birdog1960 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I never heard that argument. admittedly, cheney's argument is obtuse and convoluted. but isn't the part about our military specialists going through waterboarding akin to the earlier argument? i'm not sure. the guy thinks in an alternate universe as far as i can tell. They have news shows on all day long. I'm saying to him that he should provide a link to a lie by a news reporter. Andrea Mitchell is supposed to be a reporter. I don't want stuff from Sean Hannity or Ed Schultz that tend to use hyperbole. you seem to want your fox. and that's fine, i suppose. kind like wanting your mtv as someone else pointed out. btw, i'm not a big fan of msnbc, either. kubuki theater to describe major network news...hmmm seems i've heard that before. oh, that's right, i said it in the bilderberg thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 admittedly, cheney's argument is obtuse and convoluted. but isn't the part about our military specialists going through waterboarding akin to the earlier argument? i'm not sure. the guy thinks in an alternate universe as far as i can tell. So does the author of that article. I don't agree with Cheney's "position" (more a random collection of statements)...but you couldn't find something written by someone more ignorant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Because for everyone's favorite TBD doctor, it's "us vs them" rather than actually being objective. look at the titles of most of the threads started here in the last few days and tell me the objective wasn't "us vs them". i'm not breaking new ground here. it's just that "us" is less well represented (in volume) than "them" in this particular forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 admittedly, cheney's argument is obtuse and convoluted. but isn't the part about our military specialists going through waterboarding akin to the earlier argument? i'm not sure. the guy thinks in an alternate universe as far as i can tell. you seem to want your fox. and that's fine, i suppose. kind like wanting your mtv as someone else pointed out. btw, i'm not a big fan of msnbc, either. kubuki theater to describe major network news...hmmm seems i've heard that before. oh, that's right, i said it in the bilderberg thread. All I mean to say is if you are going to make allegations about Fox then you should be willing to back it up. Backing it up does not mean referring me to a web site of the DCCC. What Andrea Mitchell and MSNBC did was out and out wrong. Show me when a Fox Reporter or Anchor ever did anything like this. Back up your claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 So does the author of that article. I don't agree with Cheney's "position" (more a random collection of statements)...but you couldn't find something written by someone more ignorant? i think the "both ways" observation is accurate. cheney wants to say that torturing prisoners was necessary but, at the same time, that waterboarding isn't torture. it's clearly a mathematically impossible stance but maybe not in some alternative reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 i think the "both ways" observation is accurate. cheney wants to say that torturing prisoners was necessary but, at the same time, that waterboarding isn't torture. it's clearly a mathematically impossible stance but maybe not in some alternative reality. Where does Cheney say it is torture? BTW, what do you think of Obama's humane way of droning suspects to prevent them from having to go through the evil circumstance of waterboarding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Because for everyone's favorite TBD doctor, it's "us vs them" rather than actually being objective. Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Yeah. I was thinking about this a little bit more. I can understand where in the news you may only have a few minutes for each segment, I get it. But that was a campainge stop. So I'd suspect he spoke for more than that 3 minutes or so that was on the first video. But for them to cut it down to less than 40 seconds, AND spliced the shiit out of it was pretty lame. LA's gonna get'cha!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Where does Cheney say it is torture? BTW, what do you think of Obama's humane way of droning suspects to prevent them from having to go through the evil circumstance of waterboarding? he doesn't, as far as i know. it's just that almost every other reasonable human does...and drones.; nope, don't think they're justified, obama sent or not. maybe you missed the part where many liberals are disappointed with some of obama's work. but in the battle of evils, he wins easily to us over romney or any of the other conservative candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Just a note since we love to put it all as liberal v. conservative...I'm seen as a heart string pulling liberal idiot here but I'm not enraged over waterboarding or drones. So there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 he doesn't, as far as i know. it's just that almost every other reasonable human does...and drones.; nope, don't think they're justified, obama sent or not. maybe you missed the part where many liberals are disappointed with some of obama's work. but in the battle of evils, he wins easily to us over romney or any of the other conservative candidates. But you earlier said Cheney admitted it was torture. Were you wrong then or wrong now? Just a note since we love to put it all as liberal v. conservative...I'm seen as a heart string pulling liberal idiot here but I'm not enraged over waterboarding or drones. So there. Think about this carefully. Would you be at all outraged if it was Bush with the "hit list"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Huh? Birdog is a doctor iirc Just a note since we love to put it all as liberal v. conservative...I'm seen as a heart string pulling liberal idiot here but I'm not enraged over waterboarding or drones. So there. What about motor-boating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 Birdog is a doctor iirc What about motor-boating? You're picking birdog over Doc as the most beloved MD here? That's like picking JA over Jackie Chiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Think about this carefully. Would you be at all outraged if it was Bush with the "hit list"? Considering I supported Bush through all the things that didn't even go well...safe to say no. I know it doesn't mesh with what I am supposed to be since I am no a lock and key Republican but believe it or not there are quite a few of us out there who said go into Iraq, then said ooops this is sucking, then said surge anyway got to do something, then said get out....etc etc...waterboard a few guys like we did?...not something to brag about but even if it was a mistake (which I'm not sure I even agree with) it was one I didn't get all riled up about...this is the actual world 3rd...tons of people out there who have views that mesh with both sides depending on the issue and then you vote based on the time and place and options running...this doesn't make for good "wedge media" but contrary to what you may see on TV there are actual people with individual opinions on various issues... What about motor-boating? have to say I am opposed to motor-boating it's just too babyish for the USA to engage in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 Considering I supported Bush through all the things that didn't even go well...safe to say no. I know it doesn't mesh with what I am supposed to be since I am no a lock and key Republican but believe it or not there are quite a few of us out there who said go into Iraq, then said ooops this is sucking, then said surge anyway got to do something, then said get out....etc etc...waterboard a few guys like we did?...not something to brag about but even if it was a mistake (which I'm not sure I even agree with) it was one I didn't get all riled up about...this is the actual world 3rd...tons of people out there who have views that mesh with both sides depending on the issue and then you vote based on the time and place and options running...this doesn't make for good "wedge media" but contrary to what you may see on TV there are actual people with individual opinions on various issues... have to say I am opposed to motor-boating it's just too babyish for the USA to engage in Well, I actually have opinions based on my own research and experience. I get schit here from some of the weaker posters that I just follow the "party line". They are weak and totally partisan. Because I'm for a strict immigration policy I must be totally against abortion? Because I'm against Eric Holder and his Fast and Furious program (along with many other things) I'm for right wing militias? NewBills, if we sat down and had a beer or two we would probably find out that we are 80% in agreement. The other 20% would probably have to do with entitlements and the nanny state. You say you have no big problem with waterboarding and "droning". What do you think about the big federal domestic drone program? This might sound disjointed, but we conservatives seem to always be getting painted into the same picture as the Christian fundamentalists. I'm ok with that if the typical lefty allows me to paint them into the same picture as the Muslim fundamentalists. This thread started out as me criticizing an MSNBC reporter for being a douche, and lying through her teeth. After numerous posts nobody could dispute that. All they could do is attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) I can have a beer with anyone I'm really not a confrontational person offline when it comes to this stuff and I like getting into discussion. My criticism of you from where I sit (at my computer and not at a table w/ a beer) is you are too passionate about the daily media war...that is to say the surface level "pure politics" and the media's "reaction" (which is really just functioning as designed...a for-profit wedge to separate American voters from each other based on things they are willing to pay attention to as opposed to things they should be forced to pay attention to). It's noise. It doesn't matter. And most of all it isn't surprising or interesting IMO. Now we can all discuss it from time to time but the line between politics and policy is eviscerated by daily cable news and hurts the important discussions we should have as a country and even creates a situation where people in Congress lose their damn minds too. If everyone would just fight the extremes in their own party (note: extreme does not just mean race centric people or religious fanatics...it means no-compromise "I'm definitely right" Congressional officials) and denounce them the country would be much better...but legitimizing the girly high school aspects of coverage from both sides is counter productive (I believe both sides are equally guilty...and respond to the other fueling fire). And the bottom line is people from both sides (and IMO more so on the right at the moment) could use a little humility. If ever you become so convinced you are unquestionably right about something...it should trigger some mechanism in the depths of your brain that alerts you to the fact you are probably wrong. Edited June 20, 2012 by TheNewBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 I can have a beer with anyone I'm really not a confrontational person offline when it comes to this stuff and I like getting into discussion. My criticism of you from where I sit (at my computer and not at a table w/ a beer) is you are too passionate about the daily media war...that is to say the surface level "pure politics" and the media's "reaction" (which is really just functioning as designed...a for-profit wedge to separate American voters from each other based on things they are willing to pay attention to as opposed to things they should be forced to pay attention to). It's noise. It doesn't matter. And most of all it isn't surprising or interesting IMO. Now we can all discuss it from time to time but the line between politics and policy is eviscerated by daily cable news and hurts the important discussions we should have as a country and even creates a situation where people in Congress lose their damn minds too. If everyone would just fight the extremes in their own party (note: extreme does not just mean race centric people or religious fanatics...it means no-compromise "I'm definitely right" Congressional officials) and denounce them the country would be much better...but legitimizing the girly high school aspects of coverage from both sides is counter productive (I believe both sides are equally guilty...and respond to the other fueling fire). And the bottom line is people from both sides (and IMO more so on the right at the moment) could use a little humility. If ever you become so convinced you are unquestionably right about something...it should trigger some mechanism in the depths of your brain that alerts you to the fact you are probably wrong. WOW, that's a post. I'll let you revel in it and read it again so you can edit it. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I'm sorry if you don't like my take on it 3rd lol but it is what it is you can disagree if you like. A quick survey of the front page shows: Andrea Mitchell Selectively Editing Romney Comments Illegal Immigration Takes Its Toll President Obama, The Biggest Spender In World Wow, Politico is Attacking The King Axelrod Attacks H.W. Bush For Playing Golf The Liberal Washington Post Attacking Obama Why Aren't The Leaks Bigger News? Healthcare Trade-Off Most topics of any poster and at least half of which are (at least titled/presented as) what I consider substanceless distraction. Almost all of which are designed to be hostile attack topics. And while you can pat yourself on the back for not wanted to throw women and doctors in jail over abortion most of your opinions...which you may well have formed on your own and not been spoon fed via conservative media IDK I don't know you....walk the party line loudly and proudly. This is what I see of you. Am I absolutely correct on this? Probably not...is it generally what I see? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I'm sorry if you don't like my take on it 3rd lol but it is what it is you can disagree if you like. A quick survey of the front page shows: Andrea Mitchell Selectively Editing Romney Comments Illegal Immigration Takes Its Toll President Obama, The Biggest Spender In World Wow, Politico is Attacking The King Axelrod Attacks H.W. Bush For Playing Golf The Liberal Washington Post Attacking Obama Why Aren't The Leaks Bigger News? Healthcare Trade-Off Most topics of any poster and at least half of which are (at least titled/presented as) what I consider substanceless distraction. Almost all of which are designed to be hostile attack topics. And while you can pat yourself on the back for not wanted to throw women and doctors in jail over abortion most of your opinions...which you may well have formed on your own and not been spoon fed via conservative media IDK I don't know you....walk the party line loudly and proudly. This is what I see of you. Am I absolutely correct on this? Probably not...is it generally what I see? Yes. Sounds like crusading to me. Isn't that frowned upon and ban worthy in the ToS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) All I mean to say is if you are going to make allegations about Fox then you should be willing to back it up. Backing it up does not mean referring me to a web site of the DCCC. What Andrea Mitchell and MSNBC did was out and out wrong. Show me when a Fox Reporter or Anchor ever did anything like this. Back up your claim. Not that I would actually entertain the idea that fox doesn't do this regularly and spend time searching for proof that 1 + 1 = 2 ... but since the thing literally presented itself to me right when you are begging for it ... and we are hear talking nonsense anyway...here it is a very recent example from your network of choice and one that is clearly worse:'' (video at bottom) http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jon-stewart-skewers-fox-news-for-using-edited-obama-video-to-criticize-immigration-policy/ Edited June 20, 2012 by TheNewBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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