K-9 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) K-9, they are called "LAWMAKERS" for a reason, and our country is going "FLUSH" rather quickly. If you believe this was Congress' most pressing issue -- especially over the past six years, when things have been B-A-D in so many RELEVANT arenas -- you are in a very tiny minority. Congress oversees federal courts, but RARELY gets this involved, if EVER. This was not the battle they should have picked. You have the right to your opinion. Disagreeing with it is mine. I'm refraining from commenting point-by-point because I have partisan views on them all, and that's what another forum on this site is for. If you want to debate me there, feel free. I've said mine here, and stand by every word. Nothing, other than Clemens playing for them. Just taking a cheap shot. It's a Monday; Guy's gotta have *some* fun. ~ BA No thanks. I think I got the picture. But just to be clear, this case never had one thing to do with Congress' oversight of the federal courts. Not even close. Like I said, go back some 10 years or so and acquaint yourself with why the House Government Reform Committee ever got involved with MLB and the steroid issue in the first place. GO BILLS!!! Edited June 18, 2012 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 In all seriousness, I would question how could it be dealt with at a local level if the drugs were being used and distributed all over the country. I may be wrong but isn't interstate drug trafficking in the amounts that it was being done a federal crime? Then the FBI should be involved, not Congress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) Then the FBI should be involved, not Congress. Rest assured the FBI is and has been heavily involved in steroid investigations. Along with the DEA. Neither agency had the purview to bring perjury charges against Clemens nor the ability to tell the House Government Reform Committee what to spend their time investigating. Edited June 18, 2012 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Wasted tax payer dollars on Bonds, Clemens, and Edwards cases. But, but, but...think of the children!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I'm pretty well versed on the roll of Congress in our government, thank-you. Perhaps you need to re-visit the entire process in this case, starting with why the House Government Reform Committee decided to investigate baseball's testing program and it's impact on steroid use among teenagers in the first place. Whether you like it or not, Congress does have an oversight roll to play. They gave MLB a ton of time and leeway to change their policies and MLB dragged its feet. This particular case became a "federal" case when prosecutors determined they had ample reason to suspect someone lied to Congress while under oath. It's their job. There is no abuse of power here nor was any Congressman required to attend the trial unless compelled to do so. It's in the hands of the Judiciary branch at that point. That's why it doesn't tell me anything when no member of Congress attended the trial. Not sure what you're reading into that. Other cases, like BALCO, etc. become federal cases for many other reasons. Like the interstate transport of illegal substances, for example. If you don't agree with what Congress's role SHOULD BE, as you put it, then write your representative a letter, start a movement, or get yourself elected so you can bring about the change you seek. That would be far more effective than disagreeing with someone in a football fan forum that doesn't share your point of view. GO BILLS!!! Sorry, IMO this was plain and simple grandstanding. Face time for politicians not only on the evening news, but ESPN, FOX Sports etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) Sorry, IMO this was plain and simple grandstanding. Face time for politicians not only on the evening news, but ESPN, FOX Sports etc. No doubt that by the time the first hearing was held in 2005, McCain and Co. were doing some grandstanding for the cameras. McCain had been leading the charge for baseball to clean up its act so that's no wonder. While that may all seem so plain and simple, what was occurring for the half dozen years before that was not. Long before politicos used the hearings as a photo-op, MLB had been warned that if they didn't revise their policies on testing at the minor league level, lawmakers would be compelled to get involved. Teenagers in the minor leagues were routinely getting busted with steroids and other PEDs. There was a lot of upward pressure on various agencies, both federal and local, to do something. Baseball chose not to even after repeated warnings. It may not be a big deal to some since we tend to view the drug problem in baseball as primarily effecting rich, pampered grown men. Government intervention, again at both local and federal levels, was a result of the effect this drug culture was having on teenagers in general and minor league ball players in particular. Edited June 19, 2012 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I think Congress gets its authority to issues subpoenas from the Constitutional grant that Congress shall have "all legislative powers." That's worth looking into anyway. GO BILLS!!! Yeah, I did look into it. It derives from a couple of Supreme Court decisions that say that "all legislative powers" requires Congress to have the ability to collect the information they require to formulate legislation...thus, they have subpoena power (which as far as I can tell is granted by no one other than the courts). As long as the subpoena was ultimately for legislative purposes. Steroids in baseball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Yeah, I did look into it. It derives from a couple of Supreme Court decisions that say that "all legislative powers" requires Congress to have the ability to collect the information they require to formulate legislation...thus, they have subpoena power (which as far as I can tell is granted by no one other than the courts). As long as the subpoena was ultimately for legislative purposes. Steroids in baseball? I had a feeling there was at least SCOTUS decision precedent if not outright authority granted in the Constitution. Thanks for taking the time to look into it. As for steroids in baseball, my assumption is that since the 20s the House Committee on Government Reform has been the principle investigative arm of the House and it has authority to conduct investigations into whatever falls under their jurisdiction. If steroids are seen as another controlled substance subject to the guidelines of the Federally Controlled Substances Act, then I can understand why they felt they had the authority. We can differ on whether or not it was a good use of its time as we can on nearly everything else Congress does/doesn't do. Personally, I think that since MLB chose to ignore them for several years, Congress was almost dared to get involved publicly. MLB ignored lawmakers at all levels for several years. They did so at their own peril. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I had a feeling there was at least SCOTUS decision precedent if not outright authority granted in the Constitution. Thanks for taking the time to look into it. As for steroids in baseball, my assumption is that since the 20s the House Committee on Government Reform has been the principle investigative arm of the House and it has authority to conduct investigations into whatever falls under their jurisdiction. If steroids are seen as another controlled substance subject to the guidelines of the Federally Controlled Substances Act, then I can understand why they felt they had the authority. We can differ on whether or not it was a good use of its time as we can on nearly everything else Congress does/doesn't do. Personally, I think that since MLB chose to ignore them for several years, Congress was almost dared to get involved publicly. MLB ignored lawmakers at all levels for several years. They did so at their own peril. No "if" - they're on "Schedule III" of the FCSA (whatever that means), by act of Congress about 20 years ago. Which itself is ridiculous - Congress, against virtually everyone's testimony (including the DEA, AMA, FDA, NIH) classed it with barbiturates like Ketamine, because Ben Johnson was busted in the Olympics for it. We, of course, can keep opening this set of matryoshka dolls ad infinitum without agreeing...but I'm still not seeing anything that says Congress is involved in any steroids issue for any reason that isn't time-wasting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 In other news, Clemens got faaaaat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 In other news, Clemens got faaaaat. He's a pitcher. He was never thin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 He's a pitcher. He was never thin. Plenty of thin pitchers, but you're right in that Clemens was generally stocky. Now he's got Robert Paulson level bitchtits though . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 So, when all is said and done, it looks like Barry Bonds will be the only one to take the fall for the "steroid era" in MLB. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Is he Clarence's brother from another mother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 In other news the Yankees have one ten in a row and are in first place in both the AL East and NL East....in fact they are undefeated in the NL East!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) These goofballs spend more time on bonds and Clemens than they did debating going to war in Iraq. Now Reid and McCain are co-sponsoring a bill to create a new federal commission to regulate boxing in light of the manny loss. Lol cannot make this stuff up! http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/259980/4/Senators-Reid-McCain-push-bill-to-regulate-boxing Edited June 19, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 In other news the Yankees have one ten in a row and are in first place in both the AL East and NL East....in fact they are undefeated in the NL East!!!!! When Pineda went down, who would've thought the Yankees would have baseball's gnarliest starting staff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millbank Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) These goofballs spend more time on bonds and Clemens than they did debating going to war in Iraq. Now Reid and McCain are co-sponsoring a bill to create a new federal commission to regulate boxing in light of the manny loss. Lol cannot make this stuff up! http://www.wtsp.com/...regulate-boxing will disagree with you regarding boxing... a complex process with likely many various idea's on how to clean up the sport, but it has been evident for not just years but generations it controlled by flat out corrupt individuals. Frankly if we scoff and laugh at congress and those who shape and make our laws, it entirely our own fault we do not hold these people more accountable as well. imo:) Edited June 19, 2012 by millbank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 2 words: private sector. Boxing judges have nothing to do with congress. What's next, Feds create a commission to "clean up" instant replay in NFL? Lol with how silly they are, probably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 2 words: private sector. Boxing judges have nothing to do with congress. What's next, Feds create a commission to "clean up" instant replay in NFL? Lol with how silly they are, probably Well, there is that whole gambling component to sports that one could argue makes it a Federeal concern. If we have legal gambling, it is silly to ignore all of the other implications that institutionalized cheating can have on many different levels. I agree, the steroid thing is kind of silly, but I don't think boxing should be off limits. Big money is being made, and collected. When the outcome of contests are manipulated, it can have all kinds of ramifications on more than just the boxing match itself. will disagree with you regarding boxing... a complex process with likely many various idea's on how to clean up the sport, but it has been evident for not just years but generations it controlled by flat out corrupt individuals. Frankly if we scoff and laugh at congress and those who shape and make our laws, it entirely our own fault we do not hold these people more accountable as well. imo:) Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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