3rdnlng Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 The article........meh. The title to the article is what got me. In other words Obama's flip-flopping makes Romney's steadfastness look unprincipled? http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_big_idea/2012/06/obama_s_gay_marriage_and_immigration_moves_how_the_president_is_outfoxing_romney_.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 The gay thing maybe helps energize them so they show up more and a little in fundraising but doesn't do much as I see it. Immigration order was a little more clever IMO, he was going to win Hispanic vote either way (most agree anyway...certainly after the tone of the GOP primary) but it could help him block creeping efforts where Romney pulled closer to 50/50. And it does put him in a position where it brings it to the front momentarily prompting Romney to give non-answers as he straddles his party's staunch "wall building no-amnesty/work status base" with the long term goal of including Hispanics in the party and short term goal of not losing by such a wide margin. May also effect VP choice but that's speculative at best. May also cause some independents to raise eyebrows at responses if they are clumsy (again minial point). In any event the executive order was probably a political win at least early at this point. Either way until the conventions this thing hasn't even started yet so there's time for Romney to be stodgy and unprincipled on immigration so long as he figures it out within the next month or so. Plus let's be honest here if he has to go against his base more than he would like to this isn't abortion...there's a little more slack on this one (at least I would like to think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 24, 2012 Author Share Posted June 24, 2012 The gay thing maybe helps energize them so they show up more and a little in fundraising but doesn't do much as I see it. Immigration order was a little more clever IMO, he was going to win Hispanic vote either way (most agree anyway...certainly after the tone of the GOP primary) but it could help him block creeping efforts where Romney pulled closer to 50/50. And it does put him in a position where it brings it to the front momentarily prompting Romney to give non-answers as he straddles his party's staunch "wall building no-amnesty/work status base" with the long term goal of including Hispanics in the party and short term goal of not losing by such a wide margin. May also effect VP choice but that's speculative at best. May also cause some independents to raise eyebrows at responses if they are clumsy (again minial point). In any event the executive order was probably a political win at least early at this point. Either way until the conventions this thing hasn't even started yet so there's time for Romney to be stodgy and unprincipled on immigration so long as he figures it out within the next month or so. Plus let's be honest here if he has to go against his base more than he would like to this isn't abortion...there's a little more slack on this one (at least I would like to think). What was said in the article didn't mean a lot to me. I just thought the title to the article was a little strange. Agility=flip flopping and doing that makes your opponent unprincipled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) Obama repeated right wing bigotry to get elected so he can actually stop bigotry in govt. the issue is not the politics to get elected. its what that person actually does while in office. politicians get this, play politics. im sure there are examples of romney repeating left wing talking points to get elected in mass while he passed right wing legislation... we all knew obama was for gay marriage and ending the dont ask dont tell policy. if you didnt know that, youre an idiot as tom would say... its not obama or romneys fault people are dumb... Edited June 24, 2012 by MARCELL DAREUS POWER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 What was said in the article didn't mean a lot to me. I just thought the title to the article was a little strange. Agility=flip flopping and doing that makes your opponent unprincipled? Obama repeated right wing bigotry to get elected so he can actually stop bigotry in govt. the issue is not the politics to get elected. its what that person actually does while in office. politicians get this, play politics. im sure there are examples of romney repeating left wing talking points to get elected in mass while he passed right wing legislation... we all knew obama was for gay marriage and ending the dont ask dont tell policy. if you didnt know that, youre an idiot as tom would say... its not obama or romneys fault people are dumb... ya that sums it up to me 3rd...Obama and the Dems were always the "more progay/immigration" guys...it's not really turning around and running the other way agility it's more like going from jogging to running agility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) ya that sums it up to me 3rd...Obama and the Dems were always the "more progay/immigration" guys...it's not really turning around and running the other way agility it's more like going from jogging to running agility everyone flip flops. although i think romney is a bit too much... he only changed his mind on abortion 5 times. Edited June 24, 2012 by MARCELL DAREUS POWER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjl2nd Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 You can make the argument that Obama flip-flopped on gay marriage. He took too long on immigration since one of his promises was to fix immigration problems. Romney still has the problem on immigration. There was no need to say what he said in the primaries. Don't know why he took that approach. Republicans for the most part do not have a terrible record on immigration. He is going to struggle with the latino vote which could cost him the election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PearlHowardman Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 By November Obama's stance on gay marriage will be forgotten if it isn't already. Obama's stance on illegel immigration isn't so heroic. He's only allowing a certain segment of illegal immigrants to stay in the country. And only for two year increments. I think it works out to something like for every illegal immigrant that Obama allows to stay for two years there's ten illegal immigrants facing regular deportation. Pretty soon the hispanic community will wake up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Now leadership marked by indecisiveness and political opportunism is characterized as "agility"? Good grief, there really is no limit to the extent some people will go to protect this man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Now leadership marked by indecisiveness and political opportunism is characterized as "agility"? Good grief, there really is no limit to the extent some people will go to protect this man. Thank you for understanding what this thread was really about. Everyone else seemed to want to discuss the merits of a poorly composed article when I was calling out the duplicity of the headline to the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) You can make the argument that Obama flip-flopped on gay marriage. He took too long on immigration since one of his promises was to fix immigration problems. Romney still has the problem on immigration. There was no need to say what he said in the primaries. Don't know why he took that approach. Republicans for the most part do not have a terrible record on immigration. He is going to struggle with the latino vote which could cost him the election. Provided that Obama's struggles and self-inflicted errors with: Jews Catholics under 25 voters(staying home) The Military White Working Class/Coal states(PA, OH, MI, IA....basically every state anywhere near Illinois see here. The Cheese, and Illinois, stands alone... ) Socially Conservative African Americans(staying home) Disillusioned/De-energized Union Voters basically, at least 60% percent of Likely Voters...don't cost him the election first. Latinos: the last refuge of the wishfully thinking Obama supporter. Edit: Well, perhaps the gay/college professor/"professional helper"/socialist votes...are worth throwing away the voters that build the Democratic Party(white working class), and are the only reason why they have been elected to anything...ever. Nah, who needs OH, PA, MI, IN, IA, VA, MO when you can have CO, NM, NV? Edited June 25, 2012 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Romney has to be zeroing-in on Rubio as his VP. If he wants the Latino vote, Rubio would gift-wrap the presidency for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) So... Republican changing position = flip flop Democrat changing position = agility Got it, kind of like Republican Executive Order = Extra-constitutional abuse of power Democrat Executive Order = Compensating for a Congressional Intransigence Or Republican Executive Privilege = What are they hiding Democrat Executive Privilege = It's just a partisan witch hunt anyway Romney has to be zeroing-in on Rubio as his VP. If he wants the Latino vote, Rubio would gift-wrap the presidency for him. Assuming Rubio would accept. If I'm Rubio I'm not tying myself to Romney. If Romney/Rubio loses he becomes tied to a losing Presidential campaign. When is the last time a losing Vice Presidential candidate went on to secure their parties nomination? Mondale, but he was VP 77-81. Dole lost VP in '76 and ended up getting the nomination 20 years and 3 Presidential bids later, and we saw how that worked out Now if Romney wins Rubio becomes VP and history is not on the side of VPs elected to succeed their boss. IIRC GHW Bush was the first sitting VP to be elected to his own term since the 19th century. It didn't work for Gore in 2000, Humphrey in 1968, or Nixon in 1960 If Romney doesn't select Rubio and goes on to win, Rubio is the 2020 Republican Presidential nomniee If Romney doesn't select Rubio and goes on to lose, Rubio is the 2016 Republican Presidential nominee Edited June 25, 2012 by /dev/null Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Romney has to be zeroing-in on Rubio as his VP. If he wants the Latino vote, Rubio would gift-wrap the presidency for him. Forget Rubio. Condoleeza Rice. Puts a nail in every argument the left thinks it has. Racism. War on women. Lack of foreign affairs experience. Not to mention, if Sarah Palin can make Biden look like an idiot in a debate, imagine what Rice would do to him. Biden could be the first vice president in history to actually soil himself on national TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Forget Rubio. Condoleeza Rice. Puts a nail in every argument the left thinks it has. Racism. War on women. Lack of foreign affairs experience. Not to mention, if Sarah Palin can make Biden look like an idiot in a debate, imagine what Rice would do to him. Biden could be the first vice president in history to actually soil himself on national TV. ^This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Forget Rubio. Condoleeza Rice. Puts a nail in every argument the left thinks it has. Racism. War on women. Lack of foreign affairs experience. Not to mention, if Sarah Palin can make Biden look like an idiot in a debate, imagine what Rice would do to him. Biden could be the first vice president in history to actually soil himself on national TV. That'll last five minutes, before MSNBC reports that Condi Rice is a "white black". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 That'll last five minutes, before MSNBC reports that Condi Rice is a "white black". The correct term is Oreo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 Forget Rubio. Condoleeza Rice. Puts a nail in every argument the left thinks it has. Racism. War on women. Lack of foreign affairs experience. Not to mention, if Sarah Palin can make Biden look like an idiot in a debate, imagine what Rice would do to him. Biden could be the first vice president in history to actually soil himself on national TV. She's repeatedly stated she doesn't want it. She would be a good candidate though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Assuming Rubio would accept. If I'm Rubio I'm not tying myself to Romney. If Romney/Rubio loses he becomes tied to a losing Presidential campaign. When is the last time a losing Vice Presidential candidate went on to secure their parties nomination? Mondale, but he was VP 77-81. Dole lost VP in '76 and ended up getting the nomination 20 years and 3 Presidential bids later, and we saw how that worked out Now if Romney wins Rubio becomes VP and history is not on the side of VPs elected to succeed their boss. IIRC GHW Bush was the first sitting VP to be elected to his own term since the 19th century. It didn't work for Gore in 2000, Humphrey in 1968, or Nixon in 1960 If Romney doesn't select Rubio and goes on to win, Rubio is the 2020 Republican Presidential nomniee If Romney doesn't select Rubio and goes on to lose, Rubio is the 2016 Republican Presidential nominee I was watching Fox a month or so ago and Dennis Miller was on Bill O'Reilly. He said that if Rubio is the guy Romney really wants and he turns him down, even without it being made public, Repubs will remember and hold it against him in future elections. I tend to agree with that. Rubio could deliver Romney the win on a silver platter, and this is a critical juncture. Another 4 years of Barry could be disastrous. If Rubio is waiting for a sure thing, he'll never be ready. And if Barry wins again and sinks the country further, I doubt the majority of the U.S. will be voting for another non-white and/or non-Governor president anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 She's repeatedly stated she doesn't want it. She would be a good candidate though. Canned response. Rubio says the same thing. I read this weekend that she was at the Romney "VP prospects get-together" and gave a speech that brought the whole place to its feet. She's being vetted, and I suspect she'd take it if offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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