some mental health counseling for your hostility issues and perhaps some reading comprehension classes. I honestly feel bad for the people that know you, and have to deal with you in person. I'm done arguing with someone who can't grasp what others are talking about, so feel free to harass a different poster.

 

I get that you hate Trent Edwards, but I'll bet he isn't the only person you hate.

[Coach Tuesday]

That was EXACTLY my original argument, its from my post you first commented on. Its not my fault that you fail to comprehend what others are talking about. Now that you finally fully understand my argument you now decline to name a QB that has become successful all on their own, that's fine. I didn't think you could name any anyway.

 

If you had thoroughly read my posts in this thread you would have found that I praised Andy Reid in an early one, so I have no idea where you get that I dispute Reid as being a good coach. So i need to concede nothing, except that you make up crap in order to condescend on others.

 

 

You have some serious issues, first is the hostility in some of your other posts towards other Bills fans over nothing!. Then its reading comprehension and deluding yourself into thinking someone said something they didn't.

 

You are still trying to figure out the point I've been trying to get across to you? Not going to waste my time repeating myself over and over because you fail to grasp what others are saying. I suggest you seek some mental health counseling for your hostility issues and perhaps some reading comprehension classes. I honestly feel bad for the people that know you, and have to deal with you in person. I'm done arguing with someone who can't grasp what others are talking about, so feel free to harass a different poster.

 

I get that you hate Trent Edwards, but I'll bet he isn't the only person you hate.

 

And congratulations on winning this year's Over The Top Post Award! You may take things a bit too seriously, anyone ever told ya that?

 

(By the way - I still do not understand what your new "point" has to do with Trent Edwards. In fact, you now seem to concede that it doesn't have anything to do with him...)

Edited July 11, 2012 by Coach Tuesday

[Alphadawg7]

Seriously, a 7 page thread on this POS? LMAO, Trent doesn't warrant a 7 word discussion let alone a 7 pager. Literally one of the worst QB's I have seen play for any team in the last decade as a full time starter. The lore of this fool lives on and yet in about 3 weeks to 5 weeks he will be out of the NFL and looking for a job as there is no way the Eagles keep him over the young guys they got, especially with how much theyove Kafka.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Alphadawg7

[You herd it hear last]

Seriously, a 7 page thread on this POS? LMAO, Trent doesn't warrant a 7 word discussion let alone a 7 pager. Literally one of the worst QB's I have seen play for any team in the last decade as a full time starter. The lore of this fool lives on and yet in about 3 weeks to 5 weeks he will be out of the NFL and looking for a job as there is no way the Eagles keep him over the young guys they got, especially with how much theyove Kafka.

btw, there's about 70 words in your rant, about a player you suggest doesn't deserve 7...

[Captain Hindsight]

 

 

 

 

Other than passing or running the ball, what else can a team do on offense to run a play? The numbers stayed the same across both halves.

Punt was a favorite play of Dickie J

[Mr. WEO]

And I'll try again.

 

In order to clarify what I meant when I said they "opened up" the playbook, I stated they had Losman take more chances down field.

Here's the exact quote:

 

"Tip: When I said they opened up the playbook I meant they were allowing him to take more chances down field as opposed to the dink 'n dunk Jauron wanted"

 

I thought that statement was pretty clear and obvious, especially with the inclusion of "dink 'n dunk". But apparently, you are not getting it.

 

down field - long pass attempts

dink 'n dunk - short to medium pass attempts

 

I never said they had JP throw MORE, but they were making him throw LONGER.

 

The Miami game was an example of that.

 

 

 

It is when passing attempts are used as a basis for your argument as you have been doing. JP complained at the bye, which came after game 7. So, a comparison between the halves is not far fetched.

 

They ran the ball and threw the ball approx the same number of times in the first half and in the second half. So, yes, JP did not throw the ball MORE

in the second half, nor did the team run the ball more. The ratio stayed the same.

 

 

 

Other than passing or running the ball, what else can a team do on offense to run a play? The numbers stayed the same across both halves.

 

He complained after the bye? Well in the next two games, they they allowed him a TOTAL of 27 attempts. Was he complaining that his arm was getting tired and to limit the pass plays?

 

Do you really not see the difference in how the pass play calling was after the bye? You don't see how he had 4 times as many games under 20 as before? So he a couple of long bombs in the second half. So what? He always took shots down field--that was his only skill. In the Miami game his longest pass was 37 yards. He had 2 passes that traveled over 30 yards in the air (both on the same drive). The rest were dink and dunks under 10 yards. The Bills ran 37 times that gam e against 19 pass plays.

 

Losman was just awful. He was mentally lazy (I'm giving credit and not calling him just dumb). He wasn't a student of the game and that rested solely on his shoulders, not any coach's. There was never any evidence that he studied film, the playbook--anything.

 

No amount of fantasy can change history.