Stephon Gilmore

[Kelly the Dog]

I posted something similar few times. With 20 wildcat plays with Smith last year, 8 resulted in first downs--but the majority of those (and the majority of attempts) were on 1 or 2nd downs--not 3rd. In fact, the 8 that were attempted on 3rd down resulted in only 3 1st downs. It was a complete waste of time.

Let's take a look at those 8 3^rd down plays that Brad Smith allegedly ran out of the Wildcat.

 

1. KC. 3^rd and 1 picked up first down. The Bills scored a FG on the drive.

 

2. KC. 3^rd and 1 picked up first down. The Bills scored a TD on the drive.

 

3. OAK. You probably counted this as a miss because you hate everything but it wasn't wildcat. Fitz was QB and pitched the ball to Smith on 3^rd and 23 and he lost 6 yards. There were 2 wildcat plays in this game where it was one play, a second down, when Smith came in. He picked up a first down on the play, and we scored a FG and a TD on those two drives.

 

4. PHI. 3^rd and 3 on last drive of the game. Smith was stopped one inch short (it was a terrible spot too). That set up the fourth down play where the Eagles were drawn offside and the Bills won. While officially a miss on 3^rd down, that play was a huge factor in the Bills win. Smith also scored a TD on the Wildcat in that game.

 

5. NYG. 3rd and 1. Smith is stopped inches before the first. The Bills go on 4th because it is close and Fitz sneaks for the first down. The Bills scored a TD on the drive.

 

6. WASH. 3^rd and 2. Smith gets 5 and first down. Bills scored TD on the drive.

 

7. Later in same game, there was a 3^rd and 1 where Smith came in and Fred Jackson had a false start. Then Smith came out. You probably count that as a miss even though it wasn't a play because you hate everything.

 

8. DAL. 3^rd and 1. Smith was stopped for no gain but no wonder. Dallas had 12 guys on the field. The Bills get a first down on the play. You probably count that as a miss even though the Bills get a first down because you hate everything.

 

So actually there were only 5 3^rd down plays in the wildcat. The Bills got a first down on every one of the 5 series.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Kelly the Dog

[nucci]

My Thoughts are ... Holy smoke we have really picked up some awesome players lately.

In regard to Gilmore, either Chan or Buddy( cant recall) said that we would not use him even as special teams player. I think that They think he is going to be one well of a cornerback. Thats what i think too. But the idea of him in the wildcat or something out of the ordinary would not suprise me this season. we have ALOT of options with the playbook this season with our players

Care to wager?

[mrags]

So actually there were only 5 3^rd down plays in the wildcat. The Bills got a first down on every one of the 5 series.

your missing the point. Either of our 2RBs could have fallen forward just as Smith did and picked up a First Down and we wouldn't have to waste a roster spot and $4M a year for a player that picked up less than 100 yards rushing and only a few hundred recieving. I've been on record of not being a supporter of Lee Evans in most rescent years as his productivity has slipped but I'd take Evans and his production any day of the week over B Smith. The wildcat is a joke. Get over it.

[Kelly the Dog]

your missing the point. Either of our 2RBs could have fallen forward just as Smith did and picked up a First Down and we wouldn't have to waste a roster spot and $4M a year for a player that picked up less than 100 yards rushing and only a few hundred recieving. I've been on record of not being a supporter of Lee Evans in most rescent years as his productivity has slipped but I'd take Evans and his production any day of the week over B Smith. The wildcat is a joke. Get over it.

So I guess you're smarter and know more about offense than Gailey and Nix, because they like it a lot, paid 16 m for a guy to run it because they know how valuable those short yardage runs for first downs are that keep drives going. I think perhaps you better get over yourself. The wildcat was effective last year and it's going to be used more this year. So get used to it.

[Just in Atlanta]

Yes.

 

If Fitzpatrick starts playing corner.

[3rdand12]

Care to wager?

On my being pleasantly surprised? Or me not being surprised at all?

For sure. a beer. a good cold beer. Have we a wager Nucci? I win even if i lose and you get a beer from me and also win.

I will need your address so pm me when you are ready to collect.

Edited June 11, 2012 by 3rdand12

[mrags]

So I guess you're smarter and know more about offense than Gailey and Nix, because they like it a lot, paid 16 m for a guy to run it because they know how valuable those short yardage runs for first downs are that keep drives going. I think perhaps you better get over yourself. The wildcat was effective last year and it's going to be used more this year. So get used to it.

Oh, I'm over myself. I've been good for a few years now. I used to be really brash and egotistical. I had to go to rehab to deal with my problems. I know now, not everyone can be as smart and talented as I am. I guess I'll just have to watch idiots running around, changing directions 6 times before deciding to just run straight ahead anyway. I'll just shut up and watch the $4M dollar a year waste of a roster spot every Sunday.

 

It's not the waste of the roster spot, it's not the $4M a year, it's not the consistant 1.5 yards a carry that annoy me about the stupid wildcat. It's the idiots that can't realize it's a waste in this league and always will be. If you've got Vick, Young, McNabb, Culpepper, Newton running the offense from the QB position that's ine thing. A half-@$$Ed, horrible excuse for a WR is a joke.

 

I'm not saying it doesn't get first downs. It does. It's pretty hard not to fall forward and get 2-3 yards though. Amy RB can do it. You don't need to male some stupid secret play for the crap. It's ALWAYS a run. I got fooled once by it tuis past season. It was a pass so far off target even the Bills sideline couldn't catch it. If the rest of the league continues to think this joke works, fine, I still think it's a waste. It hasn't worked worth anything since the Dolphins tricked the Pats.

 

Have a good night.

[Kelly the Dog]

Oh, I'm over myself. I've been good for a few years now. I used to be really brash and egotistical. I had to go to rehab to deal with my problems. I know now, not everyone can be as smart and talented as I am. I guess I'll just have to watch idiots running around, changing directions 6 times before deciding to just run straight ahead anyway. I'll just shut up and watch the $4M dollar a year waste of a roster spot every Sunday.

 

It's not the waste of the roster spot, it's not the $4M a year, it's not the consistant 1.5 yards a carry that annoy me about the stupid wildcat. It's the idiots that can't realize it's a waste in this league and always will be. If you've got Vick, Young, McNabb, Culpepper, Newton running the offense from the QB position that's ine thing. A half-@$Ed, horrible excuse for a WR is a joke.

 

I'm not saying it doesn't get first downs. It does. It's pretty hard not to fall forward and get 2-3 yards though. Amy RB can do it. You don't need to male some stupid secret play for the crap. It's ALWAYS a run. I got fooled once by it tuis past season. It was a pass so far off target even the Bills sideline couldn't catch it. If the rest of the league continues to think this joke works, fine, I still think it's a waste. It hasn't worked worth anything since the Dolphins tricked the Pats.

 

Have a good night.

Actually one of the hardest things in the league is to consistently pick up a first down by falling forward for 2-3 yards when they know you are going to run. Anyone who knows anything about football could tell you that. It's the reason 3rd and 3 is a passing down in the NFL.

 

Brad Smith averaged 4.4 yards a carry when everyone knew they were going to run. His career average is 7.2 yards a carry. He clearly sucks and is worthless.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Kelly the Dog

[billsfan89]

No point in putting out Gilmore as a wildcat QB when we have Brad Smith a guy who is pretty good at the wildcat can handle those duties. Gilmore needs to learn our defensive system no point in having him waste his time or efforts learning the wildcat for a couple snaps a game when we have someone that can play it pretty effectively.

[nucci]

On my being pleasantly surprised? Or me not being surprised at all?

For sure. a beer. a good cold beer. Have we a wager Nucci? I win even if i lose and you get a beer from me and also win.

I will need your address so pm me when you are ready to collect.

Let's have a cold one either way.

Edited June 11, 2012 by nucci

[3rdand12]

Let's have a cold one either way.

[bills7834]

Lets try Fitzpatrick at cornerback too. I mean, he can scramble, so he must be able to play cornerback.

 

Where do these stupid ass ideas come from?

I often think the internet is like driving in the car people say things they wouldn't say to others if they were in person. The guy was used quite a bit in the wildcat formation and on offense at a major college. I didn't pull this out of my arse. Chan likes the wildcat whether you do or not. If i had said will Chan use him as a punt returner because he had success on college would that ne dumb?

[mrags]

He clearly sucks and is worthless.

he had by far his second best year in the league last year. And he was barely noticable. I'm glad you've come to your senses and realized this. Now were finally done with this stupid conversation.

[bigc14120]

Actually, the kid from Georgia Tech is on the roster, and he also can play QB in the wildcat. So.......I don't think you will see Vince Young run the wildcat....that leaves Smith and whoever as wildcat QB candidates.

[Mr. WEO]

Let's take a look at those 8 3^rd down plays that Brad Smith allegedly ran out of the Wildcat.

 

1. KC. 3^rd and 1 picked up first down. The Bills scored a FG on the drive.

 

2. KC. 3^rd and 1 picked up first down. The Bills scored a TD on the drive.

 

3. OAK. You probably counted this as a miss because you hate everything but it wasn't wildcat. Fitz was QB and pitched the ball to Smith on 3^rd and 23 and he lost 6 yards. There were 2 wildcat plays in this game where it was one play, a second down, when Smith came in. He picked up a first down on the play, and we scored a FG and a TD on those two drives.

 

4. PHI. 3^rd and 3 on last drive of the game. Smith was stopped one inch short (it was a terrible spot too). That set up the fourth down play where the Eagles were drawn offside and the Bills won. While officially a miss on 3^rd down, that play was a huge factor in the Bills win. Smith also scored a TD on the Wildcat in that game.

 

5. NYG. 3rd and 1. Smith is stopped inches before the first. The Bills go on 4th because it is close and Fitz sneaks for the first down. The Bills scored a TD on the drive.

 

6. WASH. 3^rd and 2. Smith gets 5 and first down. Bills scored TD on the drive.

 

7. Later in same game, there was a 3^rd and 1 where Smith came in and Fred Jackson had a false start. Then Smith came out. You probably count that as a miss even though it wasn't a play because you hate everything.

 

8. DAL. 3^rd and 1. Smith was stopped for no gain but no wonder. Dallas had 12 guys on the field. The Bills get a first down on the play. You probably count that as a miss even though the Bills get a first down because you hate everything.

 

So actually there were only 5 3^rd down plays in the wildcat. The Bills got a first down on every one of the 5 series.

 

As I said, 3 first down conversions by Smith. On 3rd and 23 in Oak, Smith (a QB) was lined up in the backfield. He didn't get the direct snap but the obvious plan was to have him run or throw, as in wildcat. Your inclusion as 3rd down conversions the philly and NYG games a re a real joke--those were not 3rd down conversions by Smith. The 12th man on Dallas wasn't the guy who blew up Smith in the backfield (yet again). I'm tempted to give you the second attempt in Wash (Smith in and out) so you can cling to your argument with one less in the denominator.

 

"Hate everything"? What grade are you in? This is a game we are discussing. What do you know about hate?

 

Look, if you want to hold certain delusions, such as the greatness of the wildcat, to make you feel better about things--that's fine with me if it really helps you. But don't expect others to be convinced to join your delusion with posts like this.

[Kelly the Dog]

As I said, 3 first down conversions by Smith. On 3rd and 23 in Oak, Smith (a QB) was lined up in the backfield. He didn't get the direct snap but the obvious plan was to have him run or throw, as in wildcat. Your inclusion as 3rd down conversions the philly and NYG games a re a real joke--those were not 3rd down conversions by Smith. The 12th man on Dallas wasn't the guy who blew up Smith in the backfield (yet again). I'm tempted to give you the second attempt in Wash (Smith in and out) so you can cling to your argument with one less in the denominator.

 

"Hate everything"? What grade are you in? This is a game we are discussing. What do you know about hate?

 

Look, if you want to hold certain delusions, such as the greatness of the wildcat, to make you feel better about things--that's fine with me if it really helps you. But don't expect others to be convinced to join your delusion with posts like this.

I hate to break this to you, but when there is a penalty on the play, it is not a play. You learn that in fourth grade. I'm sure you would have given Smith full credit for a 50 yard TD that was called back because the Bills were holding.

 

If you didnt think the play in Philadelphia was an important and successful play, you're nuts.

 

And I hate to break this to you, too, but it's NOT A WILDCAT FORMATION when the regular QB is in the game and is in his regular position and gets the regular snap from center, especially on 3rd and 23.

 

Not to mention that there was an article today on Bill.com and a thread started here about the Bills wanting to use the Wildcat a lot more this year, so obviously they don't think it's a bad formation or idea either.

[KOKBILLS]

I often think the internet is like driving in the car people say things they wouldn't say to others if they were in person. The guy was used quite a bit in the wildcat formation and on offense at a major college. I didn't pull this out of my arse. Chan likes the wildcat whether you do or not. If i had said will Chan use him as a punt returner because he had success on college would that ne dumb?

 

No one would question that about Gilmore IN COLLEGE...But this is not College...And not everyone in the NFL who played option QB along the way is going to be able to do it well in the NFL...Add to that fact Gilmore is a CB...He is a player who was Drafted 10th overall to play Defense at an area of immediate need in Buffalo...

 

Also add to it that The Bills, unlike other NFL Teams, have multiple options at QB if they wish to run the wildcat...Thy may very well have one of the best wildcat QB's in the NFL in Brad Smith...And Vince Young is an incredibly gifted running QB...There is simply no need to consider muddying up the Kid's Rookie Season by adding him into a mix that is already pretty crowed, while taking away from his ability to concentrate on one of the toughest positions to master in the NFL...

 

It just makes no sense...No offense...But it makes no football or common sense...

[mrags]

Look, if you want to hold certain delusions, such as the greatness of the wildcat, to make you feel better about things--that's fine with me if it really helps you. But don't expect others to be convinced to join your delusion with posts like this.

just give it up Weo. The Wildcat people, trick play people will just never get it. Sooner or later either the dumb fad will be dumped or it will HAVE to be revised to succeed. I'm all for getting VY run it because I know he can pass the ball successfully. I'm completely against Brad Smith because he sucks. I don't "HATE" the wildcat I just think it's improperly used. You can't put some scrub WR back there and expect it to work accurately and consistantly. Someone like VY or TT might be another story however. I say another thread that said BS is practicing with only the QBs. I sure hope so if he's ever going to do anything for the team. But if we plan to use him like last year and he has another 100yard performance on the ground with another 20-30 receptions, we are being robbed of $4M dollars.

 

Maybe the question should be this to all rhe BS/Wildcat lovers...... Would you rather get wgat we are getting out of BS at that position or give that money to Levitre, Wood, or Byrd so we don't lose them when they become FAs. I'd be willing to bet not a single person here would take BS over any of them for an extension.

[eball]

Maybe the question should be this to all rhe BS/Wildcat lovers...... Would you rather get wgat we are getting out of BS at that position or give that money to Levitre, Wood, or Byrd so we don't lose them when they become FAs. I'd be willing to bet not a single person here would take BS over any of them for an extension.

Riiiiiiiight. Just like Chris Kelsay's "wasted" salary kept the Bills from upgrading the D line in FA and resigning key pieces like Stevie, Fitz, Fred, Chandler -- wait, it didn't.

 

If you don't like the wildcat and don't like Brad Smith, fine, but disavow yourself of the notion his salary impacts the Bills' ability to retain the players you mentioned. Otherwise you just look foolish.

[mrags]

Riiiiiiiight. Just like Chris Kelsay's "wasted" salary kept the Bills from upgrading the D line in FA and resigning key pieces like Stevie, Fitz, Fred, Chandler -- wait, it didn't.

 

If you don't like the wildcat and don't like Brad Smith, fine, but disavow yourself of the notion his salary impacts the Bills' ability to retain the players you mentioned. Otherwise you just look foolish.

I understand your point. I will concede to defeat. It doesnt negate the fact that Brad Smith is a waste of $4M a year though.bit doesn't negate the fact that the Wildcat picked up a few measly first downs in 3rd and 2 when a RB could have done it and not cost us a roster spit or any additional money.

 

I just hope we don't have Brad Smith in the game looking to throw a pass with our playoff hopes on the line come week 16 in a "lose and your out" type of game. And looking further, I really hope we don't lose any one of our good FA's next year because we have too much money tied up into useless players and positions.