Pat Tillman Disrespected With Words Put In His Mouth

[3rdnlng]

Pretty sure Tilman's last words were: "men..just...vote...obama." Just me opining.

 

mlm

[DC Tom]

i was an ast before i hurt my shoulder.

 

your insecurity is beyond the pale. not only do you right wingers insult a dead soldier, you distort literal, actual facts. this post is pretty sick...

 

1) I'm not a right-winger.

2) Don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back for all your soldiering. Might not be as limber as you think from all that desk work, Coastie.

[MARCELL DAREUS POWER]

1) I'm not a right-winger.

2) Don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back for all your soldiering. Might not be as limber as you think from all that desk work, Coastie.

 

youre so !@#$ing stupid, you dont even know your own ideology... wow, just wow...

 

 

the fact that you dont know what sks do in the coast guard is one thing, but 2, the fact that people here would lie about tillmans record to score political pts on ppp is appalling...

 

seriously man, insult me all you want. just dont insult pat tillman or any soldier who dies for this country.

 

sick !@#$...

 

Should I expect that you will pm me again asking for advice on how to get laid? I'll tell you the same thing. Go to Sundowners with alot of money. You'll have a 50/50 chance. Other than that you're on your own, as usual.

 

 

ooh, a typing error...

 

like i said, stop insulting dead soldiers because you are to much of a kitty.

 

again, get a life.

 

what a loser...

Edited June 29, 2012 by MARCELL DAREUS POWER

[MARCELL DAREUS POWER]

[Koko78]

ooh, a typing error...

 

like i said, stop insulting dead soldiers because you are to much of a kitty.

 

again, get a life.

 

what a loser...

 

You do understand that just because you repeatedly claim he insulted dead soldiers does not make it so?

[MARCELL DAREUS POWER]

A report described in The Washington Post on May 4, 2005, prepared at the request of Tillman's family by Brigadier General Gary M. Jones revealed that in the days immediately following Tillman's death, Army investigators were aware that Tillman had been killed by friendly fire, shot three times in the head.[12] Jones reported that senior Army commanders, including General John Abizaid, knew of this fact within days of the shooting but nevertheless approved the awarding of the Silver Star, Purple Heart, and a posthumous promotion to the rank of Corporal.[13]

 

Lieutenant General Stanley McChrystal approved the Silver Star citation on April 28, 2004, which gave a detailed account of Tillman's death including the phrase "in the line of devastating enemy fire," but the next day he sent a P4 confidential memo warning senior government members that Tillman might actually have been killed by friendly fire.[14] Top commanders within the US Central Command, including former Commander of the United States Central Command (CENTCOM) General John Abizaid, should have been notified by the P4 memo,[15] which described Tillman's "highly possible" fratricide, four days before Tillman's nationally televised memorial service during which he was lauded as a war hero for dying while engaging the enemy.[16][17]

 

Jones reported that members of Tillman's unit burned his body armor and uniform in an apparent attempt to hide the fact that he was killed by friendly fire.[18] His notebook, in which – according to author Jon Krakauer – Tillman had recorded some of his thoughts on Afghanistan, was also burned; "a blatant violation of protocol".[19] Several soldiers were subsequently punished for their actions by being removed from the United States Army Rangers. Jones believed that Tillman should retain his medals and promotion, since, according to Jones, he intended to engage the enemy and behaved heroically.[18]

 

Tillman's family was not informed of the finding that he was killed by friendly fire until weeks after his memorial service, although at least some senior Army officers knew of that fact prior to the service.[18] According to Krakauer in his book Where Men Win Glory, the extensive cover-up that followed his death included the military's order to Tillman's comrades to lie to his family at the funeral.[19] Tillman's parents have sharply criticized the Army's handling of the incident; Tillman's father charges that the Army "purposely interfered in the investigation" because of the effect it could have on their recruiting efforts, while Tillman's mother charges that "this lie was to cover their image."[20]

 

 

After it happened, all the people in positions of authority went out of their way to script this. They purposely interfered with the investigation; they covered it up. I think they thought they could control it, and they realized that their recruiting efforts were going to go to hell in a handbasket if the truth about his death got out. They blew up their poster boy.[20]

 

He also blamed high-ranking Army officers for presenting "outright lies" to the family and to the public.[21]

 

On March 4, 2006, the US Defense Department Inspector General directed the Army to open a criminal investigation of Tillman's death. The Army's Criminal Investigative Division will determine if Tillman's death was the result of negligent homicide.[22]

 

On March 26, 2007, the Pentagon released their report on the events surrounding Tillman's death and coverup. The report reads in part:

 

 

...we emphasize that all investigators established the basic facts of CPL Tillman's death – that it was caused by friendly fire, that the occupants of one vehicle in CPL Tillman's platoon were responsible, and that circumstances on the ground caused those occupants to misidentify friendly forces as hostile. None of the investigations suggested that CPL Tillman's death was anything other than accidental. Our review, as well as the investigation recently completed by Army CID, obtained no evidence contrary to those key findings.[23]

 

On April 24, 2007, Iraq veteran Jessica Lynch, who had been captured by the Iraqis after a fire fight, gave testimony before the United States House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform that the Pentagon had erroneously portrayed her as a "Rambo from the hills of West Virginia," when in fact, she never fired a shot after her truck was ambushed.[24] Tillman's brother Kevin Tillman testified at the same hearing that: "The deception surrounding this [Tillman] case was an insult to the family: but more importantly, its primary purpose was to deceive a whole nation. We say these things with disappointment and sadness for our country. Once again, we have been used as props in a Pentagon public relations exercise."[25]

 

After Kevin's testimony Pete Geren, acting secretary of the Army stated to reporters, "We as an Army failed in our duty to the Tillman family, the duty we owe to all the families of our fallen soldiers: Give them the truth, the best we know it, as fast as we can."[25]

 

Tillman's diary was never returned to his family, and its whereabouts are not publicly known.[26]

 

One investigation of the autopsy report and photographs by two forensic pathologists in November 2006, concluded that Tillman was most likely killed as a result of fire from a M249 light machine gun. The M249 uses the same ammunition as the M16 rifle and M4 carbine but is capable of greater accuracy during higher rates of fire. This would allow a competent user to place three bullets within a several-inch target from forty or fifty yards away more easily, even from a moving vehicle.[3]

 

On July 26, 2007, Chris Matthews reported on Hardball that Tillman's death may have been a case of deliberate murder by Tillman's fellow soldiers – specifically that the bullet holes were tight and neat, suggesting a shot at close range. Matthews based his speculation on a report from the doctors who examined Tillman's body. The following day the Associated Press reported that a doctor who examined Tillman's body after his death wrote, "The medical evidence did not match up with the scenario as described,"[27] also noting that the wound entrances appeared as though he had been shot with an M16 rifle from fewer than 10 yards (9 m) away. A possible motive was not identified. When officers and soldiers were asked during a criminal investigation, they said they were certain the shooting was accidental. According to one of his fellow soldiers, Tillman "was popular among his fellow soldiers and had no enemies."[27][28]

wiki-

 

 

In addition, in response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed by the Associated Press, the Defense Department released 2,300 pages of documents which were reported to indicate:[27]

There has never been evidence of enemy fire found on the scene, and no members of Tillman's group had been hit by enemy fire.

The three-star general, who withheld details of Tillman's death from his parents for a number of months, told investigators approximately 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.

Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.

Army doctors told the investigators that Tillman's wounds suggested murder because "the medical evidence did not match-up with the scenario as described."[29]

There were special forces snipers in the group immediately behind Tillman's platoon.[29]

 

Despite his fame, Tillman did not want to be used for propaganda purposes. He spoke to friends about his opposition to President Bush and the Iraq war, and he had made an appointment with notable government critic Noam Chomsky after his return from the military. The destruction of evidence linked to Tillman's death, including his personal journal, led his mother to speculate that he was murdered.[30] General Wesley Clark agreed that it was "very possible".[31][32]

Edited June 29, 2012 by MARCELL DAREUS POWER

[DC Tom]

youre so !@#$ing stupid, you dont even know your own ideology... wow, just wow...

 

Let me spell this out for you: you're an idiot. You being an idiot does not make me a "right-winger". It makes you an idiot.

 

the fact that you dont know what sks do in the coast guard is one thing, but 2, the fact that people here would lie about tillmans record to score political pts on ppp is appalling...

 

Logistics. They mind the shop. Basically, you're bragging about being qualified to work at Wal-Mart. Good job, Warfighter!

 

Coast Guard: for when the Air Force is just too much damn work.

[3rdnlng]

A report described in The Washington Post on May 4, 2005, prepared at the request of Tillman's family by Brigadier General Gary M. Jones revealed that in the days immediately following Tillman's death, Army investigators were aware that Tillman had been killed by friendly fire, shot three times in the head.[12] Jones reported that senior Army commanders, including General John Abizaid, knew of this fact within days of the shooting but nevertheless approved the awarding of the Silver Star, Purple Heart, and a posthumous promotion to the rank of Corporal.[13]

 

Lieutenant General Stanley McChrystal approved the Silver Star citation on April 28, 2004, which gave a detailed account of Tillman's death including the phrase "in the line of devastating enemy fire," but the next day he sent a P4 confidential memo warning senior government members that Tillman might actually have been killed by friendly fire.[14] Top commanders within the US Central Command, including former Commander of the United States Central Command (CENTCOM) General John Abizaid, should have been notified by the P4 memo,[15] which described Tillman's "highly possible" fratricide, four days before Tillman's nationally televised memorial service during which he was lauded as a war hero for dying while engaging the enemy.[16][17]

 

Jones reported that members of Tillman's unit burned his body armor and uniform in an apparent attempt to hide the fact that he was killed by friendly fire.[18] His notebook, in which according to author Jon Krakauer Tillman had recorded some of his thoughts on Afghanistan, was also burned; "a blatant violation of protocol".[19] Several soldiers were subsequently punished for their actions by being removed from the United States Army Rangers. Jones believed that Tillman should retain his medals and promotion, since, according to Jones, he intended to engage the enemy and behaved heroically.[18]

 

Tillman's family was not informed of the finding that he was killed by friendly fire until weeks after his memorial service, although at least some senior Army officers knew of that fact prior to the service.[18] According to Krakauer in his book Where Men Win Glory, the extensive cover-up that followed his death included the military's order to Tillman's comrades to lie to his family at the funeral.[19] Tillman's parents have sharply criticized the Army's handling of the incident; Tillman's father charges that the Army "purposely interfered in the investigation" because of the effect it could have on their recruiting efforts, while Tillman's mother charges that "this lie was to cover their image."[20]

 

 

After it happened, all the people in positions of authority went out of their way to script this. They purposely interfered with the investigation; they covered it up. I think they thought they could control it, and they realized that their recruiting efforts were going to go to hell in a handbasket if the truth about his death got out. They blew up their poster boy.[20]

 

He also blamed high-ranking Army officers for presenting "outright lies" to the family and to the public.[21]

 

On March 4, 2006, the US Defense Department Inspector General directed the Army to open a criminal investigation of Tillman's death. The Army's Criminal Investigative Division will determine if Tillman's death was the result of negligent homicide.[22]

 

On March 26, 2007, the Pentagon released their report on the events surrounding Tillman's death and coverup. The report reads in part:

 

 

...we emphasize that all investigators established the basic facts of CPL Tillman's death that it was caused by friendly fire, that the occupants of one vehicle in CPL Tillman's platoon were responsible, and that circumstances on the ground caused those occupants to misidentify friendly forces as hostile. None of the investigations suggested that CPL Tillman's death was anything other than accidental. Our review, as well as the investigation recently completed by Army CID, obtained no evidence contrary to those key findings.[23]

 

On April 24, 2007, Iraq veteran Jessica Lynch, who had been captured by the Iraqis after a fire fight, gave testimony before the United States House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform that the Pentagon had erroneously portrayed her as a "Rambo from the hills of West Virginia," when in fact, she never fired a shot after her truck was ambushed.[24] Tillman's brother Kevin Tillman testified at the same hearing that: "The deception surrounding this [Tillman] case was an insult to the family: but more importantly, its primary purpose was to deceive a whole nation. We say these things with disappointment and sadness for our country. Once again, we have been used as props in a Pentagon public relations exercise."[25]

 

After Kevin's testimony Pete Geren, acting secretary of the Army stated to reporters, "We as an Army failed in our duty to the Tillman family, the duty we owe to all the families of our fallen soldiers: Give them the truth, the best we know it, as fast as we can."[25]

 

Tillman's diary was never returned to his family, and its whereabouts are not publicly known.[26]

 

One investigation of the autopsy report and photographs by two forensic pathologists in November 2006, concluded that Tillman was most likely killed as a result of fire from a M249 light machine gun. The M249 uses the same ammunition as the M16 rifle and M4 carbine but is capable of greater accuracy during higher rates of fire. This would allow a competent user to place three bullets within a several-inch target from forty or fifty yards away more easily, even from a moving vehicle.[3]

 

On July 26, 2007, Chris Matthews reported on Hardball that Tillman's death may have been a case of deliberate murder by Tillman's fellow soldiers specifically that the bullet holes were tight and neat, suggesting a shot at close range. Matthews based his speculation on a report from the doctors who examined Tillman's body. The following day the Associated Press reported that a doctor who examined Tillman's body after his death wrote, "The medical evidence did not match up with the scenario as described,"[27] also noting that the wound entrances appeared as though he had been shot with an M16 rifle from fewer than 10 yards (9 m) away. A possible motive was not identified. When officers and soldiers were asked during a criminal investigation, they said they were certain the shooting was accidental. According to one of his fellow soldiers, Tillman "was popular among his fellow soldiers and had no enemies."[27][28]

wiki-

 

 

In addition, in response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed by the Associated Press, the Defense Department released 2,300 pages of documents which were reported to indicate:[27]

There has never been evidence of enemy fire found on the scene, and no members of Tillman's group had been hit by enemy fire.

The three-star general, who withheld details of Tillman's death from his parents for a number of months, told investigators approximately 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.

Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.

Army doctors told the investigators that Tillman's wounds suggested murder because "the medical evidence did not match-up with the scenario as described."[29]

There were special forces snipers in the group immediately behind Tillman's platoon.[29]

 

Despite his fame, Tillman did not want to be used for propaganda purposes. He spoke to friends about his opposition to President Bush and the Iraq war, and he had made an appointment with notable government critic Noam Chomsky after his return from the military. The destruction of evidence linked to Tillman's death, including his personal journal, led his mother to speculate that he was murdered.[30] General Wesley Clark agreed that it was "very possible".[31][32]

 

 

This is so salient you should post it in OTW.

Edited June 29, 2012 by 3rdnlng

[DC Tom]

Got it. Thanks for explaining. I think it is a stretch (as would you) that the military killed Pat Tillman for his views, but the length they seemed to be willing to go to, to cover up the circumstances of his death, and to mis-characterize the circumstances as one thing, when they were another, has to at least give you some pause to wonder what they were so afraid of. It seems that "friendly fire" is an accepted part of war.

 

In World War II, Anglo-American planners planned for 10% "wastage" from friendly fire in any battle. (The Germans probably planned for about the same. The Russians probably expected 10% friendly fire casualties in the chow line alone.) In the South Pacific, in close-in jungle fighting, that turned out to be closer to 30%. In Desert Storm, it was closer to 80% (but that'll happen when the other guy isn't even shooting back).

 

And the American military has been rather uniquely susceptible to it - American doctrine since WWII has been based on firepower: put as much **** in the air as you possibly can. Some of it's bound to hit the target, and what doesn't keeps the other guy's head down (old saying from New Guinea in WWII: The Japanese were the best jungle fighters, then the Aussies. No one knew how well the Americans fought in the jungle, because they knocked it down first.) Unfortunately, a side effect of that is: when you put as much **** in the air as possible, some of it goes to the wrong place. Short artillery rounds, mortar rounds into overhead cover, twitchy sentries or gunner (the 82nd Airborne in Sicily suffered more casualties from the US Navy than they did from the Germans - something like a third of their transports were shot down approaching the island), idiot pilots misreading ground markers (the highest ranking casualty in Normandy - Lesley McNair - was killed by the US Eighth Air Force, the second time the Eight's B-17s bombed short and hit the VIII Corps in two straight days. The 30th Infantry Division, I think, took to calling the Ninth Air Force "The American Luftwaffe," they were bombed by their own planes so often - and shot back at them.) Idiot spotters mislaying ground makers (I recall one recent story, possibly apocryphal, where someone read the "source" GPS numbers off a laser spotter, rather than the "target", and ended up bombing his own team).

 

And it's not that new an issue, either. Stonewall Jackson was killed by friendly fire on a "commander's reconnaissance".

 

 

Bottom line: friendly fire happens. It always will. Even with "smart bombs" (because, y'know, **** breaks). Don't like it? Then don't fight stupid, meaningless wars (of which Afghanistan was not one, by the way).

[MARCELL DAREUS POWER]

Let me spell this out for you: you're an idiot. You being an idiot does not make me a "right-winger". It makes you an idiot.

 

 

 

Logistics. They mind the shop. Basically, you're bragging about being qualified to work at Wal-Mart. Good job, Warfighter!

 

Coast Guard: for when the Air Force is just too much damn work.

 

 

i never bragged about being in the coast guard, i said being in the military and having friends in all branches, i felt the need to speak up.

 

you dont even know what the coast guard does, your statement shows this... you dont even know how to classify your own ideology. you allow some piece of **** to lie about pat tillman to score pts on ppp.

 

again, get a life...

[Donald Duck]

If you were to ask every soldier in the United States Military their personal feelings about conflicts going on in different parts of the world I'm sure you will have opinions that differ, but what makes the sacrifices our soldiers endure even more significant is they put their own personal feelings aside and still carry out their missions for our Country even if it means compromising their own personal beliefs.

 

My late father told me a very sad story once about something that had happened to him during the Korean war and something that I'm sure troubled him until the day he passed away. The American soldiers at the time along with my Dad had a south Korean camp boy that helped around the camp. One day the camps mascot dog went up missing and come to find out the young camp boy had butchered the camps mascot and prepared it for all the American soldiers to eat with out them knowing it. The South Koreans took the young camp boy out in a field and shot him for his mistake. Retelling that story was one of the few times in my life that I ever seen my dad break down and cry.

 

I'm glad I was able to be there for my dad and listen to his troubling story, even though it still haunts me to this day.

[MARCELL DAREUS POWER]

In World War II, Anglo-American planners planned for 10% "wastage" from friendly fire in any battle. (The Germans probably planned for about the same. The Russians probably expected 10% friendly fire casualties in the chow line alone.) In the South Pacific, in close-in jungle fighting, that turned out to be closer to 30%. In Desert Storm, it was closer to 80% (but that'll happen when the other guy isn't even shooting back).

 

And the American military has been rather uniquely susceptible to it - American doctrine since WWII has been based on firepower: put as much **** in the air as you possibly can. Some of it's bound to hit the target, and what doesn't keeps the other guy's head down (old saying from New Guinea in WWII: The Japanese were the best jungle fighters, then the Aussies. No one knew how well the Americans fought in the jungle, because they knocked it down first.) Unfortunately, a side effect of that is: when you put as much **** in the air as possible, some of it goes to the wrong place. Short artillery rounds, mortar rounds into overhead cover, twitchy sentries or gunner (the 82nd Airborne in Sicily suffered more casualties from the US Navy than they did from the Germans - something like a third of their transports were shot down approaching the island), idiot pilots misreading ground markers (the highest ranking casualty in Normandy - Lesley McNair - was killed by the US Eighth Air Force, the second time the Eight's B-17s bombed short and hit the VIII Corps in two straight days. The 30th Infantry Division, I think, took to calling the Ninth Air Force "The American Luftwaffe," they were bombed by their own planes so often - and shot back at them.) Idiot spotters mislaying ground makers (I recall one recent story, possibly apocryphal, where someone read the "source" GPS numbers off a laser spotter, rather than the "target", and ended up bombing his own team).

 

And it's not that new an issue, either. Stonewall Jackson was killed by friendly fire on a "commander's reconnaissance".

 

 

Bottom line: friendly fire happens. It always will. Even with "smart bombs" (because, y'know, **** breaks). Don't like it? Then don't fight stupid, meaningless wars (of which Afghanistan was not one, by the way).

 

 

this post literally has nothing to do with what was being said. the question is why did they lie about his death, to a ridiculous level? there was also some evidence that suggested there might have been a murder. this was very similar to the jessica lynch propaganda story.

 

all i can say is this, please stop using pat tillman as some justification for your idea of a " good " war. the guy was clearly against the war in iraq, and wanted to meet with noam chomsky. Pat and his family had major problems with the whole bush doctrine and war on terror.

 

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200601019_after_pats_birthday/

 

wiki-

 

Jones reported that members of Tillman's unit burned his body armor and uniform in an apparent attempt to hide the fact that he was killed by friendly fire.[18] His notebook, in which – according to author Jon Krakauer – Tillman had recorded some of his thoughts on Afghanistan, was also burned; "a blatant violation of protocol".[19] Several soldiers were subsequently punished for their actions by being removed from the United States Army Rangers. Jones believed that Tillman should retain his medals and promotion, since, according to Jones, he intended to engage the enemy and behaved heroically.[18]

 

After reports of Tillman's anti-war views became public, Ted Rall who had previously written a comic calling Tillman a "fool" and "idiot," said that he was wrong to have assumed Tillman to be a "right wing poster child" when Tillman regarded the invasion of Iraq as illegal.[44][45]

 

....

 

Then-Lieutenant Colonel Ralph Kauzlarich, Regimental Executive Officer at Forward Operating Base Salerno on Khost, Afghanistan, under which Tillman was serving at the time of his death, and who led the second investigation into Tillman's death, made statements about the Tillman family’s search for the truth based on Tillman's atheism. In comments to ESPN, Kauzlarich said: "These people have a hard time letting it go. It may be because of their religious beliefs" and "When you die, I mean, there is supposedly a better life, right? Well, if you are an atheist and you don’t believe in anything, if you die, what is there to go to? Nothing. You are worm dirt. So for their son to die for nothing and now he is no more... I do not know how an atheist thinks, I can only imagine that would be pretty tough."[46]

 

Kauzlarich conducted the second investigation into Tillman's death which lasted a week, from May 8 to May 15, 2004.[47] Brigadier General Rodney Johnson, the Commanding General of the United States Army Criminal Investigations Command, testified before Congress that he found these statements "totally unacceptable." Acting Department of Defense Inspector General Thomas Gimble also testified that he was "shocked" that Lieutenant Colonel Kauzlarich would make these statements.[48] According to AP analysis, there are three lower level officers expected to be punished, and Kauzlarich may be one of the three. Tillman's mother continues to reject the Pentagon's characterization of the officers' offenses as "errors" in reporting Tillman's death, because several officers have said they made conscious decisions not to tell the Tillman family that friendly fire was suspected.[49]

 

If you were to ask every soldier in the United States Military their personal feelings about conflicts going on in different parts of the world I'm sure you will have opinions that differ, but what makes the sacrifices our soldiers endure even more significant is they put their own personal feelings aside and still carry out their missions for our Country even if it means compromising their own personal beliefs.

 

My late father told me a very sad story once about something that had happened to him during the Korean war and something that I'm sure troubled him until the day he passed away. The American soldiers at the time along with my Dad had a south Korean camp boy that helped around the camp. One day the camps mascot dog went up missing and come to find out the young camp boy had butchered the camps mascot and prepared it for all the American soldiers to eat with out them knowing it. The South Koreans took the young camp boy out in a field and shot him for his mistake. Retelling that story was one of the few times in my life that I ever seen my dad break down and cry.

 

I'm glad I was able to be there for my dad and listen to his troubling story, even though it still haunts me to this day.

 

 

 

great post.

[DC Tom]

this post literally has nothing to do with what was being said.

 

I'm not engaging you in this mindless little crusade of yours on this topic, !@#$wit, so I don't give a **** what you think. That post literally had everything to do with the comment I responded to.

 

i never bragged about being in the coast guard, i said being in the military and having friends in all branches, i felt the need to speak up.

 

No, you bragged about being in the military. You SAID you were in the Coast Guard, and said you drove a desk for two years. That's why I'm, with complete justification, mocking you.

 

And I know people in the military, too. Guess I'm just as expert as you are.

 

you dont even know what the coast guard does, your statement shows this... you dont even know how to classify your own ideology. you allow some piece of **** to lie about pat tillman to score pts on ppp.

 

again, get a life...

 

I "allow" someone to lie about Pat Tillman? What?

 

At least I'm not "allowing" you to lie about being in the military, you overblown piece of ****.

[3rdnlng]

I'm not engaging you in this mindless little crusade of yours on this topic, !@#$wit, so I don't give a **** what you think. That post literally had everything to do with the comment I responded to.

 

This guy is a troll and a crusader. I was in the Shoutbox last night trying to fix it because it was screwed up with another video and he kept posting over and over in the Shoutbox that I was a liar and was disrespecting Pat Tillman.

[DC Tom]

This guy is a troll and a crusader. I was in the Shoutbox last night trying to fix it because it was screwed up with another video and he kept posting over and over in the Shoutbox that I was a liar and was disrespecting Pat Tillman.

 

But he knows people in the military, and worked in the Coast Guard's equivalent of K-mart! So there!

 

 

You know what bugs me more than people who lie about being in the military? People who were in the military, but exaggerate their own contributions. "Yeah, I was a warfighter...I'm a hero!" Uh, yeah, okay...you filed reports on court martials of gay servicemen. That's not heroic. That's not even useful. Not all service is notable. Most ain't even heroic.

[3rdnlng]

But he knows people in the military, and worked in the Coast Guard's equivalent of K-mart! So there!

 

 

You know what bugs me more than people who lie about being in the military? People who were in the military, but exaggerate their own contributions. "Yeah, I was a warfighter...I'm a hero!" Uh, yeah, okay...you filed reports on court martials of gay servicemen. That's not heroic. That's not even useful. Not all service is notable. Most ain't even heroic.

 

I was in the service and after basic it was as if I was on vacation. I didn't shoot anyone and never got shot at. I was based on a tropical island and spent more time at the beach than working. I lived off base with 3 other guys, had a maid and a gardener and between us 4 motorcycles and 3 cars. Real hero, eh?

[DC Tom]

I was in the service and after basic it was as if I was on vacation. I didn't shoot anyone and never got shot at. I was based on a tropical island and spent more time at the beach than working. I lived off base with 3 other guys, had a maid and a gardener and between us 4 motorcycles and 3 cars. Real hero, eh?

 

But you were "protecting our freedom." I couldn't insult you today if it wasn't for your service. You're every bit as heroic as the guys who went across the beach at Normandy. God bless you.

 

I still can't believe how many people think that way. The degree to which this country blindly worships the military is extremely disturbing.

[3rdnlng]

But you were "protecting our freedom." I couldn't insult you today if it wasn't for your service. You're every bit as heroic as the guys who went across the beach at Normandy. God bless you.

 

I still can't believe how many people think that way. The degree to which this country blindly worships the military is extremely disturbing.

 

 

There are many reasons people join up. Some do it to make it a career, while others do it to learn a trade. Others do it for the educational benefits. I suppose some even do it because they haven't figured out what they really want to do yet. The ones that join up and purposely put themselves in harms way have my utmost respect. The others have my respect too, but they don't get any more respect from me than the average person.

[KD in CA]

Wow, really? We're still punting around the Pat Tillman political football?

 

 

[3rdnlng]

Wow, really? We're still punting around the Pat Tillman political football?

 

 

 

Did you read my OP? That idiot Toure from MSNBC made some pretty outlandish statements.