QB Coach Lee: I'm going with the expert.

[billykaykay]

You need to watch more closely. Not just Fitz, all QBs. Stop following the ball and look at their feet and legs in relation to their upper bodies. Watch where they start their windups. See if they lower their arms a tad before releasing. Fitz has had poor mechanics for as long as I've seen him play.

 

He's got more than a strong enough arm, though.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Nick in RaChaCha]

I'm I the only guy here that thinks it is CRAZY that Fitz has gone through his NFL career without a quarterback coach that can focus on mechanics? It seems pretty stupid on the Bills part to not have this as a fixture in their coaching staff.

[yungmack]

I'm I the only guy here that thinks it is CRAZY that Fitz has gone through his NFL career without a quarterback coach that can focus on mechanics? It seems pretty stupid on the Bills part to not have this as a fixture in their coaching staff.

Nope, you're not the only one. I also think it's kind of lame Fitz didn't haul himself off to one of the coaches around the country that do this sort of thing on his own dime. Lots of QBs do.

[billykaykay]

I like Fitz, but even a non QB coach like me can see that his mechanics need work. Look at Breese, Aaron Rogers, & P. Manning. All of their release points are at the high point of their throwing motion. I think that the drill they are using where they have to throw over a 7 1/2 ft screen will go a long way to improving his release point. Perhaps, this drill is geared exactly toward the whole release point issue. Fitz is top 20. With good coaching, there is no reason this can't be improved upon. Go Bills.

[Chi-town Bills]

Fitz was 22nd in QB rating, just behind Tarvasis Jackson, Kevin Kolb, Matt Hassleback, and way behind Matt Moore. 2010 Fitz was also 22nd. 2009 Fitz was 26th. 2008 Fitz was 31st, he qualified for passing stats the last 4 seasons. He flat out has sucked, and is no where near Eli Manning, who is stone cold clutch.

 

You fail comparing Fitz to Kelly, you can only compare Fitz and his numbers against his contemporaries, that is all that makes sense.

 

 

22nd in qb rating but Fitzy, with a broken rib for the 2nd half of the year was still:

 

Top 10 in Completions (6)

Top 10 in Percentage (9)

Top 12 in Yards (11)

Top 10 in TD's (10)

And was by far the lowest sacked QB of any starter...meaning he makes quick decisions which is part of the reason of his high INT's.

[uncle flap]

I don't know why this is still a debate. Fitz has admitted himself he had poor mechanics, but focused on the mental part of the game as the best way he could put the team in a position to win. He has embraced Lee's coaching and acknowledged he's already seeing the results in his accuracy.

 

For guys like paintmyhouse who clearly have an axe to grind...we know how you feel, fine. No need to interject "he sucks" into every Fitz thread. We get it.

 

For fans looking/hoping for more consistency out of the QB position -- how can what has happened be anything but a positive?

 

:thumbsup:

 

Exactly!

 

However, if everyone agreed on everything, it would get really boring around here. I'm glad people's opinions differ.

 

For those of you like paintmyhouse who cite why think Fitz sucks - how about coming up with a viable alternative? Tavaris Jackson had a better QB rating. Awesome. Should the Bills go out and trade for him?

 

I'm not talking about what the Bills should have done in the past - e.g. "they never should've signed Fitz in the first place." I'm saying look at the Bills today; What do you do? IMO, any realistic move you make going forward is riskier than staying with Fitz for the time being.

 

Maybe that premise isn't fair, since the Fitz "haters" probably wouldn't have signed him in the first place, but I'm sure with the benefit of hindsight we could all come up with a roster chock full of Pro Bowlers. So let's look at the present situation and take it from there.

[Best Player Available]

:thumbsup:

 

Exactly!

 

However, if everyone agreed on everything, it would get really boring around here. I'm glad people's opinions differ.

 

For those of you like paintmyhouse who cite why think Fitz sucks - how about coming up with a viable alternative? Tavaris Jackson had a better QB rating. Awesome. Should the Bills go out and trade for him?

 

I'm not talking about what the Bills should have done in the past - e.g. "they never should've signed Fitz in the first place." I'm saying look at the Bills today; What do you do? IMO, any realistic move you make going forward is riskier than staying with Fitz for the time being.

 

Maybe that premise isn't fair, since the Fitz "haters" probably wouldn't have signed him in the first place, but I'm sure with the benefit of hindsight we could all come up with a roster chock full of Pro Bowlers. So let's look at the present situation and take it from there.

I don't understand how another poster can call out a fan and his fanhood based on a less than ra-ra opinion of the Bills quarterback? But, I believe Fitz was signed as a backup. I stand behind him as out starter for 2012 at least. He reminds me of another Bills quarterback who had a lot of fans on both sides of the fence. That guy was around before the internet tubes were invented. Fergy is one of my favorite Bills Quarterbacks. Tough as nails just like Fitzgibbons.

[eball]

I don't understand how another poster can call out a fan and his fanhood based on a less than ra-ra opinion of the Bills quarterback?

I, personally, have never done that. What I have done, however, is call out those who put absolutely no thought into their critical posts. Saying "he sucks, he was ranked 22nd in QB rating" or "he will never be anything but a backup" is not exactly the sort of stuff that spawns intelligent discussion.

 

I still go back to my post in a different thread, identifying three types of fans when it comes to Fitz:

 

1 -- he can/will be a top 15 QB with the right combination of coaching/tools

2 -- he's an adequate starting QB with significant limitations

3 -- he sucks

 

Nobody's mind will be changed at this point in time. The 1s and 2s at least view the Coach Lee experiment with interest and a somewhat open mind; the 3s don't give a hoot and just keep saying the same thing over and over.

 

Somebody explain to me why this isn't a pretty damn good overview of what we're looking at with our starting QB.

[uncle flap]

I don't understand how another poster can call out a fan and his fanhood based on a less than ra-ra opinion of the Bills quarterback? But, I believe Fitz was signed as a backup. I stand behind him as out starter for 2012 at least. He reminds me of another Bills quarterback who had a lot of fans on both sides of the fence. That guy was around before the internet tubes were invented. Fergy is one of my favorite Bills Quarterbacks. Tough as nails just like Fitzgibbons.

 

I hope that you weren't implying that I'm calling anyone's fanhood out, or even that I was implying eball did. That wasn't my intention at all.

 

My point, along with eball's (forgive me for speaking for you), is that if someone is going to criticize Fitz or any other aspect of the Bills, I'd like to hear that person's "solution" or suggestion on how to improve the situation.

 

It doesn't bother me if someone wants to say Fitz sucks and go on to explain why they think he sucks, it'd just be more interesting to me to hear what what should be done going forward.

 

I, personally, have never done that. What I have done, however, is call out those who put absolutely no thought into their critical posts. Saying "he sucks, he was ranked 22nd in QB rating" or "he will never be anything but a backup" is not exactly the sort of stuff that spawns intelligent discussion.

 

I still go back to my post in a different thread, identifying three types of fans when it comes to Fitz:

 

1 -- he can/will be a top 15 QB with the right combination of coaching/tools

2 -- he's an adequate starting QB with significant limitations

3 -- he sucks

 

Nobody's mind will be changed at this point in time. The 1s and 2s at least view the Coach Lee experiment with interest and a somewhat open mind; the 3s don't give a hoot and just keep saying the same thing over and over.

 

Somebody explain to me why this isn't a pretty damn good overview of what we're looking at with our starting QB.

 

Agreed. Like I said, if someone thinks Fitz sucks, fine. Now what?

[mrags]

Fitz was 22nd in QB rating, just behind Tarvasis Jackson, Kevin Kolb, Matt Hassleback, and way behind Matt Moore. 2010 Fitz was also 22nd. 2009 Fitz was 26th. 2008 Fitz was 31st, he qualified for passing stats the last 4 seasons. He flat out has sucked, and is no where near Eli Manning, who is stone cold clutch.

 

You fail comparing Fitz to Kelly, you can only compare Fitz and his numbers against his contemporaries, that is all that makes sense.

Well, based in your FACTUAL EVIDENCE, Fitz has risen from being ranked 31st in rating to just 22nd in rating in 3 years. So that means by law of averages alone he should be about 17 by the end of this year even without help.

 

I personally think the QB Rating stat is the biggest joke in the NFL. It has nothing to do with winning games directly. It's mainly based on TDs vs Ints which of course we already know what happened because Fitz threw a ton of picks last year.

 

That's not the argument. Fitz' has continued to get better, he has a major repor with all of his recievers especially Stevie Johnson. He has the respect and command of the team. He is the pulse of the offense and along with Freddy shares the load of our success on offense. He IS the starting QB if you like it or not. As I said before, he threw 24 tds and over 3,000 yards and that is enough to rate him in top 10 in QBs. He has led us to multiple comeback victories in the last 2 years dispute people like yourself that feel he is not a clutch QB. He has been very close in additional comebacks if it wasn't for failures by the rest of the team or bad luck. Jets game last year with bad kicks, costly penalties, and missed TD opportunities. The Bengles game with bad officiating (not that we shouldn't have ran the ball and killed the clock), the Pittsburgh game with a missed TD catch in the endzone. There are many more examples but these are off the top of my head.

 

That's not to say I EVER thought Fitz wasn't suspect. The truth is he does have to show it on the field. It's not crazy to think Fitz won't ever progress, I admit that. But for you or anybody else to say he never will is just as crazy.

[K-9]

Well, based in your FACTUAL EVIDENCE, Fitz has risen from being ranked 31st in rating to just 22nd in rating in 3 years. So that means by law of averages alone he should be about 17 by the end of this year even without help.

 

I personally think the QB Rating stat is the biggest joke in the NFL. It has nothing to do with winning games directly. It's mainly based on TDs vs Ints which of course we already know what happened because Fitz threw a ton of picks last year.

 

That's not the argument. Fitz' has continued to get better, he has a major repor with all of his recievers especially Stevie Johnson. He has the respect and command of the team. He is the pulse of the offense and along with Freddy shares the load of our success on offense. He IS the starting QB if you like it or not. As I said before, he threw 24 tds and over 3,000 yards and that is enough to rate him in top 10 in QBs. He has led us to multiple comeback victories in the last 2 years dispute people like yourself that feel he is not a clutch QB. He has been very close in additional comebacks if it wasn't for failures by the rest of the team or bad luck. Jets game last year with bad kicks, costly penalties, and missed TD opportunities. The Bengles game with bad officiating (not that we shouldn't have ran the ball and killed the clock), the Pittsburgh game with a missed TD catch in the endzone. There are many more examples but these are off the top of my head.

 

That's not to say I EVER thought Fitz wasn't suspect. The truth is he does have to show it on the field. It's not crazy to think Fitz won't ever progress, I admit that. But for you or anybody else to say he never will is just as crazy.

 

What you are describing mostly is the difference between being a passer and being a QB. There have been countless guys who could pass the ball and throw it through the proverbial brick wall but never made it in the NFL because they simply weren't good enough QBs.

 

And while I'm at it, this criticism of Fitz's arm strength has to stop. He's got more than enough arm strength to play in the NFL. Arm strength is the easiest thing for a scout to ascertain and can be done in 10 minutes. You don't even get considered for a tryout, let alone drafted, if you can't throw a long out from the far hash on time.

 

I see many around here cite his INTs against the Giants last year as examples of poor arm strength. That is wrong. They were examples of poor mechanics and touch more than anything. He has trouble throwing go routes to the left side of the field. That can be corrected.

 

But what's more important is that, as a good QB, he saw that single coverage and made the call. It's a pass he also hit a few times last season as well. I'm glad that he doesn't let a couple bad outcomes effect his confidence to go for it again.

 

He's a good QB with a few passing problems. That's a heckuva lot easier to correct than being a passer with a few QBing problems.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited June 7, 2012 by K-9

[Best Player Available]

I hope that you weren't implying that I'm calling anyone's fanhood out, or even that I was implying eball did. That wasn't my intention at all.

 

My point, along with eball's (forgive me for speaking for you), is that if someone is going to criticize Fitz or any other aspect of the Bills, I'd like to hear that person's "solution" or suggestion on how to improve the situation.

 

It doesn't bother me if someone wants to say Fitz sucks and go on to explain why they think he sucks, it'd just be more interesting to me to hear what what should be done going forward.

 

 

 

Agreed. Like I said, if someone thinks Fitz sucks, fine. Now what?

NO, neither of you 2 were my target. Football teams like most other things (politics, music, literature, comedy, etc.) will all have supporters and detractors. Honestly, as good as some teams are they are not fielding 53 all pros. Quarterback is a very important position. Myself I have criticized Fitz in the past. I support the Bills and Fitz let him play all 16+ games this season. I am not as foolish to think that a guy named Lee just because this year he is employed by the Bills will make Fitz measurably better JMO. Now, bring back the ghost of Bill Walsh and I'll get a bit more excited. Also, I'm well aware of Walsh's comments on Trent, that aside Walsh did not coach Trent in B-Lo.

[NoSaint]

im still amused by the fact that no one knew him beyond the wildcat when we brought lee on (remember all the comments on how it was a move for brad smith?), and now hes a certified savior and deep ball guru.

[eball]

im still amused by the fact that no one knew him beyond the wildcat when we brought lee on (remember all the comments on how it was a move for brad smith?), and now hes a certified savior and deep ball guru.

Both parts of that statement are gross exaggerations.

 

But then again, it's a fan message board, so what would we expect?

[NoSaint]

Both parts of that statement are gross exaggerations.

 

But then again, it's a fan message board, so what would we expect?

a huuuuge percentage of this board wrote him off as a wild cat guy, and after just a few quotes on him working on mechanics, he is the great hope around here.

[Best Player Available]

Both parts of that statement are gross exaggerations.

 

But then again, it's a fan message board, so what would we expect?

I wouldn't call them gross exaggerations. I've read some posts here in threads that praise him up and down. Funny thing is some of those posters probably never heard of him until he got here. Personally I don't believe for one second he's a quarterback guru. One of his students Romo has never even won a playoff game. Then there's a guy named Chad who had one good season under his guidance, if my memory is correct.

 

I see the same with Wanny. I'm more of the what have you done in the NFL lately crowd, and take a wait and see approach. Apparently Wanny did receive a full years salary and guest pass for last years tragic attempt at fielding a NFL defense.

[NoSaint]

I wouldn't call them gross exaggerations. I've read some posts here in threads that praise him up and down. Funny thing is some of those posters probably never heard of him until he got here. Personally I don't believe for one second he's a quarterback guru. One of his students Romo has never even won a playoff game. Then there's a guy named Chad who had one good season under his guidance, if my memory is correct.

 

I see the same with Wanny. I'm more of the what have you done in the NFL lately crowd, and take a wait and see approach. Apparently Wanny did receive a full years salary and guest pass for last years tragic attempt at fielding a NFL defense.

 

and the funniest part is how when first signed it was all about the wild cat and run game. there was a decent faction upset about the fact that we didnt get a guy that would do more for our QB and passing game as opposed to devoting more time to gimmicks...

[K-9]

I wouldn't call them gross exaggerations. I've read some posts here in threads that praise him up and down. Funny thing is some of those posters probably never heard of him until he got here. Personally I don't believe for one second he's a quarterback guru. One of his students Romo has never even won a playoff game. Then there's a guy named Chad who had one good season under his guidance, if my memory is correct.

 

I see the same with Wanny. I'm more of the what have you done in the NFL lately crowd, and take a wait and see approach. Apparently Wanny did receive a full years salary and guest pass for last years tragic attempt at fielding a NFL defense.

 

I don't know if Lee is a QB "guru" or not. Personally, I don't think they exist. But are you seriously going to argue that Romo, even though he's never won a playoff game, isn't a good NFL QB? And it's amazing Pennington had ANY kind of year with all his shoulder problems, let alone a good one. Besides, no position, most of all QB, is played in a vacuum.

 

And Wanny is back in his element. Blame him all you want for last season, but he's designing his defense from the top to bottom this year. He didn't have that luxury last year regardless of how much/little input he had with Edwards.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[eball]

a huuuuge percentage of this board wrote him off as a wild cat guy, and after just a few quotes on him working on mechanics, he is the great hope around here.

 

 

I wouldn't call them gross exaggerations. I've read some posts here in threads that praise him up and down. Funny thing is some of those posters probably never heard of him until he got here. Personally I don't believe for one second he's a quarterback guru. One of his students Romo has never even won a playoff game. Then there's a guy named Chad who had one good season under his guidance, if my memory is correct.

I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly don't follow the career paths of assistant coaches -- particularly beyond the coordinator level. I had no idea who Lee was when the Bills hired him, and was more concerned about why Cortez left. But that's what we do -- we read, listen, and learn -- and I came to understand Lee's resume. He's clearly a bit of an anomaly in the NFL, since you don't hear about a lot of other "technicians" coaching QBs. I haven't anointed him a savior, and I don't think I've seen many (if any) others do that. I'm simply optimistic that a guy who focuses on fundamentals and mechanics is working with a QB who has weaknesses in those areas. If you suggest that Romo not winning a playoff game is a reason why Lee isn't worth a crap -- well, that's just silly. Chad Pennington got more out of less than any QB I can remember. And oh yeah, Lee worked with Eli Manning between the 2010 and 2011 seasons.

[shibuya]

Anyone who knows football should know that Fitzy is the type of qb you want on your team. He played with broken ribs and still took shot after shot and got right back up. That is a man, a leader, a quarterback. Men will follow him into battle and he is a huge part of this team both on the game field and off.

 

All others, don't you get tired of finding something to hate with your "favorite" team?

 

 

that