Billsrhody Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 No it's not. Welker - 122 receptions for 1,569 all in the slot. 4 carries for 30. 8 punt returns for 82 yards. 0 kick returns Harvin - 87 receptions for 967 yards in the slot and on the outside. 52 carries for 345 yards. 0 punt returns. 16 kick returns for 520. These players are used in completely different manners. Welker is purely a slot receiver and rarely used in any other capacity. Harvin is used in the slot, outside, as a ball carrier and as a kick returner. They're vastly different. So you watched every Patriots offensive snap? Welker never lines up outside? Welker - 6,279 career return yards Harvin - 2,609 career return yards How is Welker not relevant on special teams? Just because he didnt do it last year, doesnt mean he didnt do it his whole career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 But its more than just weed, and migraines (which are both a big deal) - its a temper and entitlement issues that got him banned from hs sports, and then showed up at UF too. When you look at his track record its SHOCKING he hasnt found himself in much more serious trouble, or that anyone would defend him. http://thevikingage.com/2012/04/10/percy-harvin-choked-his-receivers-coach-to-the-ground-at-florida/ Interesting. It does accuse your personal behavior but his coaches are a big part of the problem. If they are taking the proper steps to curb his behavior, they are enablers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I don't know. If I am the Patriots I get him and them cut Welker when his franchise tag is up next odfseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 He needs some Goody's Headache Powder Or, he needs a good slap in the head. When it comes to whiny piss-ants like Percy Harvin, the Bills would do well to heed the admonition of Fog City Diner... "NO CRYBABIES" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 while i think you are overstating the gap between the two some, i will agree harvin is a more explosive player and welker is a bit more reliable. different but not totally worlds apart to the point they cant be compared. but again stress that harvin comes with HUGE amounts of baggage. Welker sounds like he is a more reliable person, but Harvin would be Welker on steroids if he got to play with Brady. that said, he sounds very shaky as a person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) Interesting. It does accuse your personal behavior but his coaches are a big part of the problem. If they are taking the proper steps to curb his behavior, they are enablers. definitely an issue - and not one id expect brad childress to have properly handled in minnesota either - hence i referenced there probably could be more than just dollars involved (though i think its primarily dollars). With a track record like his, having the madhouse that minnesota has been the last few years (terrible inconcistency in expectations) couldnt have helped push him out the door. at this point I wouldnt want to have anything to do with trying to fix the issue while committing new dollars. Edited June 20, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Umenyiora resigned at the beginning of this month. He was very vocal about his contract issues for the 2 years prior and it was definitely a distraction in the locker room. He may have been a distraction, but it seems pretty obvious that he was a player worth putting up with the distraction, without him the Giants likely do not win last year's Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 So you watched every Patriots offensive snap? Welker never lines up outside? Welker - 6,279 career return yards Harvin - 2,609 career return yards How is Welker not relevant on special teams? Just because he didnt do it last year, doesnt mean he didnt do it his whole career. He hasn't returned kickoffs in the last 5 years, which represents 4,105 yards of your total above. He's not relevant in the kick return game, where Harvin is. Your comparison is completely skewed none the less. Welker has been in the league for 8 years and is 31 years old. Harvin is only 24 and has only been in the league for 3 years. OK, so say by example you think that Welker is the right comparison. Do you realize that he signed a fully guaranteed deal with the Patriots for 2012 of $9.515 million. Do you think to pay a guy with a boatload of off the field issues that you don't even know will be playing every week $9.515 million per season? You would have to sign him to a multiple year deal anyway and guarantee him a lot more money than that. I just don't see it. Regardless, the hyperbole of his availability is a joke. The Vikings head coach has already said they're going to sit down and that he expects things to be worked out. Like I said before, it's simply a pipe dream for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) Welker sounds like he is a more reliable person, but Harvin would be Welker on steroids if he got to play with Brady. that said, he sounds very shaky as a person. even on the field, id say welker (without seeing a great amount of outside film or knowing much beyond reputations) is probably more reliable. he seems to be a pretty good student of the game, a tight route runner, makes good reads etc... which helps him succeed. harvin (my impression) is a little less tight in his game but with a 40 thats 2-3 tenths quicker can run a bit rougher routes and still beat his man to the spot - but if i had to trust one of the two to be at the spot and on time it would be welker over harvin (not by a wide gap, or proven, just my gut reaction which may be skewed by my opinions of him as a person). that quicker 2-3 tenths will help get harvin paid, but the baggage plus migraine worries will make it very incentive based Edited June 20, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 He hasn't returned kickoffs in the last 5 years, which represents 4,105 yards of your total above. He's not relevant in the kick return game, where Harvin is. Your comparison is completely skewed none the less. Welker has been in the league for 8 years and is 31 years old. Harvin is only 24 and has only been in the league for 3 years. OK, so say by example you think that Welker is the right comparison. Do you realize that he signed a fully guaranteed deal with the Patriots for 2012 of $9.515 million. Do you think to pay a guy with a boatload of off the field issues that you don't even know will be playing every week $9.515 million per season? You would have to sign him to a multiple year deal anyway and guarantee him a lot more money than that. I just don't see it. Regardless, the hyperbole of his availability is a joke. The Vikings head coach has already said they're going to sit down and that he expects things to be worked out. Like I said before, it's simply a pipe dream for you. I think you're missing my point. When Welker was 24, he was a similar player to Harvin. He signed a 5 year, $18 million contract. If you can find a better comparison, by all means do it. The way you describe Welker's contract situation leads me to believe that you don't know whats going on with it. The patriots placed the franchise tag on Welker because they were unwilling to sign him to a long term contract that averages over $8 a year. They were unwilling to sign the best slot receiver in history to a contract of that size. What makes you think Harvin will make more than $8 a year? He is surely a slot receiver and surely not as good as Welker. It may be a pipe dream, but hey this is a message board isn't it? If we cant speculate trades here, then where can we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) I think you're missing my point. When Welker was 24, he was a similar player to Harvin. He signed a 5 year, $18 million contract. If you can find a better comparison, by all means do it. The way you describe Welker's contract situation leads me to believe that you don't know whats going on with it. The patriots placed the franchise tag on Welker because they were unwilling to sign him to a long term contract that averages over $8 a year. They were unwilling to sign the best slot receiver in history to a contract of that size. What makes you think Harvin will make more than $8 a year? He is surely a slot receiver and surely not as good as Welker. It may be a pipe dream, but hey this is a message board isn't it? If we cant speculate trades here, then where can we? welker is also now 31 and has a major knee injury on his resume, and doesnt have elite speed. there is some degree of differentiation here. and again, that contract is 5 years old. salaries have increased greatly in that time. i still dont know how you address harvins HUUUUUUUGE off field issues though. Edited June 20, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I'd welcome him for a draft pick (or package of picks), but I don't know if it's realistic or if we could afford him. He's a proven young talent, anyone to make the team better. I have faith that this team has strong enough character to keep people in check, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I didn't have time to do any real digging but here is some background on his situation at UF (all indications are that he was a problem there ...) Love me choke me toss me to the ground I think you need to read the entire article before posting it to help your argument. At the bottom it states that it is purely satire. Not saying your point is wrong (even though I remember any issues it doesn't mean there weren't any) but this is not pod proof of your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) I think you need to read the entire article before posting it to help your argument. At the bottom it states that it is purely satire. Not saying your point is wrong (even though I remember any issues it doesn't mean there weren't any) but this is not pod proof of your point. keep reading the thread. its satire based on a real event. Edited June 20, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Guy is talented no doubt, but this quote would scare me away, if I am an NFL GM: "I'm going to be honest with you guys. I've been watching tape, but it's just working on things from last year," Harvin said when asked about the offense. "I'm into it, but like I said, I'm not happy with things, so I haven't really been in tune to (personnel) and stuff right now." Of course, most of us are saying we don't want him...but we would be dancing like Ewoks if the Bills did get him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Guy is talented no doubt, but this quote would scare me away, if I am an NFL GM: "I'm going to be honest with you guys. I've been watching tape, but it's just working on things from last year," Harvin said when asked about the offense. "I'm into it, but like I said, I'm not happy with things, so I haven't really been in tune to (personnel) and stuff right now." Of course, most of us are saying we don't want him...but we would be dancing like Ewoks if the Bills did get him... any given sunday wed be a more explosive team, but any given sunday there could be an implosion. no thanks. instead of following the jets method of taking headcases becuase they are cheap to trade for and getting stuck in a santonio holmes situation I would much rather target the right type of guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Guy is talented no doubt, but this quote would scare me away, if I am an NFL GM: "I'm going to be honest with you guys. I've been watching tape, but it's just working on things from last year," Harvin said when asked about the offense. "I'm into it, but like I said, I'm not happy with things, so I haven't really been in tune to (personnel) and stuff right now." Of course, most of us are saying we don't want him...but we would be dancing like Ewoks if the Bills did get him... I'm confident in the character of our coaches, staff and team that we could handle one or two problem children. BUT if we can't, then I agree with others, I wouldn't want him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) I'm confident in the character of our coaches, staff and team that we could handle one or two problem children. BUT if we can't, then I agree with others, I wouldn't want him. what do you do if you hand him a real contract and he does go off the reservation? its a risky move at best. Edited June 20, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 welker is also now 31 and has a major knee injury on his resume, and doesnt have elite speed. there is some degree of differentiation here. and again, that contract is 5 years old. salaries have increased greatly in that time. i still dont know how you address harvins HUUUUUUUGE off field issues though. Yes he is 31. Yes he has had major knee surgery. But after that knee surgery: 2010: 86 rec, 848 yds, 7 tds (15 games) 2011: 122 rec, 1569 yds, 9 tds I think we can agree that the knee surgery is a very minor issue. I think we can agree that he will still be productive in his 30s. I agree that contract is outdated and probably isn't the best comparison. But doesn't the fact that the patriots are unwilling to pay him $8 a year this year tell you something about the value of small slot receivers? Do you really think Percy Harvin is going to get a 6 year, $50 million contract? I think he'll sign something more like 5 years, $30 million with $18 million guaranteed. I agree he has had off the field issues in the past. But since the combine he hasn't had any real issues. I don't think smoking pot is really that huge of deal for an NFL player. He's played 15, 14, and 16 games in his 3 seasons. He only missed 1 game due to the migraine issue so it really doesn't seem like a huge problem. He's proven to be pretty durable. Sometimes good players have some off the field problems in their past. It doesn't mean they can't change and it doesn't mean a team can't be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 what do you do if you hand him a real contract and he does go off the reservation? its a risky move. Trade him to another team for a package of picks, like any other player teams take risks on. It *is* a risk. But it's also a move that could put us over the hump. It's a tough decision. I'm glad I'm not in control of a football team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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