3rdnlng Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 The private sector would cannibalize itself. Look at it this way... What would happen to society if we got rid of the public sector? We know that answer. A society that doesn't take public ownership, act as good stewards for the people. We have been down that road as a nation... It was called the cause of The Great Depression and the era before it. There are no mulligan's, both SOCIETY and the private sector NEED and WANT the public sector... Only the loons would want to go back to the days of company towns, stores and roads... We know how well that all worked out. Your twisted philosophy created progressivism. Blame your own !@#$ed up human traits. Just don't bite the hand that feeds you... You conservatives have illusions of grandeur that you can make it work totally without a public sector... That has been proven wrong. I bet these loons would be happy go back there: http://www.statejournal.com/story/18850558/arch-coal-closes-three-mines-lays-off-750-in-wv-ky-and-va Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I bet these loons would be happy go back there: http://www.statejour...in-wv-ky-and-va No doubt they would be happy... Dumbazzes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomato can Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 The public sector does not generate economic growth of its own, unless the government starts printing more money to pay the public sector. It most certainly does generate economic growth. About 6 months ago the City Of Chicago agreed to purchase 1,800 new Police vehicles from Ford Motor Company that are going be built at the Ford Plant on the southside of Chicago. Shortly after that announcement Ford added 1,100 workers & a third shift. All of those 1,100 jobs are private sector jobs. Looks to me like they are creating some economic growth for the private sector. Lets not forget that this is just the begining of replacing the cities aging fleet of police vehicles. Think some of those workers might want to purchase a new vehicle for themselves now that they have a job. The public sector and the private sector work hand in hand. I never understood the attack on Policeman, Fireman, & teachers. The Police for example, get a small uniform allowance from the city and have to kick money in out of there own pocket. Think the uniform store or the tailors that work there would be happy if the Police were cut considerably? Policeman are required to purchase their own firearm and they usually end up purchasing a back up firearm as well. Don't think the NRA & Smith & Wesson are cheerleading for a great reduction in the Police force. The money collected from property taxes & sales taxes are used to fund a lot of departments, the police being one of them. That money flows right back into the coffers of the private sector on numerous fronts. People get pissed because Policeman, Fireman, & Teachers are getting a modest salary, health insurance, and a pension. I don't know to many people lining up be a policeman for peanuts without insurance & a pension or 401k. How many people are going to run into a burning building for chump change??? Teachers have to put up with a lot of snot nose kids that don't listen at home or school. Guess what they are not going to do it for free. Oh and I forgot to mention in most big cities Police & Fire men have a residency requirememnt. They are the ones supporting to local mom & pop store and other small business with their tax payer salary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 It most certainly does generate economic growth. About 6 months ago the City Of Chicago agreed to purchase 1,800 new Police vehicles from Ford Motor Company that are going be built at the Ford Plant on the southside of Chicago. Shortly after that announcement Ford added 1,100 workers & a third shift. All of those 1,100 jobs are private sector jobs. Looks to me like they are creating some economic growth for the private sector. Lets not forget that this is just the begining of replacing the cities aging fleet of police vehicles. Think some of those workers might want to purchase a new vehicle for themselves now that they have a job. The public sector and the private sector work hand in hand. I never understood the attack on Policeman, Fireman, & teachers. The Police for example, get a small uniform allowance from the city and have to kick money in out of there own pocket. Think the uniform store or the tailors that work there would be happy if the Police were cut considerably? Policeman are required to purchase their own firearm and they usually end up purchasing a back up firearm as well. Don't think the NRA & Smith & Wesson are cheerleading for a great reduction in the Police force. The money collected from property taxes & sales taxes are used to fund a lot of departments, the police being one of them. That money flows right back into the coffers of the private sector on numerous fronts. People get pissed because Policeman, Fireman, & Teachers are getting a modest salary, health insurance, and a pension. I don't know to many people lining up be a policeman for peanuts without insurance & a pension or 401k. How many people are going to run into a burning building for chump change??? Teachers have to put up with a lot of snot nose kids that don't listen at home or school. Guess what they are not going to do it for free. Oh and I forgot to mention in most big cities Police & Fire men have a residency requirememnt. They are the ones supporting to local mom & pop store and other small business with their tax payer salary! So, 1800 new cars are going to employ 1100 workers for how long? Where do you think the money comes from to buy these cars? It's always about the Police, Firemen and Teachers but when the public sector drains money out of the private sector it's the little guy running a forklift or machining a part that gets hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Both sectors working together is symbiotic not parasitic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomato can Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 So, 1800 new cars are going to employ 1100 workers for how long? Where do you think the money comes from to buy these cars? It's always about the Police, Firemen and Teachers but when the public sector drains money out of the private sector it's the little guy running a forklift or machining a part that gets hit. According to Ford Motor Company it will take a few years to roll out the 1,800 specially designed Police Vehicles that will have the new police interceptor motor. That is just the beginning. The City of Chicago has 13,000 Police Officers and an aging fleet of vehciles. There is more vehicles that will be built and purchased from Ford by the City shortly there after. The little guy machining parts can expect to see a steady flow of work machining parts for the new police interceptor motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Both sectors working together is symbiotic not parasitic. Yes, the privat sector is the whale and the public sector is the remora. They work well together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Yes, the privat sector is the whale and the public sector is the remora. They work well together. Maybe... When gov't gets too big. Yet, there is only one remora in this case... The remora is not hurting the whale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 According to Ford Motor Company it will take a few years to roll out the 1,800 specially designed Police Vehicles that will have the new police interceptor motor. That is just the beginning. The City of Chicago has 13,000 Police Officers and an aging fleet of vehciles. There is more vehicles that will be built and purchased from Ford by the City shortly there after. The little guy machining parts can expect to see a steady flow of work machining parts for the new police interceptor motor. Any idea what these units are going to cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 It most certainly does generate economic growth. About 6 months ago the City Of Chicago agreed to purchase 1,800 new Police vehicles from Ford Motor Company that are going be built at the Ford Plant on the southside of Chicago. Shortly after that announcement Ford added 1,100 workers & a third shift. All of those 1,100 jobs are private sector jobs. Looks to me like they are creating some economic growth for the private sector. Lets not forget that this is just the begining of replacing the cities aging fleet of police vehicles. Think some of those workers might want to purchase a new vehicle for themselves now that they have a job. The public sector and the private sector work hand in hand. I never understood the attack on Policeman, Fireman, & teachers. The Police for example, get a small uniform allowance from the city and have to kick money in out of there own pocket. Think the uniform store or the tailors that work there would be happy if the Police were cut considerably? Policeman are required to purchase their own firearm and they usually end up purchasing a back up firearm as well. Don't think the NRA & Smith & Wesson are cheerleading for a great reduction in the Police force. The money collected from property taxes & sales taxes are used to fund a lot of departments, the police being one of them. That money flows right back into the coffers of the private sector on numerous fronts. People get pissed because Policeman, Fireman, & Teachers are getting a modest salary, health insurance, and a pension. I don't know to many people lining up be a policeman for peanuts without insurance & a pension or 401k. How many people are going to run into a burning building for chump change??? Teachers have to put up with a lot of snot nose kids that don't listen at home or school. Guess what they are not going to do it for free. Oh and I forgot to mention in most big cities Police & Fire men have a residency requirememnt. They are the ones supporting to local mom & pop store and other small business with their tax payer salary! Yet, the majority of the cash that the City of Chicago will use to pay for the new cruisers comes from tax revenues, so you have not created net economic growth because you just transferred cash from one party to another. That's the whole point of Keynesian cries of maintaining a floor on the economic decline. Which is a fine concept. But please get over the notion of the Keynesian multiplier which theorizes that a dollar spent in government stimulus will generate a certain amount of real economic growth. After three years of selling progressive dogma with deteriorating real economic prospects, Keynes can finally retire in his grave. And please save the sanctimony of police, firemen & teachers. Like anyone else who lost a job in this recession is less worthy of attention. I thought progressives cared for everybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Any idea what these units are going to cost? What's the cost of saving one human life? Maybe it will be your kid that some bumphuck town you live in decides to strike a contract with Ford? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 What's the cost of saving one human life? Maybe it will be your kid that some bumphuck town you live in decides to strike a contract with Ford? You took an economic discussion and turned it immediately into a social argument. Oh, and I live in a bumphuck town? How would you ever assume that? I didn't think toll booth operators did anything other than hold out their hands. Give ticket, take money, let machine tell them how much to give back, snarl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 You took an economic discussion and turned it immediately into a social argument. Oh, and I live in a bumphuck town? How would you ever assume that? I didn't think toll booth operators did anything other than hold out their hands. Give ticket, take money, let machine tell them how much to give back, snarl. What town do you live in? I told you what I do and how it is done, far from what you state. But I will play along with your untruths... It is kinda humorous. Call this a sympathy post. And of course I turn it into a social issue... That is what I do and what you should too, if you were a decent and compassionate human being. Now... Don't get mad when I own you. Take a deep breath and count to 3... It will pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomato can Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Any idea what these units are going to cost? In researching the price of the vehicle I will correct some of my numbers. The City of Chicago put in an order to purchase 500 of those vehicles with the plan to purchase 1,800 replacing a 3rd of their againg fleet. 1,200 Police agencies have placed orders for those vehicles as well. Bottom line Ford was able to hire 1,100 private sector workers. The vehicle reportedly cost around 30k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 What town do you live in? I told you what I do and how it is done, far from what you state. But I will play along with your untruths... It is kinda humorous. Call this a sympathy post. And of course I turn it into a social issue... That is what I do and what you should too, if you were a decent and compassionate human being. Now... Don't get mad when I own you. Take a deep breath and count to 3... It will pass. OK, pattern yourself off the poster from a tiny state. I was sort of discussing with someone else about the economics of 1800 cars being built by 1100 workers over what he said was going to be several years. I was just trying to figure out how that was going to work. You went all social on me. Does your toll booth manual allow you to question me when you should be ever diligent looking out for terrorists and remoras who might want to take your job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 OK, pattern yourself off the poster from a tiny state. I was sort of discussing with someone else about the economics of 1800 cars being built by 1100 workers over what he said was going to be several years. I was just trying to figure out how that was going to work. You went all social on me. Does your toll booth manual allow you to question me when you should be ever diligent looking out for terrorists and remoras who might want to take your job? Yes. While on official lunch break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomato can Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) Yet, the majority of the cash that the City of Chicago will use to pay for the new cruisers comes from tax revenues, so you have not created net economic growth because you just transferred cash from one party to another. That's the whole point of Keynesian cries of maintaining a floor on the economic decline. Which is a fine concept. But please get over the notion of the Keynesian multiplier which theorizes that a dollar spent in government stimulus will generate a certain amount of real economic growth. After three years of selling progressive dogma with deteriorating real economic prospects, Keynes can finally retire in his grave. And please save the sanctimony of police, firemen & teachers. Like anyone else who lost a job in this recession is less worthy of attention. I thought progressives cared for everybody? Yes it comes real estate & sales tax. Chicago is a big city and gets plenty of real estate & sales tax revuenue. They took the money and sent it right back into the PRIVATE SECTOR! You know the private sector, the only people who can economic growth, jobs, prosperity, and wealth for all! The ball and the money is in your court pal! The people that lost jobs in the recession don't need to attack someone that is still employeed. You make it sound as if Police, Fireman, & teachers wanted them to lose their jobs! The certainly didn't attack the private sector worker for making more money when the economy was good. Edited June 23, 2012 by tomato can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 In researching the price of the vehicle I will correct some of my numbers. The City of Chicago put in an order to purchase 500 of those vehicles with the plan to purchase 1,800 replacing a 3rd of their againg fleet. 1,200 Police agencies have placed orders for those vehicles as well. Bottom line Ford was able to hire 1,100 private sector workers. The vehicle reportedly cost around 30k. I respect your honesty. Do the math though. I question the 1,200 agencies figure. How many vehicles does that represent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Yes it comes real estate & sales tax. Chicago is a big city and gets plenty of real estate & sales tax revuenue. They took the money and sent it right back into the PRIVATE SECTOR! You know the private sector, the only people who can economic growth, jobs, prosperity, and wealth for all! The ball and the money is in your court pal! The people that lost jobs in the recession don't need to attack someone that is still employeed. You make it sound as if Police, Fireman, & teachers wanted them to lose their jobs! The certainly didn't attack the private sector worker for making more money when the economy was good. The discussion at hand is economic growth. The public sector does not generate net economic growth, because it's largely a distribution of income. The Keynesians on this site argue that the large public sector absorbs an economic shock because you will always have a base level of demand for services and that will prevent a depression. The idiots on this site will argue an extension of that theory, that government spending will actually create net economic growth of its own. Sounds fine in a textbook. But in the real world, that last example has been utter crap, because the public sector just transfers money from one pocket to another. But more importantly, the public sector has never been as good in allocating the cash to areas which will actually grow the economy, as opposed to throwing money at pet projects that have no economic return. And as far as the holy trinity of police, fire & teachers, the cost cost are coming in areas that are not affecting the effectiveness of those jobs. Crime statistics continue to fall. There are less fires. And the schools are still failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomato can Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I respect your honesty. Do the math though. I question the 1,200 agencies figure. How many vehicles does that represent? Were talking about 1,200 police agencies throughout the United States placing orders for those vehicles. Ford Motor Company is ecstatic. The renegotiated there contract with the United Auto Workers Union. Workers are no longer starting at $30 per hour, they are starting at $19 per hour with bonuses should production be good, plus the workers kept their jobs, health insurance, & pension. Plus 1,100 workers were added. The plant on here on the south side of Chicago employees about 4,500 workers. I did the math. 30k is a lot of money for a vehicle. Ford CEO pay rose 11% in 2011 to 29 million dollars. Not sure how many vehicles that represents. Obviously small towns aren't purchasing as many as a big city like Chicago but Ford didn't turn the work down, they added workers and a 3rd shift. They expect to be busy for some time making those vehicles. People can argue and claim its not economic growth because the public sector is getting the ball rolling. I tend to see it different. Ford being able to keep people working and adding people to the work force is creating economic growth. It gives people an chance to go out and purchase a home, buy a car, go shopping, invest in retirement in the stock market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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