T master Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 I in some ways hate it for him ! the guy was always up beat here & i along with everyone else in B/lo thought he was our guy for a while ! I kind of wish there would have been a different set of circumstances for him B/c he wasn't a Billy Jo Tolliver type !! Â I wonder if a guy like him could have had a different out come with a David Lee in the mix or at least a HC that had half of a clue cause DJ sure didn't help the guy with the situations he put him in !! Â Well any way i will still root for the guy in hopes that he does do well for some one elses team but am glad that Chan was able to move on to where we are now !!! Â GO BILLS !!!!!!
truth on hold Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 He's finding his way.      "Compounding the difficulty of that transition for Edwards is the fact that he receives so few team reps during practice. With the offense revolving around Vick, Mike Kafka developing as the No. 2 quarterback  I thought Trentative seemed like a nice guy, but it was never clear to me that he really had a passion for football, that he relished making a good throw in the face of pressure. Wouldnt say its a matter of passion. He wants to play as much as anyone. In his desire yo fit in and be viewed as a team player he loses the ability to lead.
FLFan Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Trent and Losman were thrust into starting QB roles on bad to mediocre football teams and had no good coaching. With no OL, they were doomed to fail ere more so than have a chance to succeed. By the time they went on to other teams, their play and reputation were already scarred. Â For example, Jauron decided to run a no-huddle offense, when they had absolutely no personnel to run it. Teams like the Steelers ridiculed our offense and suggested that we huddle a bit to perspire. Â Trent had many good throws under pressure..so many good wins in a comeback spot. The teams were just not very good. I don't buy the excuses. Yes, the Bills we're not very good around him, but Edwards was just plain awful. He had his moments, but for the most part he looked tentative to just plain scared. 3rd string QB in the NFL at best.
You herd it hear last Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 We should never have traded Peters. why is that exactly? the trajectory of the Bills has been upward, while his has declined (to the point of ???)...the FO's botching of his contract re-negotiation was quite possibly the proverbial straw that led to a regime change, bringing us to this point. It's a shame though, he was a unique talent and given the right set of circumstances, he may have been one of the all time greats. imagine him subbing into the k-gun in 1992.
truth on hold Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 I don't buy the excuses. Yes, the Bills we're not very good around him, but Edwards was just plain awful. He had his moments, but for the most part he looked tentative to just plain scared. 3rd string QB in the NFL at best. I agree I just dont see his upside in the NFL at this point. He's kind of a sad story. He's still a young guy, Stanford grad with a little money in his pocket. He should start looking to life outside football, go back to grad school or something.
You herd it hear last Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 I know he said Miami game, but the one he ran out of bounds at the end was the Green Bay game. You are correct, the offense moved when they opened the spread. Â Thing is, I think Trent could have been decent. Bills went full spread ONLY when they released Edwards. I think Gailey wanted Edwards to be removed, and the way to get him out was to handcuff him and run the ball more. When Trent was gone the Bills only began using what we see right now. Chan sacrificed two losses that season. He should have been fired just for that IMO. sniffingpaintinmyhouse...yeah, that's about right.
paintmyhouse Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 So the Bills did not revamp their playbook 100% when they played Fitz? Edwards actually played decent in hurry up and shotgun, but Gailey had him line up under center and hand off.
Cynical Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 > When it comes to the offensive side of the ball, I will take Wanny's word with some skepticism. Â Skepticism why? Wannestedt spends every single working day trying to figure out how to beat opposing quarterbacks. For quarterbacks, Wannestedt is the enemy. If Wannestedt thinks a QB like Losman will be a weak opponent, that's well worth knowing. Especially when it turns out Wannestedt was 100% right! Â For a guy that "spends every single working day trying to figure out how to beat opposing quarterbacks", he was pretty bad at picking them to run his offense when he was a HC. Again, having knowledge and applying that knowledge in a specific way are different things. Wanny might be able to figure out a QB's strength and weaknesses, but as a DC, he's looking to exploit the QB's weaknesses and limit his strengths. The last thing he wants is the QB to reach max potential. Â > After the Bills drafted Edwards, perceived QB guru Bill Walsh called the Bills and told Marv they got a "good one". Â Good point. It might be that anti-endorsements of a player, such as Wannestedt's of Losman, tend to be more reliable than endorsements, such as Walsh's for Trent Edwards. Â Or maybe the failure rate among NFL QB's is so high, it is far easier to say player x won't make it. The person making that prediction will be right more times than he will be wrong. Â > If you had watched any of Losman's game while he was at Tulane you would know he had to scramble just to stay alive. Â Edwards also had to scramble just to stay alive, because his offensive line at Stanford was abysmal. One of the main reasons Edwards wasn't taken in the first or second round was because Edwards hadn't proved enough as a pocket passer to deserve first round status. Neither had Losman; who was taken in the first round anyway due to his physical gifts. Â IIRC, the Bills had Edwards pegged as a solid second rounder (as did others). They were stunned he was still sitting there in the third when it came time for them to pick. As for Losman being a first rounder, that goes on TD. I do not remember Losman being projected by anybody being taken that early. Â > Coming out of college, JP was considered "raw", and would take a few years to develop. Â Ryan Leaf was also considered "raw" coming out of college; whereas Peyton Manning was considered more "polished" and "NFL-ready." However, there were those who felt Leaf had the higher "upside" due to his arm strength and other physical gifts. It was implied that Manning was the better quarterback for a team which wanted immediate gratification; whereas Leaf was the better pick for a team which had taken a longer term view. Â I cannot remember the last time a first round QB was described as "polished" and "NFL-ready" only to turn out to be a bust. Nor can I remember a first round quarterback who, having been described as "raw," went on to have a great career. Losman fit the profile of a standard-issue first round bust. Â > In his second year, he was thrust into the starter's position. That was a disaster waiting to happen. Â Why? Losman had his whole rookie year to learn the playbook in a relatively low pressure situation. He also had the chance to practice, both before his injury occurred and after he'd recovered. Going into his second year, he was appointed the starter, and asked to run the same offense he'd spent his rookie year learning. It soon became obvious that Losman could not succeed in a normal offense; but only in one specifically tailored to his mental limitations. (Such as the offense the Bills employed in 2006.) Â He was "appointed" the starter with no indication he was actually ready to start. Most "raw" players are not ready for the starting lineup within their first 2 years. Â > Are you sure you are not mixing your players up? Â Yes. The Turk/Jauron thing you described is unrelated to the simplification of the Bills' offense in 2006. Â The Bills offense in 2006 was geared to make Losman a pocket passer. He wasn't allowed to audible, and he wasn't allowed to scramble. After he complained during the bye, the coaching staff opened up the play book, and took off the "No scramble" shackles. Coincidentally, the Bills offense improved in the 2nd half of 2006. The opening of the offense included taking more shots down field which just happened to be JP's one real strength.
BobDVA Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/119156-official-trent-edward-haters-sign-up-page/page__view__findpost__p__1966983__hl__%2Btrent+%2Bedwards+%2Bhaters__fromsearch__1
thewildrabbit Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Just wanted to add...Trent Edwards played his college ball at Stanford where he ran the west coast offense. Â Leave it to the Buffalo Bills coaches under Jauron to fit a round peg into a square hole and try and force a new QB to try and learn the Mike Martz passing offense 2nd hand from people that didn't even know how to their own jobs properly as OC's in Schonert and AVP! Is it any wonder why the kid failed so badly in Buffalo? Â Â The Eagles run a type of west coast offense under Andy Reid. If Edwards should ever have a chance to resurrect his NFL career, and rebuild his confidence it will be under Reid in Philly.
Mr. WEO Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Â Â As for Losman being a first rounder, that goes on TD. I do not remember Losman being projected by anybody being taken that early. Really? Â Â Â Â The Bills offense in 2006 was geared to make Losman a pocket passer. He wasn't allowed to audible, and he wasn't allowed to scramble. After he complained during the bye, the coaching staff opened up the play book, and took off the "No scramble" shackles. Coincidentally, the Bills offense improved in the 2nd half of 2006. The opening of the offense included taking more shots down field which just happened to be JP's one real strength. Â Not much of this is true. Audibling requires a QB to recognize the defense and adjust his offense at the line of scrimmage. The coaching staff and all of Western NY knew this was not (to be very kind) JPL's strength--hence his incessant "scrambling". In the second half of the season, no one took the chains off the playbook. The opposite is more likely. He threw for over 200 yards only 3 times in the last 9 games. In the first game after the bye, he passed for 102 yards in a win against GB. The next game he had just 83 yards and again only 8 completions in a 1 point loss against Indy. In fact, they would only win one game out of 4 in the second half of the season where he passed over 30 times, whereas they won 3 of 4 when he passed less than 20 times. If the offense improved after the bye, it's because it was less dependent on Losman.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 6, 2012 Author Posted July 6, 2012 So the Bills did not revamp their playbook 100% when they played Fitz? Edwards actually played decent in hurry up and shotgun, but Gailey had him line up under center and hand off.  Doo-dee-doo-dee-doo-dee-dooo (rummage, rummage). Here we go, 2010 Miami game. Exercise for the intelligent reader: count the number of times the word "shotgun" appears next to a Buffalo play vs. the number of times a non-punt non-kick play says nothing, indicating the snap was under center. Count the number of times it says "hurry up". Construct a fact-based argument to support the contention that "Edwards actually played decent in hurry up and shotgun, but Gailey had him line up under center and hand off"  Extra credit: count the completions/successful plays in each category. Construct a fact-based argument that Edwards played decent in hurry up and shotgun.  The play-by-play indicates the Bills did not, initially, revamp their playbook 100% when they played Fitz to move from under center to shotgun and hurry up (most plays were already shotgun), and there does not appear to be much evidence to support your contention that "Edwards actually played decent in hurry up and shotgun"  PS the GB game is here. There are more handoffs under center in this game, and a very substantial number of pass plays from shotgun. Again, one would have trouble to construct an argument that "Edwards actually played decent in hurry up and shotgun" from this evidence. One could construct the argument that after the shotgun failed so abysmally in MIA Gailey was trying to find something that worked for Edwards by handing off from center more at the start of this game - and failing.  1st Quarter Buffalo Bills at 15:00 5-D.Carpenter kicks 56 yards from MIA 30 to BUF 14. 21-C.Spiller to BUF 25 for 11 yards (50-B.Carpenter, 57-M.Johnson). 1-10-BUF 25 (14:54) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete short middle to 22-F.Jackson. Dropped, receiver at BUF 25. 2-10-BUF 25 (14:51) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete short middle (94-R.Starks). Pass batted at line. 3-10-BUF 25 (14:47) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards sacked at BUF 16 for -9 yards (58-K.Dansby). 4-19-BUF 16 (14:14) 8-B.Moorman punts 35 yards to MIA 49, Center-65-G.Sanborn, downed by BUF-52-A.Moats. Buffalo Bills at 08:54 5-D.Carpenter kicks 76 yards from MIA 30 to BUF -6. 21-C.Spiller, Touchback. 1-10-BUF 20 (8:54) (Shotgun) 21-C.Spiller up the middle to BUF 26 for 6 yards (55-K.Misi, 58-K.Dansby). 2-4-BUF 26 (8:24) 21-C.Spiller right tackle to BUF 28 for 2 yards (37-Y.Bell). 3-2-BUF 28 (7:44) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short middle to 86-D.Nelson to BUF 32 for 4 yards (29-T.Culver) [58-K.Dansby]. Caught in flat at BUF 29. 1-10-BUF 32 (7:02) 21-C.Spiller left guard to BUF 34 for 2 yards (37-Y.Bell, 58-K.Dansby). 2-8-BUF 34 (6:20) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short left to 21-C.Spiller to BUF 30 for -4 yards (30-C.Clemons). Screen pass, caught at BUF 30. 3-12-BUF 30 (5:33) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short middle to 83-L.Evans to BUF 32 for 2 yards (91-C.Wake, 55-K.Misi). Dump pass, caught at BUF 30. 4-10-BUF 32 (4:54) 8-B.Moorman punts 36 yards to MIA 32, Center-65-G.Sanborn. 22-C.Smith to MIA 35 for 3 yards (56-K.Ellison). Buffalo Bills at 02:42 1-10-BUF 15 (2:42) (Shotgun) 21-C.Spiller right end to BUF 17 for 2 yards (50-B.Carpenter, 58-K.Dansby). 2-8-BUF 17 (2:05) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short right to 21-C.Spiller to BUF 23 for 6 yards (58-K.Dansby). Dump pass, caught near sideline at BUF 15. 3-2-BUF 23 (1:32) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete short right to 11-R.Parrish. Overthrown, receiver near sideline at BUF 30. 4-2-BUF 23 (1:28) 8-B.Moorman punts 42 yards to MIA 35, Center-65-G.Sanborn, fair catch by 22-C.Smith. Second Quarter   Buffalo Bills at 11:12 5-D.Carpenter kicks 60 yards from MIA 30 to BUF 10, out of bounds. 1-10-BUF 40 (11:12) (Shotgun) 23-M.Lynch up the middle to BUF 39 for -1 yards (37-Y.Bell, 96-P.Soliai). 2-11-BUF 39 (10:33) 5-T.Edwards pass short right to 13-St. Johnson to BUF 47 for 8 yards (30-C.Clemons). Caught at BUF 46, curling to right. 3-3-BUF 47 (9:54) (Shotgun) 22-F.Jackson right tackle pushed ob at MIA 44 for 9 yards (32-J.Allen). 1-10-MIA 44 (9:24) (Shotgun) 23-M.Lynch left tackle to MIA 29 for 15 yards (21-V.Davis, 30-C.Clemons). 1-10-MIA 29 (8:42) 23-M.Lynch up the middle to MIA 30 for -1 yards (93-Q.Moses, 37-Y.Bell). 2-11-MIA 30 (7:59) (Shotgun) 22-F.Jackson up the middle to MIA 28 for 2 yards (27-B.Sapp, 70-K.Langford). 3-9-MIA 28 (7:20) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards sacked at MIA 33 for -5 yards (91-C.Wake). 4-14-MIA 33 (7:13) 9-R.Lindell 51 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-65-G.Sanborn, Holder-8-B.Moorman Buffalo Bills at 00:16 1-10-BUF 36 (:16) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete short right to 21-C.Spiller (91-C.Wake). Pass tipped at line. Timeout #1 by BUF at 00:12. 2-10-BUF 36 (:12) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short left to 13-St. Johnson to MIA 45 for 19 yards (21-V.Davis). Caught at MIA 49 after QB scrambled to right side. Timeout #2 by BUF at 00:01. 1-10-MIA 45 (:01) 9-R.Lindell 63 yard field goal is No Good, Short, Center-65-G.Sanborn, Holder-8-B.Moorman. Third Quarter Buffalo Bills at 14:08 1-10-MIA 48 (14:08) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete deep right to 83-L.Evans. Overthrown, receiver near sideline at MIA 28. 2-10-MIA 48 (13:59) (Shotgun) 21-C.Spiller up the middle to BUF 48 for -4 yards (98-J.Odrick). 3-14-BUF 48 (13:18) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards scrambles right end pushed ob at MIA 44 for 8 yards (29-T.Culver, 94-R.Starks). 4-6-MIA 44 (12:53) 8-B.Moorman punts 35 yards to MIA 9, Center-65-G.Sanborn, fair catch by 22-C.Smith. Buffalo Bills at 07:06 1-10-BUF 35 (7:06) 5-T.Edwards pass short left to 83-L.Evans to BUF 42 for 7 yards (32-J.Allen) [93-Q.Moses]. Caught in flat at BUF 42. 2-3-BUF 42 (6:26) Wildcat, direct snap to F.Jackson (T.Edwards on sideline). (Shotgun) 22-F.Jackson up the middle to BUF 49 for 7 yards (58-K.Dansby). 1-10-BUF 49 (5:51) Wildcat, direct snap to F.Jackson (T.Edwards on sideline). (Shotgun) 22-F.Jackson right end to MIA 45 for 6 yards (32-J.Allen). Play credited to 50 (spot of foul). PENALTY on BUF-38-C.McIntyre, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at 50. 1-19-BUF 40 (5:26) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete short left to 86-D.Nelson (27-B.Sapp) [55-K.Misi]. Receiver and coverage along left sideline at BUF 45. 2-19-BUF 40 (5:21) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass deep middle to 86-D.Nelson to MIA 29 for 31 yards (30-C.Clemons). Caught at MIA 35. PENALTY on BUF-67-A.Levitre, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at BUF 40 - No Play. 2-29-BUF 30 (4:46) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete short right [37-Y.Bell]. Thrown away Timeout #1 by BUF at 04:39. 3-29-BUF 30 (4:39) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass intended for 86-D.Nelson INTERCEPTED by 30-C.Clemons at BUF 44. 30-C.Clemons pushed ob at BUF 27 for 17 yards (70-E.Wood). Buffalo challenged the incomplete pass ruling, and the play was REVERSED. (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete short middle to 86-D.Nelson. Overthrown, ball hit ground before defender gained possession. 4-29-BUF 30 (4:36) 8-B.Moorman punts 53 yards to MIA 17, Center-65-G.Sanborn. 22-C.Smith to MIA 23 for 6 yards (65-G.Sanborn, 38-C.McIntyre). Buffalo Bills at 00:36 1-10-BUF 29 (:36) 21-C.Spiller left tackle to BUF 28 for -1 yards (30-C.Clemons, 55-K.Misi). End of quarter - 3:16 pm END QUARTER 3 4th Quarter Buffalo Bills continues ...  Buffalo Bills at 09:32 5-D.Carpenter kicks 70 yards from MIA 30 to end zone, Touchback. Kick through end zone. 1-10-BUF 20 (9:32) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short right to 86-D.Nelson to BUF 29 for 9 yards (27-B.Sapp, 37-Y.Bell). Caught at BUF 28. 2-1-BUF 29 (9:04) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short left to 83-L.Evans to BUF 45 for 16 yards (32-J.Allen). Caught in flat at BUF 42. 1-10-BUF 45 (8:38) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short right to 13-St. Johnson to MIA 42 for 13 yards (37-Y.Bell). Caught at MIA 49. 1-10-MIA 42 (8:13) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short middle to 11-R.Parrish to MIA 38 for 4 yards (37-Y.Bell). Caught at MIA 38. Timeout #1 by MIA at 07:54. 2-6-MIA 38 (7:54) (Shotgun) PENALTY on BUF-74-C.Green, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at MIA 38 - No Play. 2-11-MIA 43 (7:54) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards scrambles right end to MIA 39 for 4 yards (58-K.Dansby). 3-7-MIA 39 (7:16) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short right to 83-L.Evans to MIA 30 for 9 yards (32-J.Allen). Caught in flat at MIA 30. 1-10-MIA 30 (6:51) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short right to 21-C.Spiller to MIA 21 for 9 yards (37-Y.Bell). Curl pattern, caught at MIA 30. 2-1-MIA 21 (6:21) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 21-C.Spiller right tackle to MIA 22 for -1 yards (91-C.Wake, 70-K.Langford). 3-2-MIA 22 (5:50) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards sacked at MIA 31 for -9 yards (55-K.Misi). 4-11-MIA 31 (5:18) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass deep right to 11-R.Parrish for 31 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Caught behind coverage at MIA 4. 9-R.Lindell extra point is GOOD, Center-65-G.Sanborn, Holder-8-B.Moorman. Buffalo Bills at 01:48 1-10-BUF 1 (1:48) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete short middle to 13-St. Johnson (21-V.Davis). Receiver and breakup at BUF 5, crossing from left. 2-10-BUF 1 (1:43) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete short right to 83-L.Evans (32-J.Allen). Receiver underthrown, nearly intercepted at BUF 4. 3-10-BUF 1 (1:39) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete short left to 13-St. Johnson. Thrown wide of receiver at BUF 8. 4-10-BUF 1 (1:33) 8-B.Moorman Aborted. 65-G.Sanborn FUMBLES at BUF 0, ball out of bounds in End Zone, SAFETY. Intentionally snapped out of end zone. Buffalo Bills at 00:29 1-10-BUF 20 (:29) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete short right to 22-F.Jackson. Underthrown, receiver at BUF 26. 2-10-BUF 20 (:22) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete short right to 86-D.Nelson (78-T.McDaniel). Pass batted at line. 3-10-BUF 20 (:17) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete short right (91-C.Wake). Thrown away under pressure. 4-10-BUF 20 (:17) (Shotgun) PENALTY on BUF-5-T.Edwards, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at BUF 20 - No Play. 4-15-BUF 15 (:08) 5-T.Edwards pass short right to 86-D.Nelson to BUF 24 for 9 yards (27-B.Sapp). Caught in flat at BUF 24.    http://forums.twobil...__fromsearch__1  Nice find. It occurs to me that I do control the vertical here since I started this thread. We are all bored and looking to pass the time until training camp, and I did just post - after a reasonable time for responses, I may put it out of its misery. I really never expected to explore the depth of persistent TE hate on this board, just to update the status of his attempt to continue his career with the Iggles.  I thought TE was a decent human being and I wish him success (I just don't wish him back in a Buffalo uniform)  Just wanted to add...Trent Edwards played his college ball at Stanford where he ran the west coast offense.  Leave it to the Buffalo Bills coaches under Jauron to fit a round peg into a square hole and try and force a new QB to try and learn the Mike Martz passing offense 2nd hand from people that didn't even know how to their own jobs properly as OC's in Schonert and AVP! Is it any wonder why the kid failed so badly in Buffalo?   The Eagles run a type of west coast offense under Andy Reid. If Edwards should ever have a chance to resurrect his NFL career, and rebuild his confidence it will be under Reid in Philly.  First of all, the original Martz offense is brutal, BRUTAL, on the QB. It takes time to develop and basically requires the QB to stand in the pocket and take an ungodly amount of sacks and hits. Look at Cutler in 2010. Martz basically burnt out two very good QB in St Louis, Warner and Bulger, by subjecting them to years of running-back-level hits and abuse.  So I hate the Martz-type offense. Just putting that up front.  I could never recognize anything Buffalo ran as resembling that, so if that's what they were trying for, you have a very valid point there about Schonert and AVP.  All of that said, essentially many/most college QB change offensive schemes when they come to the pros. The successful ones adapt. It's part of being smart enough to be an NFL QB. 2-11-BUF 28 (15:00) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short right to 21-C.Spiller to BUF 25 for -3 yards (29-T.Culver). Flare pass, bobbled and caught at BUF 25. 3-14-BUF 25 (14:18) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete short right to 83-L.Evans [58-K.Dansby]. Thrown away under pressure, receiver along sideline at BUF 29. 4-14-BUF 25 (14:10) 8-B.Moorman punts 48 yards to MIA 27, Center-65-G.Sanborn, downed by BUF-52-A.Moats.
eball Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Nice job, Hopeful. I doubt that will stop paintmyhouse from spewing more nonsense, but at least you've revealed that the Emperor in fact has no clothes.
Cynical Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Really? Â Yes, really. IIRC, he was ranked like the 5th best QB in that draft class. Not exactly screaming first round material there. Â Â Not much of this is true. Audibling requires a QB to recognize the defense and adjust his offense at the line of scrimmage. The coaching staff and all of Western NY knew this was not (to be very kind) JPL's strength--hence his incessant "scrambling". In the second half of the season, no one took the chains off the playbook. The opposite is more likely. He threw for over 200 yards only 3 times in the last 9 games. Â Yet, his Yd/att went from 6.75 in the first half of the season to 7.5 in the second half. His Yds per game went from 177 to 205. He threw 7 TD in the first half to throwing 12 in the second. Â Yeah, you are right. They were "reigning" him in. Â In the first game after the bye, he passed for 102 yards in a win against GB. The next game he had just 83 yards and again only 8 completions in a 1 point loss against Indy. In fact, they would only win one game out of 4 in the second half of the season where he passed over 30 times, whereas they won 3 of 4 when he passed less than 20 times. If the offense improved after the bye, it's because it was less dependent on Losman. Â Miami, Dec. 2006 - Â JP Losman: 13-19-200 yds, 3 TD - What's the Yd/Att on that? 10+? Â Tip: When I said they opened up the playbook I meant they were allowing him to take more chances down field as opposed to the dink 'n dunk Jauron wanted. Â In 2006, the playbook was originally set up in attempt to make JP learn to read a defense and make him into a pocket passer. Prior to the 2006 season, Jauron even made the comment of every scrambling QB eventually needs to learn how to read a defense and throw from the pocket if they want to continue playing in the NFL. Â Furthermore, I am not debating whether or not JP ever learned how to read a D or that he was some kind of mental genius. I am disputing the comment the 2006 playbook was setup ("limited") because he was stupid.
Mr. WEO Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Yes, really. IIRC, he was ranked like the 5th best QB in that draft class. Not exactly screaming first round material there. Â Â Link? many here were citing the BLESTO report after his junior year ranking at or near the top of the QB class. Â Â Yet, his Yd/att went from 6.75 in the first half of the season to 7.5 in the second half. His Yds per game went from 177 to 205. He threw 7 TD in the first half to throwing 12 in the second. Â Yeah, you are right. They were "reigning" him in. Â Â Â Miami, Dec. 2006 - Â JP Losman: 13-19-200 yds, 3 TD - What's the Yd/Att on that? 10+? Â Tip: When I said they opened up the playbook I meant they were allowing him to take more chances down field as opposed to the dink 'n dunk Jauron wanted. Â In 2006, the playbook was originally set up in attempt to make JP learn to read a defense and make him into a pocket passer. Prior to the 2006 season, Jauron even made the comment of every scrambling QB eventually needs to learn how to read a defense and throw from the pocket if they want to continue playing in the NFL. Â Furthermore, I am not debating whether or not JP ever learned how to read a D or that he was some kind of mental genius. I am disputing the comment the 2006 playbook was setup ("limited") because he was stupid. Â Maybe I wasn't explaining my point well. After the bye, he became more effective when they limited his attempts, which to me, means they were simplifying the game for him. Before the bye, they won a single game where they asked him to throw more than 25 times. After the bye they had more success when they didn't let him throw more than 30 times. Your Miami example is appropriate. It was clear to just about everyone that when he dropped back to pass, unless Lee Evans was streaking down the sideline, bad things often happened. This is because he struggled to identify his secondary receiver (no ability at all to go through a progression)--which led him to simply take off. And for a great athlete--he was caught and sacked more often than not. Â So, yeah, he got better when they didn't let him throw as much. Thus they simplified his task.
Rico Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Maybe I shouldn't be, but I'm surprised there's still so much pro-Losman sentiment on this site. The Bills' other first round busts--such as McCargo, Maybin, etc.--generally don't receive that kind of positive attention or favorable "what if?" scenarios. Â Immediately after the 2006 draft, Dave Wannestedt said he wouldn't have taken Losman with the last pick of the seventh round. At the time, many on this site criticized him for that remark. Wannestedt has more knowledge of football in his pinky than most people here have, period. This is why he realized that Losman had not proven himself a good pocket passer in college, and was very unlikely to become one in the NFL. Â There are some who wave the word "coaching" around as though the word is a magic wand which can make a player's mental shortcomings disappear. That's like waving the phrase "strength training" around like a magic wand while explaining why the 5'6", 120 pound offensive lineman you just drafted is destined to become a Pro Bowl player. Â I've read that after the snap, Tom Brady processes information a full second faster than Drew Bledsoe had. There's a very sharp limit to the amount coaches can do to affect that. Â Neither Tom Brady nor Joe Montana had exceptional physical gifts. Montana lasted until the third round due in large part to his lack of arm strength. Brady's arm was nothing special either. And I've read that he lost a foot race to Drew Bledsoe! Â What made Brady and Montana special was their ability to throw the ball accurately, and their ability to process information quickly. Losman was the opposite of that. He had great physical gifts, but was not accurate, and not good at anything relating to information processing or the other mental aspects of the game. The Bills had to run a very simplified offense in 2006 to accommodate his mental limitations. Same chumps, different year.
Buffalos#1Fan Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 You're mixing up your years. Gailey's first season (2010) Trent won the job in camp, had a pretty decent preseason, and then stunk it up in the first two games of the season and was cut. Â best day of my life
thewildrabbit Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Â First of all, the original Martz offense is brutal, BRUTAL, on the QB. It takes time to develop and basically requires the QB to stand in the pocket and take an ungodly amount of sacks and hits. Look at Cutler in 2010. Martz basically burnt out two very good QB in St Louis, Warner and Bulger, by subjecting them to years of running-back-level hits and abuse. Â So I hate the Martz-type offense. Just putting that up front. Â I could never recognize anything Buffalo ran as resembling that, so if that's what they were trying for, you have a very valid point there about Schonert and AVP. Â All of that said, essentially many/most college QB change offensive schemes when they come to the pros. The successful ones adapt. It's part of being smart enough to be an NFL QB. My point exactly as to why both Losman and Edwards failed to develop. The Bills lame OC's tried to force both QB's to throw mid to deep passes when neither usually had the time in the pocket required to throw those deep passes. Â Â Â To the last bolded line: No they don't, not all by themselves! The successful ones who adapt usually have some good to great coaching behind them early in their careers. Like I stated earlier in this thread, show me a great QB and I'll show you a great coach behind them.
Cynical Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Link? many here were citing the BLESTO report after his junior year ranking at or near the top of the QB class.  Too bad he declared after his senior year.  Best link I can do is from Scout.com. I was off by one. They got him ranked as 4th best QB. My link   So, yeah, he got better when they didn't let him throw as much. Thus they simplified his task.  212 Att in the first 8 games 217 Att in the second 8 games  If you want to make the argument he threw about the same number of times, fine. But it is clear he did not throw "less".
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