FleaMoulds80 Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 I would guess to say they would be pretty close. Gronk has shown time and time again he will go up and get it. His combination of speed, size, strength and hands makes him pretty difficult to stop. Perfect example would be Shannon Sharpe's stats with Dilfer chucking the ball to him. Try watching some of the catches Gronk makes or what he does after the catch. Pretty amazing player. And to think we didn't draft Tom Brady either...what were we thinking. Give me a break.
stony Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 If I were Troup (or any of these guys) I wouldn't be sleeping well at night. Solid veterans Dwan and Spencer might be done in by their salaries but even if that comes to be, Troup will be competing with his classmate Carrington and former Bears 3rd rounder Jarron Gilbert. I think that's pretty stiff competition. Whomever are the last men standing, it feels good to view the depth chart compared to years past when we'd be depending on these guys to be our starters. I think Dwan gets cut early in an effort to let him catch onto a real 3-4 team. I really hope Spencer makes the team. He's been out of position the past two seasons. He'll be fine in a 4-3 reserve role. The second and maybe third spot is a crap shoot. Troupe if healthy? Carrington at DT? Heard?
Luxy312 Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 I'm not sure who this thread is even about. Obviously have a couple of Patriot nut-huggers posting here none the less. In terms of Troup, the ongoing question is his health. Does anyone think that the Dareus pick would have happened, had Troup lived up to the potential that was expected? Of course not. For those same nut huggers, please tell me how the following draft picks have panned out as first rounders for the Cheatriots: Lawrence Maroney, Brandon Meriweather, Nate Solder, Devon McCourty. Add to that your two latest first round TE picks Daniel Graham, and Ben Watson. It's easy to pick out one star in Gronkowski and ignore that plethora of average players.
BuffaloBill Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 What is missing in this thread is all of the angst expressed again and again on how the Bills did not draft for either of the lines. Troup may go bust due to injuries. Hopefully he stays healthy and thrives in this new scheme. Also lost is the fact that Gailey's scheme does not emphasize the tight end. He is more apt to run three and four wide receiver sets. Not saying that I would not want Gronk on the team. Just pointing out that it is pointless to look back.
Luxy312 Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 What is missing in this thread is all of the angst expressed again and again on how the Bills did not draft for either of the lines. Troup may go bust due to injuries. Hopefully he stays healthy and thrives in this new scheme. Also lost is the fact that Gailey's scheme does not emphasize the tight end. He is more apt to run three and four wide receiver sets. Not saying that I would not want Gronk on the team. Just pointing out that it is pointless to look back. This is absolutely on point. Tell me that in the few games where the Bills actually used a TE that Scott Chandler didn't look all world. The reality is they don't run the scheme that emphasizes the position. They haven't since the 1990's Jim Kelly teams. Comparing what Rob Gronkowski has done for the Patriots to the Bills is apples & oranges.
You herd it hear last Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 According to Troup's twitter, he literally cannot sleep at night. Hasn't slept well since he was 13. that's cuz he's sleeping through the games...i kid really...he seems to have john mccantgo syndrome.
Lurker Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 one that was at one point projected a top 10 pick At what point was that?? Gronk himself said he was "hoping first round, but was expecting second round."
Turbosrrgood Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) Good points and I'm certainly not defending the Troup pick although like Lightning, I still hope that it works out for he and Carrington. But I will say it's tiresome hearing the constant refrain that we could have drafted Gronk instead of Troup and that's what evoked my comment. As for the truth of the matter, as per usual, we'll never know the truth about what teams had what grades on which players. BTW, it's amazing how Nix's first draft wasn't so great but his last two appear to be excellent. Valid reason or not, the optimists here (I include myself of course) like to point out that Modrak was still VP of College Scouting in Nix's first draft… was possibly marginalized by the time of the second draft (he was fired shortly thereafter)… and completely out of the picture by the time of Nix's third draft. Many pessimists here will not accept the decreasing level of Modrak's involvement as a valid reason for the increasing quality of Nix's draft. Some pessimists point out that if Nix really had his act together, he would have fired Modrak immediately upon becoming General Manager. However, that overlooks the point that it was Modrak who hired Nix back into the organization as Head National Scout. Surely Nix would have preferred that Modrak be an effective personnel man… certainly Nix would have preferred not having to fire the man who hired him. Certainly Nix wanted to give Modrak every opportunity to succeed. The GM and coaching staff had only a few months to get to know the Bills, their players, their needs, and their scouting department. Modrak was still there for their first draft and very much a part of that process. While this is a little speculation on my part, I believe the subsequent years Nix was able to mold the scouting department to his liking, and properly prepare for the draft. As we know, most of Modrak's drafts could be described as failures, Nix's drafts that were HIS OWN, appear to be pretty darn solid at this early stage. If I remember correctly, the Bills were also trying to save face for Modrak as to not hurt his career post Bills. He was after all a Ralph favorite. So I agree with your statements, although I am generally considered a pessimist, not an optimist. So those references could be backwards in that regard. Edited July 3, 2012 by Turbosrrgood
Turbosrrgood Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) I think Dwan gets cut early in an effort to let him catch onto a real 3-4 team. I really hope Spencer makes the team. He's been out of position the past two seasons. He'll be fine in a 4-3 reserve role. The second and maybe third spot is a crap shoot. Troupe if healthy? Carrington at DT? Heard? Well put. Dwan doesn't belong on this team, and would be forced to play out of position. He was far from impressive during his time with the Bills anyway IMO. Oh yeah, he also has by far the highest 2012 salary of all interior D-linesman (Yes, more than the freshly signed Kyle Williams, More than Dareus, more than Spencer Johnson). I also am a Spencer Johnson fan, I think this guy is underrated, and would be a key reserve for the Bills if they keep him. He is a solid 4-3 guy that should never have been forced into the roles he was the past 2 years. Troup if healthy? Man that's a big IF. Even if he is healthy, there is nothing to say he is a good player anyway. He has shown nothing yet, injury or not. Carrington could be interesting as an inside pass rushing specialist, I think Heard is promising as well. He's got good size, and good mobility for that size. I think he is a capable backup. If we lose KW or Dareus to injury though, certainly our D-line all of the sudden doesn't seem quite so formidable... Edited July 3, 2012 by Turbosrrgood
John from Riverside Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) I am not sure how much I buy into that. Find it somewhat hard to believe that a guy that is well on his way to becoming one of the best TE's (if not the best) of all time...a guy who was not only able to start his rookie year but also contribute at a high level. The Bills drafted a player in the first round a few years back coming off one of the most horrific injuries ever seen only to sit him for an entire year with the hope that he could regain his form and someday play in the NFL again. Maybe Gronk (also from Buffalo) was not in the Bills plans but tough to argue or defend the pick of Troup there. ***AND THE REASON why I am not buying into injury concerns to where teams removed him off of their board all together is that he still left college early after sitting out the 2009 season. I am guessing he understood that he was no longer being looked at in the top 10 or maybe even 1st round, but he never would have left college if he was not getting a read on teams showing (at that time) 1st day interest. He still went to the combine, still worked out at his pro-day and also had a team trade up in the draft to draft him. Bad job 2 ways...drafting an unproven player to eary to try and fill a need in Troup and not doing your homework on a player such as Gronk that would have been a gift in the 2nd round for another position of need. This is not complicated..... The bills were going to a 3-4......and Troup had the look of a DT that could play hybrid He got hurt almost immediately He has not been able to come back from it It does NOT make it a bad pick.....a bad pick would have been taking a player that is not a need in the 2nd round....which clearly was the case. This one was a case of bad luck.....as I thought Troupe showed progress before his injuries started to set him back. We will probably never know. This is why Nix doesn't like to trade away his picks and aquires as many as he can......because something like this can happen. Not every pick is going to be a slam dunk by a team....and Buffalo overall in the past 10 years has had more then its share of misses...but it also cannot be argued that Nix has had his share of good picks to....and now seems to understand that biulding a winning football team is a combonation of good drafting AND being willing to pay for the premium talent. Edited July 3, 2012 by John from Hemet
ganesh Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 I think Dwan gets cut early in an effort to let him catch onto a real 3-4 team. I really hope Spencer makes the team. He's been out of position the past two seasons. He'll be fine in a 4-3 reserve role. The second and maybe third spot is a crap shoot. Troupe if healthy? Carrington at DT? Heard? We should try to trade Edwards for a 6th or 7th rounder from the Steelers or Ravens as both are thin at the DT position and do play the 3-4.
Booger Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 At what point was that?? Gronk himself said he was "hoping first round, but was expecting second round." Pre-Injury he was a projected top ten pick. It was post injury that he was hoping first round but expecting the 2nd. Post definitely got away from the point but I believe that was due to the lack of football knowledge that was exposed on the board. People post and respond with zero knowledge of a situation OR seem to make up their own scenarios without ever reading up on things.
eball Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 If we lose KW or Dareus to injury though, certainly our D-line all of the sudden doesn't seem quite so formidable... No team has All-Pros backing up All-Pros. So, I guess my point is you can't worry about that; all you can do is try to build quality depth, and I think Nix has done a real nice job of doing that. Among Troup, Carrington, Heard, Johnson, and Edwards, they'll find two or three guys capable of providing adequate relief. My money is on Carrington, Heard, and Edwards -- the latter mostly because of comments I've read from Wannstedt about how much of an "athlete" Dwan is. Troup is really facing an uphill battle; he'll have to be lights out (sorry Shawne) in camp and the preseason, while staying healthy.
Mr. WEO Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) BTW, it's amazing how Nix's first draft wasn't so great but his last two appear to be excellent. Valid reason or not, the optimists here (I include myself of course) like to point out that Modrak was still VP of College Scouting in Nix's first draft… was possibly marginalized by the time of the second draft (he was fired shortly thereafter)… and completely out of the picture by the time of Nix's third draft. Many pessimists here will not accept the decreasing level of Modrak's involvement as a valid reason for the increasing quality of Nix's draft. Some pessimists point out that if Nix really had his act together, he would have fired Modrak immediately upon becoming General Manager. However, that overlooks the point that it was Modrak who hired Nix back into the organization as Head National Scout. I don't think pessimism is what leads one to the conclusion that blaming Modrak for Buddy's first draft is a bit silly. Buddy is a career scout. He was the Bills Head of National Scouting the year before the Troup draft. Troup was picked as an NT ( he wasn't even the top rated NT) because Buddy and Chan wanted to swith to the 3-4. The same posters who swear that Buddy was completely against the Maybin pick now claim that he was completely swayed by the Great Modrak to pick Troup (who is now, if healthy, a DT down on the depth chart). He had an off draft--why make ridiculous mea culpas for the guy? Edited July 3, 2012 by Mr. WEO
Booger Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 I don't think pessimism is what leads one to the conclusion that blaming Modrak for Buddy's first draft is a bit silly. Buddy is a career scout. He was the Bills Head of National Scouting the year before the Troup draft. Troup was picked as an NT ( he wasn't even the top rated NT) because Buddy and Chan wanted to swith to the 3-4. The same posters who swear that Buddy was completely against the Maybin pick now claim that he was completely swayed by the Great Modrak to pick Troup (who is now, if healthy, a DT down on the depth chart). He had an off draft--why make ridiculous mea culpas for the guy? 100% agree. Be honest and stop defending each and every move that is ever made. If the Bills had a history of winning then fine. It may have "filled a need" but it was not a good pick. It was a bad pick (yes John, a bad pick) because it was a REACH to fill a need. Very possible that TROUP was going to be there in the 3rd....so, would you of rather had Gronk and Troup, Gronk and Carrington or Troup and Carrington?
Fan in San Diego Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Good points and I'm certainly not defending the Troup pick although like Lightning, I still hope that it works out for he and Carrington. But I will say it's tiresome hearing the constant refrain that we could have drafted Gronk instead of Troup and that's what evoked my comment. As for the truth of the matter, as per usual, we'll never know the truth about what teams had what grades on which players. BTW, it's amazing how Nix's first draft wasn't so great but his last two appear to be excellent. Valid reason or not, the optimists here (I include myself of course) like to point out that Modrak was still VP of College Scouting in Nix's first draft… was possibly marginalized by the time of the second draft (he was fired shortly thereafter)… and completely out of the picture by the time of Nix's third draft. Many pessimists here will not accept the decreasing level of Modrak's involvement as a valid reason for the increasing quality of Nix's draft. Some pessimists point out that if Nix really had his act together, he would have fired Modrak immediately upon becoming General Manager. However, that overlooks the point that it was Modrak who hired Nix back into the organization as Head National Scout. Surely Nix would have preferred that Modrak be an effective personnel man… certainly Nix would have preferred not having to fire the man who hired him. Certainly Nix wanted to give Modrak every opportunity to succeed. Good points, it would seem that Modrak indeed was the fly in our ointment for the last what 14 years?
Lurker Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Pre-Injury he was a projected top ten pick. It was post injury that he was hoping first round but expecting the 2nd. Again, by who? A 47 catch sophomore season doesn't make anyone a top ten pick, except in Madden.
Booger Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Again, by who? A 47 catch sophomore season doesn't make anyone a top ten pick, except in Madden. Yup, go back to your Madden game. 47 receptions and he missed 3 games. Also was 3rd team All American and added to the Lombardi Award watch list going into his Junior year.... Did you not read up on the best talent to come out of WNY in decades? Oh wait, you must be on board with mrags in that Gronk is not that good. The guy was taken #42 after having "career threatening" surgery...where do you think he would have fell without ever having to have that surgery? Sure, this post is not about Gronk and nor should it be. So stop responding with nonsense and taking offense to a players ability just because he does not play on the Bills.
CSBill Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 So, I was just wondering after reading this thread: Does anybody know how Torell Troup is doing?
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted July 3, 2012 Author Posted July 3, 2012 look, edwards is going nowhere. the guy is really solid and has monster moments, ( redskins game). i know they had a couple lineman hurt, but cmon, the guy can play and is good. you want at least one sure thing as a backup at dt... carrington and heard fill out at dt. i say we keep 10 dlineman. mario merriman anderson kelsay johnson dareus williams edwards carrington heard....
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