I Just Heard A Confirmation Of What I've Been Thinking

[tomato can]

I don't need to, I already know. Regardless, is that your final answer?

 

I see you've avoided answering other questions too. There are certain things that are just very basic in the field and if you misstate them it's obvious you don't know what you are talking about.

 

 

Is that your final answer? I have answered plenty of questions in this topic including several by you. But I am not going to play a childs game with you.

 

I have not misstated anything. I have spoken from my own expierences. Who knows maybe some landlord hosed in a lease that had a personal guarantee and you are still stewing about it today and its got you thinking you are all the sudden the know all of leasing.....

Edited July 4, 2012 by tomato can

[tomato can]

So what? Are you like the woman...who wants me...to want to do dishes? Why would I...want...to do dishes? Ugh, I haven't even read all of this, and I can already smell: "womanly". I hope this isn't going to be one emotional argument/idiotic rationalization after the next. We'll see....

 

Emotional Argument #1: "What about the jobs!" Dude, seriously? Toys R Us and Walmart were always going to destroy your friends'(yeah no emotion here at all) company. Those jobs were going away no matter what. What's better, for those people to lose those jobs, now, and get started somewhere else? Or stay, and waste time that they won't get credit for at the next job?

 

And, btw, it must have sucked for you to lose a customer at your job....but you are being objective here, right?

 

I am giving you the opinion of experts. You are choosing to argue with them.

 

The article, as all Politifact articles are, was written to examine the Obama campaign's claims and objectively determine their veracity. Yes, there are opinions that would say the opposite: they work for the Obama campaign.

 

Go ahead and look at the Washington Post(yeah, a real conservative bastion )'s fact checker here. 4 pinnochios and no opinions, only facts. Yeah, I had this article 3 posts ago as well. Let's see what else you have to say....

 

Emotional argument #2:

You are talking about cannibalizing....but posting about KB making a 'profit', by closing stores and writing off assets? Really? KB cannibalized it's own assets so that it could appear more profitable to its buyers....and you don't see anything wrong with that? I don't see how this = "performance". The business model was sooo great...that it put **** inventory on your books that is so bad, that it needs to be written off, not sold on a secondary market? How many Walmarts can be classified as "underperforming"? In fat how many Wal Marts have been closed....that weren't replaced by bigger, "shock and awe" Walmarts?

 

"Nothing could stop KB Toys from challenging"...Walmart, Target, Toys R Us? Yeah, I suppose nothing can stop a drunken idiot from challenging a bouncer...but that challenge does what exactly?

 

Dude, all you have to know is that sentence, right there, to know that this author is nowhere near objective. Ridiculous.

 

Yeah, you should do better internet research. Lendio is who this is. It has this nice little quote here, right on their website "President Obama, don't worry, we're here to help you out!" Which is link to a Huffington Post article?

 

Real objective. They list their people...by first name...with no experience history?

 

Dude, I talk to people like this as part of my job. They aren't toy industry analysts. Not even close. What they are: a loosely organized group of people that analyze companies like mine...and try to sell us financing....for an exploitative fee. They float around looking for whatever is "hot", they may have 1 guy who worked in toys for a few years...maybe. Oh sure, they get you the loan for free...but don't tell you that their fee is built into the rate, and that you have to put up crazy equity in your firm as collateral. They are a loan re-seller for banks, looking to take over your company at the slightest hint of trouble.

 

Hence, from the website "FundingUniverse.com has had a small amount of unhappy customers and some unwanted complaints." and, "If the business owner isn't a good fit for any financing, or doesn't like their options, then Lendio helps them, over time, fix what's wrong. Lendio provides a valuable and needed service."

 

By that logic, so does Bain Capital.

 

Based on your version of "morality", these people are <= Bain, because at least Bain tells you who they really are. But most importantly, these guys will NEVER publicly bag on any company. That is counter productive for them. Everything is roses, because their sales pitch is based on "most businesses can get funded, if only you trust in us, and we say everything is positive, and we can do better...now sign here please." So, you cannot use these guys for objective analysis of KB. Sorry.

 

But, remember, I have no problem with Lendio. This is the job they do. And, some companies are desperate enough to work with people like this. That's on them.

 

Politifact is, by definition, fact. The whole point of it, or the WashPo fact checker, is to measure the truth in what politicians say. Go ahead and google all of these type of websites, and see for yourself. This info comes from the Obama campaign video, and it is now proven BS. I am done doing proper internet research for you. You are a grown up.

 

So what if Bain got sued? They still got what they wanted. They still did the job they were hired to do, and somebody signed their contract.

 

And most importantly? Romney was in Salt Lake City fixing the Olympics when all of your friends lost their jobs. I have been saying "wise up" since my JV coach said it. So spare me the O'Reilly stuff.

 

 

Speaking of women you sure got your panties in a bunch just kidding.

 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this topic. One valid point that you made was there was a good chance that KB was headed for this. Bain just made sure they got them there faster. I mean heck we are all going to die some day, I don't think we are looking for someone to speed that up.....

 

One last point that I would like to state again. Bain was sued by the creditors. They were sued because the acted totally unethical, they looted this company of its money, and screwed the creditors. Those creditors had a good solid case and were ready to prove it in court. Bain not wanting to be expossed for this quickly settled and made sure that the terms were not disclosed. You can say so what. I say those are the facts and they are undisputed!

 

And as Billy O would say................I will give you the last word

[3rdnlng]

Is that your final answer? I have answered plenty of questions in this topic including several by you. But I am not going to play a childs game with you.

 

I have not misstated anything. I have spoken from my own expierences. Who knows maybe some landlord hosed in a lease that had a personal guarantee and you are still stewing about it today and its got you thinking you are all the sudden the know all of leasing.....

 

 

Your statements go against all standard practices. Because of that, I find it hard to take you seriously. Does it really matter though? Romney wasn't with Bain when they bought it, owned it or sold it.

[tomato can]

Your statements go against all standard practices. Because of that, I find it hard to take you seriously. Does it really matter though? Romney wasn't with Bain when they bought it, owned it or sold it.

 

 

I have not lied to you. I will try and help you to better understand what I am saying. Yes there are standard practices. The mall had to go against the grain and do things to keep certain retailers there and to pay the bills. The mall in the 90's was a thriving mall with almost 1 million square feet of property. It was anchored by Carson Pirie Scott, Montgomery Wards, Circuit City, & Walgreens, yes Walgreens was there for a long long time. Hard to believe but we had them. Wards went bankrupt and closed I believe in 1998? It was a big loss. They had 4 levels and over 400,000 square foot. In 2004 Circuit City was in such bad shape they closed our location. Walgreens was wanting out because there stores were all free standing. We had no luck getting a retailer to take the Wards location. It sat empty and the losing Circuit City hurt. Some very good National Retailers like New York & Company, Limited, Limited Express, & Wilson's Leather to name a few did not resign leases and left. Sam Goody and Musicland were in financial trouble with the downloading of music online. Everyone that remained there was feeling the pinch of less traffic in the mall. Some of those locations were replaced with stores like Man Alive, Jimmy Jazz, J Bees, DTLR. The mall was becoming more of an Urban mall by adding those hip hop stores. Walgreens closed their location and began to try and sub-lease it. The mom & pop stores that were there for years were hanging tough. The nationals that remained knew they were in a position to bargain. Men's Footlocker, Ladies Footlocker, Finish Line, Champs Sports, Ashley Stewart, Lane Bryant, & Finish Line to name a few all had big stores, some as big as 15,000 to 20,000 square feet. Reduced levels of traffic = reduced levels in sales. Their real estate people knew this and wanted a much better deal to remain. I wont say which one but one of them were able to even cut a deal for just percentage rent.

 

I know there are standard practices in this business. Even in good times when the malls could stick to those practices. Kb Toys did not pay the same amount per square foot as a Men's Footlocker, Finish Line, Lane Bryant, Victoria Secret, Bath & Body Works. They were never capable of generating the amount of sales those retailers could. Those national retailers that could generate big sales numbers paid the $40 per square foot rent. The moms and pops didn't pay that amount either. The Lottery stores selling lotto tickets, soft drinks, magazines, & newspapers couldn't afford that rent either. KB being a national retailer on a much smaller scale paid more than the mom & pop but there were not paying the premium rent that the big players paid. The anchor store while they had lots of space and were considered the stores that would draw in the traffic, they were paying very little per square foot for rent.

 

 

I know Mitt wasn't with Bain when they KB deal was done. My point was that he worked for that company that had predatory business practices and they did some very shading deals in the eyes of a lot people. Anyone running for public office is subject to this scrutiny. People want to know what role he played when he was there in the deals that went bad or looked very shady.

 

I certainly hope I cleared things up a bit. I wasn't trying to come up as disingenuous.

Edited July 5, 2012 by tomato can

[3rdnlng]

I have not lied to you. I will try and help you to better understand what I am saying. Yes there are standard practices. The mall had to go against the grain and do things to keep certain retailers there and to pay the bills. The mall in the 90's was a thriving mall with almost 1 million square feet of property. It was anchored by Carson Pirie Scott, Montgomery Wards, Circuit City, & Walgreens, yes Walgreens was there for a long long time. Hard to believe but we had them. Wards went bankrupt and closed I believe in 1998? It was a big loss. They had 4 levels and over 400,000 square foot. In 2004 Circuit City was in such bad shape they closed our location. Walgreens was wanting out because there stores were all free standing. We had no luck getting a retailer to take the Wards location. It sat empty and the losing Circuit City hurt. Some very good National Retailers like New York & Company, Limited, Limited Express, & Wilson's Leather to name a few did not resign leases and left. Sam Goody and Musicland were in financial trouble with the downloading of music online. Everyone that remained there was feeling the pinch of less traffic in the mall. Some of those locations were replaced with stores like Man Alive, Jimmy Jazz, J Bees, DTLR. The mall was becoming more of an Urban mall by adding those hip hop stores. Walgreens closed their location and began to try and sub-lease it. The mom & pop stores that were there for years were hanging tough. The nationals that remained knew they were in a position to bargain. Men's Footlocker, Ladies Footlocker, Finish Line, Champs Sports, Ashley Stewart, Lane Bryant, & Finish Line to name a few all had big stores, some as big as 15,000 to 20,000 square feet. Reduced levels of traffic = reduced levels in sales. Their real estate people knew this and wanted a much better deal to remain. I wont say which one but one of them were able to even cut a deal for just percentage rent.

 

I know there are standard practices in this business. Even in good times when the malls could stick to those practices. Kb Toys did not pay the same amount per square foot as a Men's Footlocker, Finish Line, Lane Bryant, Victoria Secret, Bath & Body Works. They were never capable of generating the amount of sales those retailers could. Those national retailers that could generate big sales numbers paid the $40 per square foot rent. The moms and pops didn't pay that amount either. The Lottery stores selling lotto tickets, soft drinks, magazines, & newspapers couldn't afford that rent either. KB being a national retailer on a much smaller scale paid more than the mom & pop but there were not paying the premium rent that the big players paid. The anchor store while they had lots of space and were considered the stores that would draw in the traffic, they were paying very little per square foot for rent.

 

 

I know Mitt wasn't with Bain when they KB deal was done. My point was that he worked for that company that had predatory business practices and they did some very shading deals in the eyes of a lot people. Anyone running for public office is subject to this scrutiny. People want to know what role he played when he was there in the deals that went bad or looked very shady.

 

I certainly hope I cleared things up a bit. I wasn't trying to come up as disingenuous.

Appreciate the time spent on your post. I will respond, just not today.

[Doc]

I have not lied to you. I will try and help you to better understand what I am saying. Yes there are standard practices. The mall had to go against the grain and do things to keep certain retailers there and to pay the bills. The mall in the 90's was a thriving mall with almost 1 million square feet of property. It was anchored by Carson Pirie Scott, Montgomery Wards, Circuit City, & Walgreens, yes Walgreens was there for a long long time. Hard to believe but we had them. Wards went bankrupt and closed I believe in 1998? It was a big loss. They had 4 levels and over 400,000 square foot. In 2004 Circuit City was in such bad shape they closed our location. Walgreens was wanting out because there stores were all free standing. We had no luck getting a retailer to take the Wards location. It sat empty and the losing Circuit City hurt. Some very good National Retailers like New York & Company, Limited, Limited Express, & Wilson's Leather to name a few did not resign leases and left. Sam Goody and Musicland were in financial trouble with the downloading of music online. Everyone that remained there was feeling the pinch of less traffic in the mall. Some of those locations were replaced with stores like Man Alive, Jimmy Jazz, J Bees, DTLR. The mall was becoming more of an Urban mall by adding those hip hop stores. Walgreens closed their location and began to try and sub-lease it. The mom & pop stores that were there for years were hanging tough. The nationals that remained knew they were in a position to bargain. Men's Footlocker, Ladies Footlocker, Finish Line, Champs Sports, Ashley Stewart, Lane Bryant, & Finish Line to name a few all had big stores, some as big as 15,000 to 20,000 square feet. Reduced levels of traffic = reduced levels in sales. Their real estate people knew this and wanted a much better deal to remain. I wont say which one but one of them were able to even cut a deal for just percentage rent.

 

I know there are standard practices in this business. Even in good times when the malls could stick to those practices. Kb Toys did not pay the same amount per square foot as a Men's Footlocker, Finish Line, Lane Bryant, Victoria Secret, Bath & Body Works. They were never capable of generating the amount of sales those retailers could. Those national retailers that could generate big sales numbers paid the $40 per square foot rent. The moms and pops didn't pay that amount either. The Lottery stores selling lotto tickets, soft drinks, magazines, & newspapers couldn't afford that rent either. KB being a national retailer on a much smaller scale paid more than the mom & pop but there were not paying the premium rent that the big players paid. The anchor store while they had lots of space and were considered the stores that would draw in the traffic, they were paying very little per square foot for rent.

 

 

I know Mitt wasn't with Bain when they KB deal was done. My point was that he worked for that company that had predatory business practices and they did some very shading deals in the eyes of a lot people. Anyone running for public office is subject to this scrutiny. People want to know what role he played when he was there in the deals that went bad or looked very shady.

 

I certainly hope I cleared things up a bit. I wasn't trying to come up as disingenuous.

The Solyndra deal looks incredibly shady, and that involved taxpayers' money, not private equity. But people will believe what they want to believe.

 

WRT Romney's time at Bain, there are distinct roles/goals depending on the job. Romney's job was to make money, with the idea that successful companies would grow and hire more employees. I doubt Bain went into every venture saying "we're going to suck the life out of this company, muahahahaha!" And at least in the case of GST Steel, they kept that company alive far longer than it had business to be. Maybe KB was a shady job by them, but again Romney wasn't there when they were acquired, much less went bankrupt, so how that's on him is anyone's guess. But again, people will believe what they want to believe.

[3rdnlng]

The Solyndra deal looks incredibly shady, and that involved taxpayers' money, not private equity. But people will believe what they want to believe.

 

WRT Romney's time at Bain, there are distinct roles/goals depending on the job. Romney's job was to make money, with the idea that successful companies would grow and hire more employees. I doubt Bain went into every venture saying "we're going to suck the life out of this company, muahahahaha!" And at least in the case of GST Steel, they kept that company alive far longer than it had business to be. Maybe KB was a shady job by them, but again Romney wasn't there when they were acquired, much less went bankrupt, so how that's on him is anyone's guess. But again, people will believe what they want to believe.

 

 

A year before they went bankrupt and two years after Prentice purchased them they got a loan from GE Capital of 200 million dollars. They were a viable company right up until the fall of '08 when their sales suddenly dropped by 20%. The schit had hit the fan economically in this country and people weren't buying things that weren't a necessity. KB Toys couldn't weather the storm. To try to blame it on Bain is disingenuous. To try to blame it on Romney is laughable. While he was with Bain they purchased 40 troubled companies, 33 survived and prospered. I wonder how his record compares as a venture capitalist in relation to Obama? Seems like Obama's ventures are putting people out of work all over the place.

[DC Tom]

A year before they went bankrupt and two years after Prentice purchased them they got a loan from GE Capital of 200 million dollars. They were a viable company right up until the fall of '08 when their sales suddenly dropped by 20%. The schit had hit the fan economically in this country and people weren't buying things that weren't a necessity. KB Toys couldn't weather the storm. To try to blame it on Bain is disingenuous. To try to blame it on Romney is laughable. While he was with Bain they purchased 40 troubled companies, 33 survived and prospered. I wonder how his record compares as a venture capitalist in relation to Obama? Seems like Obama's ventures are putting people out of work all over the place.

 

Actually, they went bankrupt twice in four years - the second, under Prentice, they just couldn't recover from.

 

Tough to argue they were viable, really, when they couldn't even successfully reorganize to survive the first time. Regardless of GE Capital's actions.

[3rdnlng]

Actually, they went bankrupt twice in four years - the second, under Prentice, they just couldn't recover from.

 

Tough to argue they were viable, really, when they couldn't even successfully reorganize to survive the first time. Regardless of GE Capital's actions.

 

Well, obviously they came out of the first bankruptcy. From all reports they were in the black until their sales got hit really hard in the autumn of '08. Regardless, this doesn't fall on Bain, let alone Romney.

[Rob's House]

I know Mitt wasn't with Bain when they KB deal was done. My point was that he worked for that company that had predatory business practices and they did some very shading deals in the eyes of a lot people. Anyone running for public office is subject to this scrutiny. People want to know what role he played when he was there in the deals that went bad or looked very shady.

Does this same scrutiny apply to black Democrats & their associations with known criminals and racists?

[Doc]

A year before they went bankrupt and two years after Prentice purchased them they got a loan from GE Capital of 200 million dollars. They were a viable company right up until the fall of '08 when their sales suddenly dropped by 20%. The schit had hit the fan economically in this country and people weren't buying things that weren't a necessity. KB Toys couldn't weather the storm. To try to blame it on Bain is disingenuous. To try to blame it on Romney is laughable. While he was with Bain they purchased 40 troubled companies, 33 survived and prospered. I wonder how his record compares as a venture capitalist in relation to Obama? Seems like Obama's ventures are putting people out of work all over the place.

I agree. But in any case, the KB thing is all underground/far-left stuff anyway. Otherwise it would have been made into a commercial already.

[OCinBuffalo]

Speaking of women you sure got your panties in a bunch just kidding.

 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this topic. One valid point that you made was there was a good chance that KB was headed for this. Bain just made sure they got them there faster. I mean heck we are all going to die some day, I don't think we are looking for someone to speed that up.....

 

One last point that I would like to state again. Bain was sued by the creditors. They were sued because the acted totally unethical, they looted this company of its money, and screwed the creditors. Those creditors had a good solid case and were ready to prove it in court. Bain not wanting to be expossed for this quickly settled and made sure that the terms were not disclosed. You can say so what. I say those are the facts and they are undisputed!

 

And as Billy O would say................I will give you the last word

Hello again Mr. White Flag.

 

I didn't make any major points. Politifact made them, and I just pasted them in. I also clearly pointed out that you linked to an unusable website to make your points.

 

This argument, and the one being made against Romney/Bain, is over....but not because you say it is. Rather, it's over because the facts don't support what you are saying, you know it, more importantly, the Obama campaign knows it, and that's what counts.

 

And, this argument is irrelevant, because, once again, Romney wasn't at Bain for any of this activity. This is the cheapest form of political attack...and now we all know it.

 

There's an easy way to test this: let's see how many more times we hear the words Bain Capital from the lips of Obama Campaign people. (Talking heads don't count, as they are clearly being paid to grasp at straws at this point). What will you set the over/under at?

[Gary M]

No, thats just really a very poor analogy. Its always used facetiously as a backhanded compliment usually referring to fascists or communist regimes. Like, "Say what you want about the DDR but at least the trains ran on time." And if that isn't enough, a quick search on the origin of this quote yielded this:

 

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-popular-phrases-that-make-you-look-like-idiot/

 

Say what you want about Obama, but he got Bin Laden.