3rdnlng Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/06/27/msnbcs_toure_did_the_military_purposely_kill_tillman_to_shut_him_up.htm "[Pat] Tillman has become such a complicated symbol of sort of Rorschached that you can almost take anything you want in this great American who turns down of millions of dollars to go fight for his country and then he's like, 'Wait a minute. I don't like Afghanistan. I don't believe in the mission we're fighting for. But wait a minute, I'm going to continue to fight just the same as if I did believe in the mission,'" MSNBC's cultural critic Toure said on the network today. "You know, I mean, for the Army to have the most high-profiled soldier come out of the Army and perhaps criticize the mission would have been devastating for the military. So it's not quite clear what happened, actually, in Afghanistan. I mean, just a very complicated situation. I can see how many people could try to take it in the wrong direction," Toure surmised on the new MSNBC program "The Cycle." I read a few reviews of his wife's book "Letters" just to see if she mentioned anything like this in the book. Nada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Not surprising. Liberals in the media don't seem to feel the need to be bound by the truth when they're advocating something they believe in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 So we have a liberal who can't comprehend walking away from millions of $ to serve the country.... ....making thousands of $ by besmirching it, and the guy, and the Army, based on nothing other than conjecture? Love how this idiot gets right up to the line, and then realizes he's being a fool, and then plays it off by talking about "other people" taking it in the wrong direction. What a moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) wiki- In addition, in response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed by the Associated Press, the Defense Department released 2,300 pages of documents which were reported to indicate:[27] There has never been evidence of enemy fire found on the scene, and no members of Tillman's group had been hit by enemy fire. The three-star general, who withheld details of Tillman's death from his parents for a number of months, told investigators approximately 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions. Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments. Army doctors told the investigators that Tillman's wounds suggested murder because "the medical evidence did not match-up with the scenario as described."[29] There were special forces snipers in the group immediately behind Tillman's platoon.[29] Despite his fame, Tillman did not want to be used for propaganda purposes. He spoke to friends about his opposition to President Bush and the Iraq war, and he had made an appointment with notable government critic Noam Chomsky after his return from the military. The destruction of evidence linked to Tillman's death, including his personal journal, led his mother to speculate that he was murdered.[30] General Wesley Clark agreed that it was "very possible".[31][32] On October 19, 2006, Tillman's brother Kevin broke his silence about his brother's death, lashing out at the Iraq War in a 660-word essay published on Truthdig, a progressive online journal of news and opinion.[52] The essay was widely distributed and was cited in The New York Times and Associated Press.[53] he was also quoted as saying the iraq war was illegal... you right wingers on this board are so detached from reality, so beyond the pale, that you would lie about a fallen soldiers political views. as a former military member, i say, !@#$ YOU! You guys are really sick... Edited June 27, 2012 by MARCELL DAREUS POWER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 as a former military member, i say, !@#$ YOU! You were Coast Guard. You were a !@#$ing Boy Scout with a boat - not even. You said you did office work. You were a !@#$ing Boy Scout with a desk! "Former military member." Good one. You can put that Purple Heart for all your paper cuts on the mantle right next to your Nobel Prize for Economics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/06/27/msnbcs_toure_did_the_military_purposely_kill_tillman_to_shut_him_up.htm "[Pat] Tillman has become such a complicated symbol of sort of Rorschached that you can almost take anything you want in this great American who turns down of millions of dollars to go fight for his country and then he's like, 'Wait a minute. I don't like Afghanistan. I don't believe in the mission we're fighting for. But wait a minute, I'm going to continue to fight just the same as if I did believe in the mission,'" MSNBC's cultural critic Toure said on the network today. "You know, I mean, for the Army to have the most high-profiled soldier come out of the Army and perhaps criticize the mission would have been devastating for the military. So it's not quite clear what happened, actually, in Afghanistan. I mean, just a very complicated situation. I can see how many people could try to take it in the wrong direction," Toure surmised on the new MSNBC program "The Cycle." I read a few reviews of his wife's book "Letters" just to see if she mentioned anything like this in the book. Nada. The article you are linking will not open. I am not sure of what reviews of his wife's book you are referencing, but if you see the documentary "The Tillman Story", Pats' family leaves little doubt that he wasn't in full support of the mission he undertook. As they (his family, the people the knew him) portray it, although he was in doubt about the wisdom of the mission, he was loyal to his fellow troops, more than anything. They were all surprised, though they understood (because it was part of his DNA- loyalty) when he re-enlisted. His wife, brother and parents all certainly gave that impression. IIRC, I think it was his wife, who mentioned, early on, right after his death, when he was being given military honors at college and pro football games across Arizona, she felt conflicted about accepting their requests for her to participate, given his feelings about the mission. I suspect, if Mrs Tillman didn't mention these things in her book (and I will assume you are right) it was because she was honoring her husbands memory, rather than trying to make a political statement out of his life and death. So we have a liberal who can't comprehend walking away from millions of $ to serve the country.... ....making thousands of $ by besmirching it, and the guy, and the Army, based on nothing other than conjecture? Love how this idiot gets right up to the line, and then realizes he's being a fool, and then plays it off by talking about "other people" taking it in the wrong direction. What a moron. It would be nice to be able to read the link that you guys are referencing, but from what I know of the Tillman story, it seems like you, and others here, are basically jumping all over a MSN media source (whatever that means anymore) because it is is not in line with your wishes, while ignoring the actual story that inspired all of these things. If anyone is guilty of besmirching, you would have to accuse Tillman's family. You really want to got there? The whole bit about a "liberal not being able to comprehend giving up millions to serve their country" is just a further insight into your partisanship on this particular topic. Most can't comprehend it, which is why he was revered as such a hero, and symbol of the greatness of the American spirit. It is not like there have been thousands, or even dozens, who made the kind of personal sacrifice that Tillman made, to serve their country. If there were, we likely wouldn't even be talking about Pat Tillman all these years later. His sacrifice is part of what made him such a great symbol. Edited June 28, 2012 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 The article you are linking will not open. ... It would be nice to be able to read the link that you guys are referencing... http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pat+tillman+toure+msnbc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 The article you are linking will not open. I am not sure of what reviews of his wife's book you are referencing, but if you see the documentary "The Tillman Story", Pats' family leaves little doubt that he wasn't in full support of the mission he undertook. As they (his family, the people the knew him) portray it, although he was in doubt about the wisdom of the mission, he was loyal to his fellow troops, more than anything. They were all surprised, though they understood (because it was part of his DNA- loyalty) when he re-enlisted. His wife, brother and parents all certainly gave that impression. IIRC, I think it was his wife, who mentioned, early on, right after his death, when he was being given military honors at college and pro football games across Arizona, she felt conflicted about accepting their requests for her to participate, given his feelings about the mission. I suspect, if Mrs Tillman didn't mention these things in her book (and I will assume you are right) it was because she was honoring her husbands memory, rather than trying to make a political statement out of his life and death. It would be nice to be able to read the link that you guys are referencing, but from what I know of the Tillman story, it seems like you, and others here, are basically jumping all over a MSN media source (whatever that means anymore) because it is is not in line with your wishes, while ignoring the actual story that inspired all of these things. If anyone is guilty of besmirching, you would have to accuse Tillman's family. You really want to got there? The whole bit about a "liberal not being able to comprehend giving up millions to serve their country" is just a further insight into your partisanship on this particular topic. Most can't comprehend it, which is why he was revered as such a hero, and symbol of the greatness of the American spirit. It is not like there have been thousands, or even dozens, who made the kind of personal sacrifice that Tillman made, to serve their country. If there were, we likely wouldn't even be talking about Pat Tillman all these years later. His sacrifice is part of what made him such a great symbol. Buftex, don't confuse Iraq with Afghanistan. Pat Tillman said that he thought the war in Iraq was wrong. He didn't say that about Afghanistan. That fool, MDP, cherry picked the wiki article. I'd have nailed him about it but I just took a shower and didn't want to waste the time to take another shower. Anyway, look it up and you'll find out whatever truth wiki provides. The MSNBC segment tried to make it look as if Pat's wife thought Pat was going to come out against the war and was killed for it. The MSNBC guy intimated that Pat Tillman was killed by the U.S. military because he was against the war in (sounded like Afghanistan) and the military was afraid of the complications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) You were Coast Guard. You were a !@#$ing Boy Scout with a boat - not even. You said you did office work. You were a !@#$ing Boy Scout with a desk! "Former military member." Good one. You can put that Purple Heart for all your paper cuts on the mantle right next to your Nobel Prize for Economics. i was an ast before i hurt my shoulder. your insecurity is beyond the pale. not only do you right wingers insult a dead soldier, you distort literal, actual facts. this post is pretty sick... Edited June 28, 2012 by MARCELL DAREUS POWER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 i was an asts before i hurt my shoulder. fixed. And you still are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 fixed. And you still are. seriously man, this justifies a borderline ban for a few weeks. who insults a dead soldier(pat)? really? this is beyond politics. Buftex, don't confuse Iraq with Afghanistan. Pat Tillman said that he thought the war in Iraq was wrong. He didn't say that about Afghanistan. That fool, MDP, cherry picked the wiki article. I'd have nailed him about it but I just took a shower and didn't want to waste the time to take another shower. Anyway, look it up and you'll find out whatever truth wiki provides. The MSNBC segment tried to make it look as if Pat's wife thought Pat was going to come out against the war and was killed for it. The MSNBC guy intimated that Pat Tillman was killed by the U.S. military because he was against the war in (sounded like Afghanistan) and the military was afraid of the complications. the quote i used talked about iraq, not afghanistan. it also pointed out a possible murder.... who lies about a dead soldiers politics to score pts on ppp? fixed. And you still are. i just reported you to admin. you should seriously be ashamed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 seriously man, this justifies a borderline ban for a few weeks. who insults a dead soldier(pat)? really? Well, considering that he was insulting you, you're wrong yet again. Unless you're dead, I doubt you qualify as a 'dead soldier'. If you are in fact dead, he's just impermissibly discriminating against the living impaired. Zombies are people too! For all intensive purposes, you're still an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 seriously man, this justifies a borderline ban for a few weeks. who insults a dead soldier(pat)? really? this is beyond politics. the quote i used talked about iraq, not afghanistan. it also pointed out a possible murder.... who lies about a dead soldiers politics to score pts on ppp? Now I really will need to take a shower. Do you have to be an ass in every thread? But anyways, irregardless, for any intensive purposes, noone cares what you think. Why don't you ask a mod to ban me? Ask them to read over your's and my (and everyone elses) posts. If you are truly a Bills fan, I suggest you go over to the Jets board and mess with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Well, considering that he was insulting you, you're wrong yet again. Unless you're dead, I doubt you qualify as a 'dead soldier'. If you are in fact dead, he's just impermissibly discriminating against the living impaired. Zombies are people too! For all intensive purposes, you're still an idiot. no he insulted a dead soldier by lying about his politics to score pts here... Now I really will need to take a shower. Do you have to be an ass in every thread? But anyways, irregardless, for any intensive purposes, noone cares what you think. Why don't you ask a mod to ban me? Ask them to read over your's and my (and everyone elses) posts. If you are truly a Bills fan, I suggest you go over to the Jets board and mess with them. you lied about a dead soldier to score pts on this board... really man. not cool bro... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Well, considering that he was insulting you, you're wrong yet again. Unless you're dead, I doubt you qualify as a 'dead soldier'. If you are in fact dead, he's just impermissibly discriminating against the living impaired. Zombies are people too! For all intensive purposes, you're still an idiot. Maybe we should give him a little break today. He just got his notice that he was turned down for Bills season tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Maybe we should give him a little break today. He just got his notice that he was turned down for Bills season tickets. seriously man, if you pulled this **** in person, your face would be broked in about 10 pieces... you need serious help... get a life man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 seriously man, if you pulled this **** in person, your face would be broked in about 10 pieces... you need serious help... get a life man... Should I expect that you will pm me again asking for advice on how to get laid? I'll tell you the same thing. Go to Sundowners with alot of money. You'll have a 50/50 chance. Other than that you're on your own, as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Buftex, don't confuse Iraq with Afghanistan. Pat Tillman said that he thought the war in Iraq was wrong. He didn't say that about Afghanistan. That fool, MDP, cherry picked the wiki article. I'd have nailed him about it but I just took a shower and didn't want to waste the time to take another shower. Anyway, look it up and you'll find out whatever truth wiki provides. The MSNBC segment tried to make it look as if Pat's wife thought Pat was going to come out against the war and was killed for it. The MSNBC guy intimated that Pat Tillman was killed by the U.S. military because he was against the war in (sounded like Afghanistan) and the military was afraid of the complications. Got it. Thanks for explaining. I think it is a stretch (as would you) that the military killed Pat Tillman for his views, but the length they seemed to be willing to go to, to cover up the circumstances of his death, and to mis-characterize the circumstances as one thing, when they were another, has to at least give you some pause to wonder what they were so afraid of. It seems that "friendly fire" is an accepted part of war. A soldiers death, while serving his country, by "friendly fire" is no less honorable than one who dies at from the result of enemy fire. Why the need to manipulate the facts? It sure seems as though it was done to either cover something up, or to sway sentiments one way or another. I realize, to your point, that most accept the war in Afghanistan as a necessary evil. The Iraq war is viewed by many as an un-necessary evil. Tillman served in Iraq, and was killed in Afghanistan upon re-enlisting. I am not sure how the distinction between the two wars is relevant. You have a guy who was, for all intents and purposes, the poster boy for the war in the middle east, and he was expressing, at least to those closest to him, the wisdom of the war in Iraq. Who knows if, had he lived, if he would have spoken out publicly? I agree, it is silly for Toure to come out and act as though he knows this would have been the case, or to imply that the military intentionally murdered this guy. But, given the circumstances, it is just as presumptuous to assume the opposite. In the end though, this wasn't being reported as factual information, but just as a notion that Toure (and no doubt many others) has. It all comes back to what is "news" and what is "opining". Toure was opining. In another thread, you astutely made the point that FOX News has news content, and they have personalities like O'Riley or Hannity. We aren't supposed to take their thoughts as anything but editorializing, and that is what Toure is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Got it. Thanks for explaining. I think it is a stretch (as would you) that the military killed Pat Tillman for his views, but the length they seemed to be willing to go to, to cover up the circumstances of his death, and to mis-characterize the circumstances as one thing, when they were another, has to at least give you some pause to wonder what they were so afraid of. It seems that "friendly fire" is an accepted part of war. A soldiers death, while serving his country, by "friendly fire" is no less honorable than one who dies at from the result of enemy fire. Why the need to manipulate the facts? It sure seems as though it was done to either cover something up, or to sway sentiments one way or another. I realize, to your point, that most accept the war in Afghanistan as a necessary evil. The Iraq war is viewed by many as an un-necessary evil. Tillman served in Iraq, and was killed in Afghanistan upon re-enlisting. I am not sure how the distinction between the two wars is relevant. You have a guy who was, for all intents and purposes, the poster boy for the war in the middle east, and he was expressing, at least to those closest to him, the wisdom of the war in Iraq. Who knows if, had he lived, if he would have spoken out publicly? I agree, it is silly for Toure to come out and act as though he knows this would have been the case, or to imply that the military intentionally murdered this guy. But, given the circumstances, it is just as presumptuous to assume the opposite. In the end though, this wasn't being reported as factual information, but just as a notion that Toure (and no doubt many others) has. It all comes back to what is "news" and what is "opining". Toure was opining. In another thread, you astutely made the point that FOX News has news content, and they have personalities like O'Riley or Hannity. We aren't supposed to take their thoughts as anything but editorializing, and that is what Toure is doing. We are not far apart. Toure was over the top. We can have dissagrements about the wars. Hell, I have have dissagreements with myself on Iraq. Agree with most of your post. The last paragraph needs sober consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Pretty sure Tilman's last words were: "men..just...vote...obama." Just me opining. Edited June 28, 2012 by TheNewBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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